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HP-35S Bug List Bug?
03-12-2015, 12:40 PM (This post was last modified: 03-12-2015 12:41 PM by toml_12953.)
Post: #1
HP-35S Bug List Bug?
According to entry # 15 of the bug list at

http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/...i?read=735

Code:
A001  LBL A
A002  SF 10
A003  LOCKUP DEMO
A004  0
A005  GTO A004

should lock up the calculator. On mine, pressing ON stops the program as usual and there are no ill effects that I can see. Are there different versions of the 35S ROM? I preordered mine so I got a very early model.

Tom L

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03-12-2015, 01:02 PM
Post: #2
RE: HP-35S Bug List Bug?
Can't try, too much content is at stake. But I'm curious about your serial number. Here's a list of known S/Ns.
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03-12-2015, 01:33 PM
Post: #3
RE: HP-35S Bug List Bug?
(03-12-2015 12:40 PM)toml_12953 Wrote:  On mine, pressing ON stops the program as usual and there are no ill effects that I can see. Are there different versions of the 35S ROM? I preordered mine so I got a very early model.

For a "successful lockup" you may try GTO A005. Numbers in programs are executed relatively slow, while a GTO to its own line number is as fast as it gets.

In general, I can confirm there is a lockup issue with the 35s. When it occured the first time I lost its complete memory due to the neccessary hard reset. It's an early model as well, bought in September 2007.

Dieter
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03-12-2015, 02:38 PM
Post: #4
RE: HP-35S Bug List Bug?
(03-12-2015 01:02 PM)Thomas Radtke Wrote:  Can't try, too much content is at stake. But I'm curious about your serial number. Here's a list of known S/Ns.

I have CNA 72104142 which isn't as low as I thought it would be.

Tom L

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03-12-2015, 02:42 PM
Post: #5
RE: HP-35S Bug List Bug?
(03-12-2015 01:33 PM)Dieter Wrote:  
(03-12-2015 12:40 PM)toml_12953 Wrote:  On mine, pressing ON stops the program as usual and there are no ill effects that I can see. Are there different versions of the 35S ROM? I preordered mine so I got a very early model.

For a "successful lockup" you may try GTO A005. Numbers in programs are executed relatively slow, while a GTO to its own line number is as fast as it gets.

In general, I can confirm there is a lockup issue with the 35s. When it occured the first time I lost its complete memory due to the neccessary hard reset. It's an early model as well, bought in September 2007.

Dieter

Even with GTO A005, the calculator halts when I press C. I have fresh batteries in it so I'm pretty sure it's running up to speed.

Tom L

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03-12-2015, 04:15 PM
Post: #6
RE: HP-35S Bug List Bug?
(03-12-2015 02:42 PM)toml_12953 Wrote:  
(03-12-2015 01:33 PM)Dieter Wrote:  For a "successful lockup" you may try GTO A005. Numbers in programs are executed relatively slow, while a GTO to its own line number is as fast as it gets.

In general, I can confirm there is a lockup issue with the 35s. When it occured the first time I lost its complete memory due to the neccessary hard reset. It's an early model as well, bought in September 2007.

Dieter

Even with GTO A005, the calculator halts when I press C. I have fresh batteries in it so I'm pretty sure it's running up to speed.

Tom L

I can confirm this. S/N CNA73400665

Günter
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03-12-2015, 04:45 PM
Post: #7
RE: HP-35S Bug List Bug?
(03-12-2015 02:42 PM)toml_12953 Wrote:  Even with GTO A005, the calculator halts when I press C. I have fresh batteries in it so I'm pretty sure it's running up to speed.
Tom L

Does the display show the "RUNNING" message after you press R/S to start the program after the "LOCKUP DEMO" message is displayed?

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03-12-2015, 04:54 PM (This post was last modified: 03-12-2015 05:01 PM by Tugdual.)
Post: #8
RE: HP-35S Bug List Bug?
C also working fine on my 35S.
Bug is becoming questionable.

Edit: C is working but R/S is the killer. Got this bug. Don't test if you want to preserve memory, got batteries on the desk just now...
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03-12-2015, 05:11 PM
Post: #9
RE: HP-35S Bug List Bug?
(03-12-2015 04:45 PM)Jeff O. Wrote:  
(03-12-2015 02:42 PM)toml_12953 Wrote:  Even with GTO A005, the calculator halts when I press C. I have fresh batteries in it so I'm pretty sure it's running up to speed.
Tom L

Does the display show the "RUNNING" message after you press R/S to start the program after the "LOCKUP DEMO" message is displayed?

That depends on where the program counter is when you press R/S. If its at the TOP "Lockup Demo" will be displayed.

Günter
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03-12-2015, 05:18 PM (This post was last modified: 03-12-2015 05:28 PM by BartDB.)
Post: #10
RE: HP-35S Bug List Bug?
(03-12-2015 12:40 PM)toml_12953 Wrote:  According to entry # 15 of the bug list at

http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/...i?read=735

Code:
A001  LBL A
A002  SF 10
A003  LOCKUP DEMO
A004  0
A005  GTO A004

should lock up the calculator. On mine, pressing ON stops the program as usual and there are no ill effects that I can see. Are there different versions of the 35S ROM? I preordered mine so I got a very early model.

Tom L

Did you press R/S after LOCKUP DEMO was displayed? The calculator is pausing when displaying a message (i.e. at A003), you need to press R/S for it to continue to line A004, then it will lock up.

Best regards.

Edit: so far I have always lost all memory when doing this, even on the emulator.


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03-12-2015, 05:22 PM (This post was last modified: 03-12-2015 05:23 PM by toml_12953.)
Post: #11
RE: HP-35S Bug List Bug?
Another bug I can't duplicate is #8

8.In a program: VIEW (I) ; PSE will show the wrong value of I.

I tried this:

Code:
LBL A
-5
STO I
3
STO E
VIEW(I)
PSE
RTN

shows 3 which it should. Am I reading the problem wrong?

Tom L

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03-12-2015, 06:49 PM (This post was last modified: 03-12-2015 06:52 PM by Dieter.)
Post: #12
RE: HP-35S Bug List Bug?
(03-12-2015 05:22 PM)toml_12953 Wrote:  Another bug I can't duplicate is #8

8. In a program: VIEW (I) ; PSE will show the wrong value of I.

I tried this:
(...)
shows 3 which it should. Am I reading the problem wrong?

Try 5 instead of –5. The problem occurs with the indirect variables:

Code:
LBL A
5
STO I
3
STO(I)
VIEW(I)
PSE
RTN

Instead of "(5)= 3" the display shows "(32)= 3". The displayed index is off by 27.
Try a direct VIEW(I) in run mode, or remove the PSE in the program, and everything is fine.

Dieter
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03-12-2015, 07:00 PM
Post: #13
RE: HP-35S Bug List Bug?
(03-12-2015 05:22 PM)toml_12953 Wrote:  shows 3 which it should. Am I reading the problem wrong?
Don't think so. Manually stored 8@(I), I=100. If I leave 8 on the stack, my program *seemingly* works ( VIEW(I);PSE;RTN ). After a CLR 5 (clearing stack) it doesn't. You see something like (127) and 8 appearing and vanishing in the display (emulator, my 35s is at the office). I confirm a bug, and it's a strange one.
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03-12-2015, 07:02 PM (This post was last modified: 03-12-2015 07:04 PM by MarkHaysHarris777.)
Post: #14
RE: HP-35S Bug List Bug?
(03-12-2015 12:40 PM)toml_12953 Wrote:  Are there different versions of the 35S ROM? I preordered mine so I got a very early model.

No. The ROM has not been changed; it doesn't appear that its going to be changed either... and apparently is out of the hands of HP. They are under some contractual agreement with Kinpo Taiwan which forbids it.

The important nuance here is how to 'avoid' the quirks on the bug-list for the 35s. All of them are easily avoided, or worked around. In the case of this 'bug' DO NOT use an equation to 'prompt' in a program. If you do, deliberately use an R/S or PSE in your program after the prompt. But, better still, avoid the entire issue by staying away from the EQN system... what I call 'the dream within a dream'... or if you like, the nightmare within a dream (bad calculator within a good calculator). Also, avoid putting your 35s into a never-ending loop. This is good practice in general, but will save you headaches on any 8 bit system with the 6502 or 6510 processor core under the covers, like the HP35s.

Cheers,
marcus
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marcus
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03-13-2015, 05:10 PM
Post: #15
RE: HP-35S Bug List Bug?
(03-12-2015 07:02 PM)MarkHaysHarris777 Wrote:  Also, avoid putting your 35s into a never-ending loop. This is good practice in general, but will save you headaches on any 8 bit system with the 6502 or 6510 processor core under the covers, like the HP35s.
(1) The above program locks up the emulator as well plus it blanks the display, which means something happens outside the loop after pressing R/S.

(2) There's no indication such a loop is executed as compiled 6502 code. The Clear key would then have to send a NMI or MI to interrupt a program and at the same time function within the interpreter to accomplish its other tasks. This is unnecessary complex, allthough I like the idea of a JIT compiler.

(3) I would expect compiled code to run faster.

I'm not sure your theory is right.
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