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Returning to the HP fold
04-30-2015, 02:59 AM
Post: #41
RE: Returning to the HP fold
The timer is fine. I have used it in the kitchen (kitchen timers typically count down, my brain is happier with a count up version) and it is accurate enough for timing the mixing of ingredients. Wink

My big disappoint with the 55 is in regards to programming; it is so similar to my 25! Number of steps, what can be accomplished, NO continuous memory spring to mind.

Back then budget forced me to get a 25, and at the time it was fine. I even had it at work with a relay connected across the R/S switch to count machine cycles, worked great for that. Since I had no basis for comparison, the lack of continuous memory wasn't a big deal. Didn't even notice the lack of mass storage. Once I had tasted a 41 with a card reader, I never looked back.

A 41 with the Time module and mass storage of any stripe beats the socks off everything else.

2speed HP41CX,int2XMEM+ZEN, HPIL+DEVEL, HPIL+X/IO, I/R, 82143, 82163, 82162 -25,35,45,55,65,67,70,80
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04-30-2015, 03:31 AM
Post: #42
RE: Returning to the HP fold
If I remember correctly, the keystrokes on the 55 may not have been fully merged. If that's the case, then the 25 would probably be able to save more actual program steps. I do believe however that the 55 has more storage registers.

Bob
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04-30-2015, 03:48 AM
Post: #43
RE: Returning to the HP fold
And I didn't have a 25C. Turn either the 55 or the plain 25 off and poof, everything is gone.

2speed HP41CX,int2XMEM+ZEN, HPIL+DEVEL, HPIL+X/IO, I/R, 82143, 82163, 82162 -25,35,45,55,65,67,70,80
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04-30-2015, 06:11 AM
Post: #44
RE: Returning to the HP fold
(04-30-2015 03:31 AM)bshoring Wrote:  If I remember correctly, the keystrokes on the 55 may not have been fully merged. If that's the case, then the 25 would probably be able to save more actual program steps. I do believe however that the 55 has more storage registers.

Bob

Correct on both.

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04-30-2015, 06:29 AM
Post: #45
RE: Returning to the HP fold
(04-30-2015 03:31 AM)bshoring Wrote:  If I remember correctly, the keystrokes on the 55 may not have been fully merged.

I am wondering if one of you would provide your take on what it means to have keystrokes 'fully merged' and why that matters for programming memory usage. I'm assuming this is in reference to keystroke programming 'only' as compared with tokenized calculator languages like TI basic. Its just that I thought I understood what 'fully merged' meant, and I'm not sure now...

Thanks

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marcus
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04-30-2015, 06:58 AM
Post: #46
RE: Returning to the HP fold
(04-30-2015 06:29 AM)MarkHaysHarris777 Wrote:  
(04-30-2015 03:31 AM)bshoring Wrote:  If I remember correctly, the keystrokes on the 55 may not have been fully merged.

I am wondering if one of you would provide your take on what it means to have keystrokes 'fully merged' and why that matters for programming memory usage. I'm assuming this is in reference to keystroke programming 'only' as compared with tokenized calculator languages like TI basic. Its just that I thought I understood what 'fully merged' meant, and I'm not sure now...

Thanks

"Unlike previous programmables, the HP-25 had fully merged key steps... (All multi-keystroke entries like f COS and STO * 2 took a single step.)"
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04-30-2015, 10:34 AM
Post: #47
RE: Returning to the HP fold
(04-30-2015 06:58 AM)Steve Simpkin Wrote:  
(04-30-2015 06:29 AM)MarkHaysHarris777 Wrote:  I am wondering if one of you would provide your take on what it means to have keystrokes 'fully merged' and why that matters for programming memory usage. I'm assuming this is in reference to keystroke programming 'only' as compared with tokenized calculator languages like TI basic. Its just that I thought I understood what 'fully merged' meant, and I'm not sure now...

Thanks

"Unlike previous programmables, the HP-25 had fully merged key steps... (All multi-keystroke entries like f COS and STO * 2 took a single step.)"

So, just to make sure; the reason we have multi-key functions is because we don't physically have enough keys... but, steps in a program list is a horse of another color because we have plenty of bits to handle all the keycodes... so, 'fully merged' means that multiple keystrokes are not stored as multiple keystrokes, in keystroke programming, because they are 'merged' into the single function step that the multi-keystroke represents--- right? ... hate to be dumb about this.

marcus

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marcus
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04-30-2015, 10:37 AM (This post was last modified: 04-30-2015 10:43 AM by ElectroDuende.)
Post: #48
RE: Returning to the HP fold
(04-30-2015 10:34 AM)MarkHaysHarris777 Wrote:  So, just to make sure; the reason we have multi-key functions is because we don't physically have enough keys... but, steps in a program list is a horse of another color because we have plenty of bits to handle all the keycodes... so, 'fully merged' means that multiple keystrokes are not stored as multiple keystrokes, in keystroke programming, because they are 'merged' into the single function step that the multi-keystroke represents--- right? ... hate to be dumb about this.

marcus

That is correct. In old machines without "full merge" every press (even shift) took one program line. Well, not only old machines; HP30B does not merge keystrokes (in order to program an ASIN, you have to record all the key presses [shift-math-input-down-input, all this without actually viewing the menu on display] to enter to the math menu and execute ASIN [shift-math-input-down-input], all this without actually viewing the menu on display).
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07-28-2015, 02:11 PM
Post: #49
RE: Returning to the HP fold
Funny, I think I know for a while where I want to go with my collecting efforts, and then it seems I've changed the game plan too many times now to keep track of.

Is this typical for the CAS sufferer ??

2speed HP41CX,int2XMEM+ZEN, HPIL+DEVEL, HPIL+X/IO, I/R, 82143, 82163, 82162 -25,35,45,55,65,67,70,80
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03-10-2016, 08:35 PM
Post: #50
RE: Returning to the HP fold
. . . and now I have a 42.

Really didn't think I would venture into the post 41 era, but the backwards compatibility of the 42 was the clincher. I'm thinking there won't be any more machines on my list in that category.

Also, my internal narrative on the 'true HP successor' to the 41 is bouncing back and forth now between the 42 and the 71. (Obviously, post HP machines are just fine, CLs and 34s of course, and that app on my cell phone; WOOT !!)

2speed HP41CX,int2XMEM+ZEN, HPIL+DEVEL, HPIL+X/IO, I/R, 82143, 82163, 82162 -25,35,45,55,65,67,70,80
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03-11-2016, 06:25 PM
Post: #51
RE: Returning to the HP fold
Well, that didn't take long, as much as I don't really care for the 71, it is much more the 'true' successor of the HP41 (like the 41 can ever be replaced, LOL) than the 42 can ever hope to be.

I've enjoyed having an HP41. I've spent a lot of time with my HP41. My HP41 is a friend of mine. HP42, you're no HP41.

Smile

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03-11-2016, 06:54 PM
Post: #52
RE: Returning to the HP fold
Glad I found this forum. I have a pair of HP 17bII (the one where they added back RPN, but it isn't the + model) that are both at least 25 years old, and perform like new.

I had in college a 19bii but the batteries were a pain to find - those weird N cells - and expensive.

I hope these two last me another 20 years until I retire because it doesn't look like HP is really interested in developing these anymore. I never could get into the 12c for some reason.

No one makes calculator buttons like HP used to, that is for sure. :-)
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03-25-2016, 03:09 AM
Post: #53
RE: Returning to the HP fold
OK,

Brace yourselves.


I have a working HP41CL.

Thank you Monty !!


The transplant surgery was a little more involved as it turns out than I had expected. My really nice TK had a serial # a little too early and was going to need the capacitor addition, and if you had been reading between the lines in my earlier posts, I wasn't that eager to tear into that particular unit.

So, grabbed my emergency backup 41C TK machine, and it has the wonky incompatible connector inside. Well, poo!!

I also have a 41C I'm eyeing for 'parts'. Well, give this one a shot, and when I peeled the feet off, I became suspicious, and when it was all apart, it turned out to be a factory rehab unit, and internally it's a CV. Might explain why it is so wonky, it came with a couple memory modules in it, and I had added another, so that might be why it is wonky. I decided to leave that one alone.

Went and grabbed my CV, and looked it over. It is just here because my first 41 was a CV (long since gone bye bye), but it was intended to just be a display case unit, I was even surprised it had a square corner display as it was never intended to be a CL donor.

Well, that's what happened to it. And the CL lit up immediately with MEMORY LOST, and I'm not looking back.

Haven't painted the spacer silver yet, my buddy into model trains has suggested adhesive back silver colored metal tape to avoid the wear problems. Probably what is going to happen when I get time.


Of course, having a working CL here changes everything. 'Flagship' is still 'Flagship', but it looks like it will be a stay at home unit now, and I'll be taking the full internal XMEM on the road along with the GO App, and the CL.

First impression on the CL is amazement. Actually having that much ROM under the keyboard is quite a sensation of power. Looks like several of the ROMs have better versions of programs I have home brewed for my own use, and no pesky reloading from the card reader.

I think having the CL will also be the impetus to get my 9114 IL hard drive working too . . .

2speed HP41CX,int2XMEM+ZEN, HPIL+DEVEL, HPIL+X/IO, I/R, 82143, 82163, 82162 -25,35,45,55,65,67,70,80
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03-25-2016, 03:51 AM (This post was last modified: 03-25-2016 03:52 AM by Dave Frederickson.)
Post: #54
RE: Returning to the HP fold
(03-25-2016 03:09 AM)TASP Wrote:  I think having the CL will also be the impetus to get my 9114 IL hard drive working too . . .

Sure, you can copy LIF images from the FTP archives or Online LIF Project to physical media for use with the 9114, but a PIL-Box is so much easier.
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03-25-2016, 04:28 AM (This post was last modified: 03-25-2016 05:51 AM by Don Shepherd.)
Post: #55
RE: Returning to the HP fold
(03-11-2016 06:54 PM)ehans Wrote:  Glad I found this forum. I have a pair of HP 17bII (the one where they added back RPN, but it isn't the + model) that are both at least 25 years old, and perform like new.

I had in college a 19bii but the batteries were a pain to find - those weird N cells - and expensive.

I hope these two last me another 20 years until I retire because it doesn't look like HP is really interested in developing these anymore. I never could get into the 12c for some reason.

No one makes calculator buttons like HP used to, that is for sure. :-)

Those 17bii's will likely last a lifetime. I have a few too and really enjoy using their solver application for writing simple programs. The guys who wrote the solver were brilliant. These calculators were superbly engineered.
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