For people looking for a 3d printer
07-19-2014, 04:42 AM (This post was last modified: 07-19-2014 04:45 AM by eried.)
Post: #1
 eried Senior Member Posts: 719 Joined: Dec 2013
For people looking for a 3d printer
Couple of years ago I assembled a makerbot (when they still were a small company that sold the parts only). And I was very very careful when assembling every micrometer of it (like ignoring some online instructions and trusting my common sense, etc).

Probably you have seen lots of new expensive printers, here is a comparison in 2 prints, one from a recent replicator 2, and the black piece from my ancient TOM

As you can see the differences aren't very noticeable. Checking the layers is pretty much the same history (from top to bottom -> Top layer of the nut, middle part/from the side, bottom between the floating parts in the M letter):

Full image: http://f.cl.ly/items/3i3u3V0q0O3W091F0y3...arison.jpg

More images:
http://cl.ly/image/0g0A3s0w102W
http://cl.ly/image/3i3H061O063k
http://cl.ly/image/2C2S2f3K3I3k
http://cl.ly/image/3N001O1F0J2f

So... my general advice/conclusion for any calculator/science lover who wants a 3d printer are:
1) Go for the Rep2 if you need something really easy that gives standard quality. Equivalent to buying an Apple-dremel or something like that. More time in the job than in the tool, expensive and kinda limited.

2) Go for the ultimaker for maximum quality/fair challenge

3) Go for the reprap for ultimate challenge and fun! (having in account than the quality gap between generations is not THAT big as every vendor wants to make you believe)

My website: erwin.ried.cl
07-19-2014, 06:48 PM
Post: #2
 Dale Reed Junior Member Posts: 34 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: For people looking for a 3d printer
Go for the MakerGear M2 if you want a quality, durable, precise and well-supported open-source printer with top-quality components, steel frame, lots of options and parts available from the manufacturer and on thingiverse and other sites.

The reputation for incredible support, both from the manufacturer and the forum/community sites, is justified. Check the reviews on Amazon.

Made in Beachwood (Cleveland area), Ohio (about 6 km from my house). Bought one in 4/2013, and it's a beast. 200mm x 250mm x 200mm build volume. New option for dual extruder coming any day now. Built like a tank. LOVE IT. Best quality and value in a 3D printer available under 2,000 USD (IMHO, and I shopped around quite a bit). Hobby or production environment: you will like it. MakerGear website MakerGear forum Tell Rick, Karen, Josh, Ricky, Ivan and the whole gang that I sent you. But even if you don't, Karen will throw a nice chocolate treat in with your order. Dale 07-20-2014, 01:54 AM Post: #3  eried Senior Member Posts: 719 Joined: Dec 2013 RE: For people looking for a 3d printer MakerGear M2 looks really nice, do you have any very near image of an object printed with that? My website: erwin.ried.cl 07-20-2014, 02:23 AM (This post was last modified: 07-20-2014 02:30 AM by Dale Reed.) Post: #4  Dale Reed Junior Member Posts: 34 Joined: Dec 2013 RE: For people looking for a 3d printer (07-20-2014 01:54 AM)eried Wrote: MakerGear M2 looks really nice, do you have any very near image of an object printed with that? Here's the MAKE Magazine 2013 Torture Test object (Thingiverse thing #33902) printed on my printer (and photographed by me right after printing, on the date shown) at 0.2 mm layer thickness with 90/180 degree infill using MakerGear black PLA (polylactic acid) 1.75 mm filament. Software for slicing and printer control is Simplify3D. Also, check out the MakerGear Forum Printed Object Showcase to see what all everybody is showing off. I picked the M2 mainly after a detailed read-through of the MAKE 2013 3D Printing special issue, which compared about 18 models. But after doing more online research and finding out the M2 was built just down the street, I invited myself and 3 friends from work to go check it out at the shop one day after lunch. Rick and his employees were very gracious and informative and showed us several M2s --- building parts for M2s, of course! --- and several sample prints. Pay-Pal'ed my order that evening and have never regretted it for a second. It really is built to last forever, and Rick and his team keep making design improvements. The new dual-extruder setup that's being shipped to a few early adopters has all-metal hot ends. The MakerGear hot ends and extruders are used by a lot of people who have built their own RepRap-style printers and swear by them - not at them. I've taken my M2 to a couple of STEM events at local schools and have not had to re-level the bed -- it just stays in alignment. Really a stable, strong machine. Dale 07-20-2014, 04:01 AM Post: #5  eried Senior Member Posts: 719 Joined: Dec 2013 RE: For people looking for a 3d printer Looks nice! You ordered the kit or the assembled one? Have you tried abs? My website: erwin.ried.cl 07-20-2014, 04:50 PM Post: #6  Dale Reed Junior Member Posts: 34 Joined: Dec 2013 RE: For people looking for a 3d printer (07-20-2014 04:01 AM)eried Wrote: Looks nice! You ordered the kit or the assembled one? Have you tried abs? Growing up, my dad made sure I had the gift of Heathkit and/or Craftsman every birthday and Christmas. So, of course, I got the kit. If you're OK with basic mechanical assembly from a bunch of marked bags of parts, and positioning connectors properly on a circuit board given a photo-with-callouts of the connection points, you'll be fine with the kit. I have printed LOTS of PLA, and some "PET+" (brand name, for PET or PETE polyethylene terephthalate filament, the stuff from which 2-liter bottles and such are made) from a company called MadeSolid, but no ABS (yet -- I have some, just haven't opened the bag yet). The PET+ is excellent material, kind of runny from the nozzle (so you have to tweak the settings to avoid "stringing" and "whiskering"), but super strong, and it's a food-grade material. I really like MadeSolid's crystal clear PET+ in particular. I stocked up on black MakerGear PLA. I've been meaning to make a landscape calculator of my own design, with a four-line character LCD, but I haven't gotten around to designing the PCB for it yet. I'm planning on using the M2 to print the enclosure for the calculator, and the custom enclosure for another electronic project I've been working on. Wish I had more time to play with my microcontroller development boards and software and PCB design software and all that. Maybe when I retire.... BTW, my retirement party will be from 14:00 to 16:00 EDT on April 8, 2024. My workplace will be under a total solar eclipse at 15:15 EDT that day, so I can sneak out in the dark --- kind of like the Baltimore Colts did in 1984, and the Cleveland Browns did in 1996... Dale 07-20-2014, 07:46 PM Post: #7  eried Senior Member Posts: 719 Joined: Dec 2013 RE: For people looking for a 3d printer HP will have 3d printers in supermarket shelves at49 USD by 2024 hahah, of course the refill roll will be 1/3 full and will cost \$59 USD.

I have tried PLA and I recommend that for anyone starting, much less curling and low temps (I don't see any heated bed in that makergear), but ABS is what I expect from the objects, not a brittle weak mesh , for example to avoid dust particles going thru my sliding switches! :

My website: erwin.ried.cl
07-21-2014, 01:12 AM
Post: #8
 Dale Reed Junior Member Posts: 34 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: For people looking for a 3d printer
eried,

Yep, PLA is the easiest to start with. And the M2 has a heated bed. I run PLA at about 200C at the nozzle tip, with the bed at about 60C, printing direct to the glass with just a touch of hairspray for better sticking.

ABS (the stuff of which Lego brand blocks are made) is no problem, with the tip at about 220-230C and the bed at about 105-110C. The newer all-24-volt M2s (shipped within the last year) have no problem reaching that bed temperature. An enclosure to block drafts and trap the heat a bit helps with curling as ABS cools. Most people print ABS on Kapton tape, possibly with a little "ABS/acetone slurry" (homemade ABS cement) on it.

PET also runs with the tip at about 220-230C, but sticks great on the bed at 70C with just hairspray on the glass.

Now, back to the calculators: Should I build one of the 25-key "HP-25 40th Anniversary" designs that was posted on this board a month or two ago? Walter will want the "double-wide" ENTER^ key one (4 x 6, but with a row of five), while I submitted a "double-high" ENTER^ key design (5 x 5). Or, Walter, should I go straight to the 43-key landscape design I shared with you a year or so ago?

Dale
07-21-2014, 06:35 AM
Post: #9
 walter b On Vacation Posts: 1,957 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: For people looking for a 3d printer
(07-21-2014 01:12 AM)Dale Reed Wrote:  Or, Walter, should I go straight to the 43-key landscape design I shared with you a year or so ago?

Sorry, Dale, my memory isn't as reliable as 25 years ago anymore. So, would you mind recalling your design proposals once again? TIA.

d:-)
07-22-2014, 01:52 AM
Post: #10
 Dale Reed Junior Member Posts: 34 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: For people looking for a 3d printer
(07-21-2014 06:35 AM)walter b Wrote:  Sorry, Dale, my memory isn't as reliable as 25 years ago anymore. So, would you mind recalling your design proposals once again? TIA.

d:-)

Hey, Walter! Well, the 4x6 and 5x5 25-key layouts were in Eddie Shore's "Keyboard Challenge" topic (see my edited post #34 in particular) on this same board. Not sure if I ever showed you the 43-key landscape layout or posted it. I had exchanged some e-mails with Eddie on it. It's basically like the Voyagers, except the ENTER^ key is double-wide horizontal, in the center of the bottom row (like a spacebar). In fact, in an "alpha" mode, it would BE the spacebar. The reason for 43 keys is that I would have a diamond of arrow keys in the upper right corner (where the logo should be).

Was it not you who posted a similar layout, without the arrow keys, but with the A B C D E F for hex entry neatly engraved on the bezel below the display?

I forget, too.
Dale
07-22-2014, 07:33 AM
Post: #11
 walter b On Vacation Posts: 1,957 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: For people looking for a 3d printer
(07-22-2014 01:52 AM)Dale Reed Wrote:  Well, the 4x6 and 5x5 25-key layouts were in Eddie Shore's "Keyboard Challenge" topic (see my edited post #34 in particular) on this same board.

That's what I remember.

Quote:Not sure if I ever showed you the 43-key landscape layout or posted it.

Now, here we are! Where is it?

Quote:It's basically like the Voyagers, except the ENTER^ key is double-wide horizontal, in the center of the bottom row (like a spacebar). In fact, in an "alpha" mode, it would BE the spacebar. The reason for 43 keys is that I would have a diamond of arrow keys in the upper right corner (where the logo should be).

Was it not you who posted a similar layout, without the arrow keys, but with the A B C D E F for hex entry neatly engraved on the bezel below the display?

You're referring to really old stuff now. Pre-WP. I've to dig in the old forum to find that again.

d:-)
07-22-2014, 03:54 PM
Post: #12
 walter b On Vacation Posts: 1,957 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: For people looking for a 3d printer
Here's what I found in the archives (cough, cough) showing horizontal ENTER keys:

January 2007:

March 2007:

January 2008:

March 2008:

and:

and:

July 2008:

Hope that might (have) inspire(d) somebody - at least the dust is off again now.

d:-)
07-24-2014, 02:15 AM
Post: #13
 Dale Reed Junior Member Posts: 34 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: For people looking for a 3d printer
Yeah, the one after the first " and: " --- with the four keys in the upper right corner in a "diamond" arrangement. Sorta like that, but I have a four-line character display. THAT'S what I bought my MakerGear M2 3D printer to print the case for --- and the case for my pocket sound effects box. Those things.

... to get us back onto the 3D printing topic!!!

Sorry to derail --- hope we're back on track now. The topic is 3D printing, is it not?
Dale
07-24-2014, 07:52 PM
Post: #14
 walter b On Vacation Posts: 1,957 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: For people looking for a 3d printer
(07-24-2014 02:15 AM)Dale Reed Wrote:  Yeah, the one after the first " and: " --- with the four keys in the upper right corner in a "diamond" arrangement. Sorta like that, but I have a four-line character display. THAT'S what I bought my MakerGear M2 3D printer to print the case for ...

... to get us back onto the 3D printing topic!!!

Sorry to derail --- hope we're back on track now. The topic is 3D printing, is it not?

Ooops, did I misunderstand your post #8? And we're on a calculator forum, aren't we?

d:-?
07-25-2014, 01:14 AM
Post: #15
 Dale Reed Junior Member Posts: 34 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: For people looking for a 3d printer
(07-24-2014 07:52 PM)walter b Wrote:  Ooops, did I misunderstand your post #8? And we're on a calculator forum, aren't we?

d:-?

Perhaps I mis-typed. But I think I presented 3 alternatives as to what I should make (and print the case for with my 3D printer):

1. 25-key calculator, 5 rows of 5 keys, with large vertical ENTER^ key in the upper left corner, the first of two designs I submitted in Eddie's keyboard challenge topic; or

2. 25-key calculator, 6 rows with 5 keys in the top row, a double-wide ENTER^ key in the second row (reducing it to four keys), and 4 keys in each of the lower 4 rows (along the lines of what others submitted in Eddie's keyboard challenge topic, like a Woodstock without the top row of keys); or

3. 43-key calculator, landscape format, 3 rows of 10 keys and 9 keys in the bottom row, with a double-wide ENTER^ key in the center and a diamond of cursor keys in the upper right corner (similar to your design after the first "and:" -- after March, 2008 -- in your post of 2014-07-22 11:54 EDT -- UTC-4, my time zone).

As to the "TOPIC", this particular board and topic is "HP Forums / Not HP Calculators / Not remotely HP Calculators / For people looking for a 3d printer" (see top of this web page). So I interpret that to mean: "This topic is not remotely about HP calculators -- it's about advice for people looking for a 3D printer." To summarize, my advice is, based on my happy experience, get a MakerGear M2. And I plan to use mine to help build a calculator --- for which I've not yet settled on a design, but I'm using the discussion in Eddie's Keyboard Challenge topic for inspiration, and for which I've gathered a few parts already (e.g., the display).

I also plan to print many other things --- again, many I haven't even thought of yet.

I hope that was clearer!

So, Walter, get yourself a 3D printer! I'll send you a design for a little six-piece slidey-block puzzle you can print --- it should keep you occupied for at least a few minutes!

Dale
07-25-2014, 06:25 AM
Post: #16
 anetzer Member Posts: 147 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: For people looking for a 3d printer
(07-25-2014 01:14 AM)Dale Reed Wrote:  And I plan to use mine to help build a calculator --- for which I've not yet settled on a design, but I'm using the discussion in Eddie's Keyboard Challenge topic for inspiration, and for which I've gathered a few parts already (e.g., the display).

Joining forces on the WP 43S project might be a good idea?

Once you've seen the Eric Smith present the progress of his Scaled Reptiles, you might understand, why this is probably the most efficient way to waste time on a calculator project...

a.
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