Post Reply 
HP-65/67 Instructions in HP-41?
12-18-2015, 01:14 PM (This post was last modified: 12-18-2015 03:36 PM by toml_12953.)
Post: #1
HP-65/67 Instructions in HP-41?
In the description for the HP-41's card reader peripheral, it says that HP-65/67 program cards can be read and the programs converted to HP-41 code. It even translates some 65/67 functions not normally available to 41 programmers (it doesn't say which ones). Is there any way to use those 65/67 instructions without a card reader (I'm thinking DM-41L)? If so, what are they and how do I enter them?

OK, I found a complete card reader manual that lists the additional instructions. Unfortunately, they can only be executed when the card reader is attached. Without the card reader, the NONEXISTANT error shows up. Sad


Tom Lake
"Aut viam inveniam aut faciam"
I will either find a way or make one.

Tom L
...other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, what did you think of the play?
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
12-18-2015, 03:42 PM
Post: #2
RE: HP-65/67 Instructions in HP-41?
If you had a Clonix/NoV or a 41CL, you could load the card reader ROM and make use of these functions. Which programs were you wanting to load and run? Most of the HP library 67/97 programs have already been translated and placed online in various repositories.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
12-18-2015, 03:45 PM
Post: #3
RE: HP-65/67 Instructions in HP-41?
This was found on the museum site:

HP 41 card reader instruction thread
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
12-18-2015, 07:48 PM (This post was last modified: 12-18-2015 07:58 PM by Dieter.)
Post: #4
RE: HP-65/67 Instructions in HP-41?
(12-18-2015 01:14 PM)toml_12953 Wrote:  OK, I found a complete card reader manual that lists the additional instructions. Unfortunately, they can only be executed when the card reader is attached. Without the card reader, the NONEXISTANT error shows up. Sad

Yes, of course. Want a printer function? Get the printer. Want a card reader function? Get the card reader. ;-)

The 67/97 compatibility functions of the card reader are required if program cards of these older models are read into the '41. These programs may contain commands the 41 handles differently – or it doesn't offer them at all. So these special commands are only required if such a 67/97 card is read. That's why they are part of the card reader ROM.

If you do not have a 67/97 program card but a 67/97 program listing, these commands are usually not required. In most cases such programs can be modified for the 41, and they may even take advantage of the 41's more advanced function set. On the other hand, a literal translation of a 67/97 program usually is not a good idea.

The 67/97 compatibility functions all start with a 7.
Let's take a closer look:

7DSP0...7DSP9 set the number of digits while the display mode is left unchanged. Their counterparts 7FIX, 7SCI and 7ENG change the mode only while the umber of digits is left as it is. This is the way the 67 and 97 handle their display settings – you need two commands where most other HPs require just one: instead of 7FIX 7DSP4 you simply use FIX 4 on the 41.

7DSZ and 7ISZ are simplified versions of DSE and ISG which can do much more. In most cases programs with these commands can be modified so that DSE/ISG can be used.

7CLREG clears registers 0...9 and A-E + I (20...25). So, to clear all data registers, CLREG, P<>S (see below) and another CLREG is required.

7P<>S exchanges registers 0...9 with S0...S9 (10...19). This command is required to access the secondary data registers. On a 41 this kind of memory swap usually is not required as registers up to 99 can be accessed directly.

7PRTX, 7PRREG and 7PRSTK are print commands that are also available on the non-printing 67. Here they display the respective values with a long pause (about 3 seconds when used on a 41).

So, all in all, there are few cases where these 67/97 commands really add useful functionality. They are there because the 67/97 handles some things differently from the 41, mostly not quite as elegant or straightforward. In 35 years of HP41 programming I have not used one of these commands yet (although I own the card reader).

Wait... no: I used P<>S once for a special purpose. At that time I did not own the X-Functions ROM yet where REGSWAP can do the same (and much more). ;-)

Dieter
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
12-18-2015, 08:00 PM
Post: #5
RE: HP-65/67 Instructions in HP-41?
(12-18-2015 07:48 PM)Dieter Wrote:  
(12-18-2015 01:14 PM)toml_12953 Wrote:  OK, I found a complete card reader manual that lists the additional instructions. Unfortunately, they can only be executed when the card reader is attached. Without the card reader, the NONEXISTANT error shows up. Sad

Yes, of course. Want a printer function? Get the printer. Want a card reader function? Get the card reader. ;-)

Dieter

I should have made it clear. I'm using a DM-41L which has no ports for peripherals.

Tom L

Tom L
...other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, what did you think of the play?
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
12-18-2015, 08:06 PM (This post was last modified: 12-18-2015 08:10 PM by Dieter.)
Post: #6
RE: HP-65/67 Instructions in HP-41?
(12-18-2015 08:00 PM)toml_12953 Wrote:  I should have made it clear. I'm using a DM-41L which has no ports for peripherals.

Ah, OK – this means you will not have to read HP67/97 program cards, thus no compatibility functions are required.

BTW, the subject refers to "HP-65/67 instructions". There are no HP65 instructions in the card reader ROM. Also HP65 cards cannot be read. But there is a kind of "HP65 compatibility command" inside the HP41 ROM itself: unlike the 67/97 it features OCT and DEC. ;-)

Dieter
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
12-19-2015, 05:08 AM
Post: #7
RE: HP-65/67 Instructions in HP-41?
(12-18-2015 07:48 PM)Dieter Wrote:  Want a printer function? Get the printer. Want a card reader function? Get the card reader. ;-)
.....
. On the other hand, a literal translation of a 67/97 program usually is not a good idea.
.....
Wait... no: I used P<>S once for a special purpose. At that time I did not own the X-Functions ROM yet where REGSWAP can do the same (and much more). ;-)

Excellent summary and very good rundown & recommendations - I see your math prowess are well matched by your 41 skills !
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
12-19-2015, 09:03 AM
Post: #8
RE: HP-65/67 Instructions in HP-41?
(12-18-2015 08:06 PM)Dieter Wrote:  
(12-18-2015 08:00 PM)toml_12953 Wrote:  I should have made it clear. I'm using a DM-41L which has no ports for peripherals.

Ah, OK – this means you will not have to read HP67/97 program cards, thus no compatibility functions are required.

Dieter

I do need them. The programs I'm entering are printed listings made from a 41CX that had a card reader attached and used the extra functions.

Tom L

Tom L
...other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, what did you think of the play?
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
12-19-2015, 10:12 AM
Post: #9
RE: HP-65/67 Instructions in HP-41?
(12-19-2015 09:03 AM)toml_12953 Wrote:  I do need them. The programs I'm entering are printed listings made from a 41CX that had a card reader attached and used the extra functions.

You don't. Simply rewrite the program so that it uses HP41 instructions.
If compatibility functions are required it's a translated 67/97 program. And most probably it does not perform how a dedicated 41 program could.

Maybe you can post an example here.

Dieter
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)