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Buy Now or Wait for Revision B?
06-19-2014, 12:38 AM
Post: #21
RE: Buy Now or Wait for Revision B?
(06-19-2014 12:16 AM)CosmicTruth Wrote:  
(06-18-2014 03:59 AM)MathMan Wrote:  Either way, I am now in the market for a new calculator.....
Also, I feel like I am becoming impatient. I have been waiting for the new hardware to be released so I can buy one, but it seems like it won't be out for awhile yet. Is it really worth it for me to wait, or should I just pull the trigger and by the first version?

Check out http://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-1654.html
I know about the different numbers, I just can't find one that isn't the first version
(I assume this is why you posted the link)

(06-19-2014 12:24 AM)CosmicTruth Wrote:  
(06-18-2014 08:38 PM)Tugdual Wrote:  May be the 50g is a better option nowadays.

Is the 50g backlit? I can't seem to tell on any of the youtube videos. I only ask because I often have issues reading the number in low light condition

The HP 50G is awesome also, it has many programs already developed for it, and most of the bugs worked out. I think in time the Hp Prime will be great, just have to get it out of the beta phase. : ) (and get some freaking user soft keys!)

50G is not backlit, and although it is a great calculator I wish there was more programs for it.

I figured as much.. thanks for the answer..
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06-19-2014, 03:21 AM
Post: #22
RE: Buy Now or Wait for Revision B?
(06-18-2014 07:54 PM)Angus Wrote:  But I don't accept to be responsible for not having searched for some emulator or background information from 3'rd party info.
No guilt implied, but that's the way it goes. Consumer electronics is crap unless a sufficient number of independent users state the opposite or you can try and convince yourself being wrong ;-).
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06-19-2014, 05:57 AM
Post: #23
RE: Buy Now or Wait for Revision B?
(06-18-2014 08:19 PM)MathMan Wrote:  Has anyone found a way to run the emulator on a Mac?
Wine could be an option for running the computer version of the Prime software (*). Works for me under Linux. Wine doesn't have USB support, so communication with a real calculator can't work; libhpcalcs compiled natively for MacOS X can do a number of communication operations.

*: strictly speaking, the Prime computer software is not an emulator, as it does not emulate the ARM processor and the accompanying devices. It's mostly the same code base as for real calculators, compiled for Windows/x86, with an extra UI and platform integration (e.g. named pipes for IPC) layer.
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06-19-2014, 06:21 AM
Post: #24
RE: Buy Now or Wait for Revision B?
(06-19-2014 12:01 AM)MathMan Wrote:  Is the 50g backlit? I can't seem to tell on any of the youtube videos. I only ask because I often have issues reading the number in low light conditions

The 50g is impossible to backlight properly. Even if the screen were lit, it wouldn't solve the problem of the keys and especially the keyboard markings which are essential for using it.

It ain't OVER 'till it's 2 PICK
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06-19-2014, 06:22 AM
Post: #25
RE: Buy Now or Wait for Revision B?
(06-19-2014 12:24 AM)CosmicTruth Wrote:  and although it is a great calculator I wish there was more programs for it.

That's easily solved Wink

It ain't OVER 'till it's 2 PICK
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06-19-2014, 05:40 PM
Post: #26
RE: Buy Now or Wait for Revision B?
(06-18-2014 09:39 PM)Angus Wrote:  I doubt you will easily find a better cas on android if you think about it......
The thing is somehow the prime was finished in a rush and all semi-finished modules seem to be merged without passion and having real work in mind. That is no offence.
Instead resources were spent into something like explorer apps.
maxima on android.

(There's also a pretty much complete release of octave as well, which is very close to matlab...)
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06-19-2014, 06:51 PM
Post: #27
RE: Buy Now or Wait for Revision B?
(06-19-2014 05:40 PM)cutterjohn Wrote:  
(06-18-2014 09:39 PM)Angus Wrote:  I doubt you will easily find a better cas on android if you think about it......
The thing is somehow the prime was finished in a rush and all semi-finished modules seem to be merged without passion and having real work in mind. That is no offence.
Instead resources were spent into something like explorer apps.
maxima on android.

(There's also a pretty much complete release of octave as well, which is very close to matlab...)
Indeed, much better than the Prime CAS.
And Geogebra for Geometry.
2 excellent applications for free.
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06-19-2014, 07:21 PM (This post was last modified: 06-19-2014 08:00 PM by Angus.)
Post: #28
RE: Buy Now or Wait for Revision B?
I will take a deeper look at these. Thank you.
In the prime the submodules are supposed to work together and interact, though. That is a great plus. At least if the interaction works flawless and the users are taught and inspirier what can be done. Well other topic I'm half way to the paperwork again.

P.s. The physical Keyboard and haptics mean a lot at least to me.
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06-19-2014, 08:06 PM (This post was last modified: 06-19-2014 08:09 PM by parisse.)
Post: #29
RE: Buy Now or Wait for Revision B?
(06-18-2014 08:38 PM)Tugdual Wrote:  you will find free CAS and Geometry applications on Android that are better than the Prime.
Just curious, can you point a free CAS app on Android that is better than the Prime CAS?
I don't think Maxima is better than Xcas anymore.
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06-19-2014, 08:09 PM
Post: #30
RE: Buy Now or Wait for Revision B?
(06-19-2014 07:21 PM)Angus Wrote:  P.s. The physical Keyboard and haptics mean a lot at least to me.

Completely agree.. As I said previously, I always seem to go back to my TI because I prefer using a physical keyboard
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06-19-2014, 08:45 PM
Post: #31
RE: Buy Now or Wait for Revision B?
parisse: XCAS is a wonderful and a complete package mathtool. All components are well integrated and work together smoothly.

This is definitely NOT the case in HP Prime. And that is the biggest problem of the HP Prime: No consistence! The HP Prime is a patchwork of HP38/HP39/HP39gii and XCAS

So, why don't you port the COMPLETE XCAS on HP Prime?

Thats the way you can get a great calculator and a weapon against TI and CASIO !!!
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06-19-2014, 09:11 PM
Post: #32
RE: Buy Now or Wait for Revision B?
(06-19-2014 08:09 PM)MathMan Wrote:  
(06-19-2014 07:21 PM)Angus Wrote:  P.s. The physical Keyboard and haptics mean a lot at least to me.

Completely agree.. As I said previously, I always seem to go back to my TI because I prefer using a physical keyboard
True for normal calculations but not for the geometgry app and regarding CAS you will want a plain 101 keyboard anyway. With the Prime keyboard you can expect:
- press 4 times average the Shift and Alpha keys before you find and lock the desired case.
- eyes bleeding with light orange and blue colors especially when light is low
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06-19-2014, 09:14 PM
Post: #33
RE: Buy Now or Wait for Revision B?
(06-19-2014 08:45 PM)Michael Wrote:  So, why don't you port the COMPLETE XCAS on HP Prime?

Thats the way you can get a great calculator and a weapon against TI and CASIO !!!

Unfortunately, just putting a command line into the calculator wouldn't do anything to make a weapon to combat anything.

If you haven't, this thread might be enlightening: http://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-1011.html

TW

Although I work for the HP calculator group, the views and opinions I post here are my own.
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06-19-2014, 09:26 PM
Post: #34
RE: Buy Now or Wait for Revision B?
Lots of solid arguments in here why I should just forget about purchasing a Prime. Anyone have another recommendation? How about the Nspire?
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06-20-2014, 05:28 AM
Post: #35
RE: Buy Now or Wait for Revision B?
The cheapest way to run giac on a calculator today is a TI nspire (*not* CAS, with OS 3.6) with ndless and khicas (this is a beta stage port of giac, more complete than on the Prime, since all synonyms are available, and it also has a few more advanced algorithms that I could compile with nspire-g++). The nspire CAS builtin CAS is not beta anymore, but its CAS is inferior to the Prime CAS and it is a little more expensive than the Prime.
The alpha keyboard of the nspire is very appreciated to enter commands if you know them. It is indeed difficult to write something on the Prime, because you must always lock/unlock the alpha keyboard, unlike on the 50. On the other hand, the touchscreen on the Prime is very useful.
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06-20-2014, 08:56 AM
Post: #36
RE: Buy Now or Wait for Revision B?
@Tim, @Parisse:

I don't understand all details in the mentioned posting:
http://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-1011.html

But i have only one question:

Is it
a) possible but difficult or
b) IMpossible
to port the whole XCAS on HP Prime?
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06-20-2014, 09:32 AM
Post: #37
RE: Buy Now or Wait for Revision B?
I'm not sure to understand what you mean by porting the whole Xcas to the Prime. I guess you are not speaking of the UI, but of the giac computing kernel. The giac port is almost complete, except part of the code for fast multivariate polynomial operations (it seems it does not like proprietary compilers). The optional GPL libraries addins that you get inside Xcas can not be used in a proprietary application, you won't get PARI functions on the Prime for example. That should not be a real limitation, because they are useful for very advanced maths or giac has its own function, perhaps not as optimized, but you won't see the difference on a calc (for example I don't think many users would really benefit from PARI advanced polynomial rooter that is much faster than giac for polynomials of degree a few hundreds with integer coefficients having a few hundreds digits).
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06-20-2014, 09:35 AM (This post was last modified: 06-20-2014 10:19 AM by debrouxl.)
Post: #38
RE: Buy Now or Wait for Revision B?
Out of the box, the Prime does not support running native code. So far, nobody has posted a PoC for running arbitrary native code on the Prime, or ported Linux to the Prime - unlike the TI-Nspire, the Prime is based on a publicly documented SoC for which Linux already has good support. The most advanced stuff was a modification of strings in the Prime's firmware, by critor and I, on TI-Planet.

It's possible to port giac to the Prime, and make a special UI tailored to the Prime; but it takes some work, and nobody has yet started the path to native code execution on the Prime (or told publicly about it).
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06-20-2014, 10:30 AM
Post: #39
RE: Buy Now or Wait for Revision B?
(06-20-2014 09:35 AM)debrouxl Wrote:  It's possible to port giac to the Prime, and make a special UI tailored to the Prime; but it takes some work, and nobody has yet started the path to native code execution on the Prime.
And this is exactly the only solution for a powerful calculator and the only way for the HP Prime.

The HP Prime is a patchwork based on HP38/39 and mixed with the XCAS. This was the fastest and easiest way. The result is a "leightweight", controversial and inconsistent calculator.

If you want a serios and powerful calculator "IT TAKES SOME WORK". And this work has to be done by HP, Jason, Tim, Cyrille and Parisse. It's your decision!

Less work: leightweight and inconsistent
hard work: serious and powerful

No harm meant!
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06-20-2014, 10:39 AM
Post: #40
RE: Buy Now or Wait for Revision B?
The work of somehow executing arbitrary native code on the Prime can't be done by the HP folks for obvious reasons, and Bernard Parisse has lots of other things on his plate already Smile
It would best be done by other third parties, like you and me. But that requires time, skill, interest, and having a real HP Prime calculator (I didn't, until two days ago).
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