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Some questions on HP-41
09-12-2019, 08:12 PM
Post: #1
Some questions on HP-41
I'm starting to play around with these. It took me a long time to find the X<> key since there isn't one.

Did any keyboard overlays come with the 41C, CV, and CX models? Is there any source for them? I saw a thread here that somebody on the forum has done a lot of overlays for various modules but at this point I can't even remember where the basic keys are. Thanks.

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09-12-2019, 08:46 PM
Post: #2
RE: Some questions on HP-41
Overlays that came with the HP 41 were blank (but gray colored) or were gray and had the shifted functions already printed on them.

A google search for HP-41C overlay will show pictures of them.
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09-12-2019, 08:58 PM
Post: #3
RE: Some questions on HP-41
Thanks. I see plenty of pictures but it's not clear to me which ones were standard from HP and which ones came with modules. Do people generally come to remember the shifted keys and not bother with overlays, or are overlays widely used? I didn't see many items for sale on TOS.

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09-12-2019, 09:12 PM
Post: #4
RE: Some questions on HP-41
The HP-41 was a break from previous generations in several ways.
One of the way was that there was a lot more functions (120) that there was available of the keyboard (68).
That is why HP made the USER mode allowing you to redefine the keys as you will, giving you the possibility to assign your favourite missing function on a key.
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09-12-2019, 09:59 PM
Post: #5
RE: Some questions on HP-41
Not an endorsement of ebay or the seller (who I do not know), but search for item 133008715082 and you will see one of two original overlays that HP included with the HP-41C. The other overlay included looked exactly like this one but did not have any of the shifted functions present.

Some modules included overlays and they were colored more like the faceplate black of the HP 41C, but the overlays included looked like the gray one in the item above.
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09-13-2019, 03:30 AM
Post: #6
RE: Some questions on HP-41
The 41CX included the 2 grey ones, but also included the Stopwatch overlay, since the TIME module was built-in.

--Bob Prosperi
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09-13-2019, 07:00 AM
Post: #7
RE: Some questions on HP-41
Thank you @Gene, @Sylvain, @rprosperi!

The overlay on the bay doesn't seem to be much different if at all from what's already on the keyboard. I was looking for an overlay for the shift keys shown on the back of the device like the append, <, >, etc.

Do you guys just remember those after a while and not need the overlays?

Is there a source of blank overlays? I'd like to mark some up for use when I get to know the 41 well enough to decide how I would like to set it up.

Thanks.

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09-13-2019, 08:07 AM
Post: #8
RE: Some questions on HP-41
After using the 41C for a while, you'll probably remember the shifted ALPHA keys, and never look at that diagram on the back of the calculator again. HP must have figured the same thing, because the 41CX shows the ED key assignments on the back instead.

I don't remember ever having seen an overlay for the ALPHA keyboard.
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09-13-2019, 08:24 AM
Post: #9
RE: Some questions on HP-41
(09-13-2019 07:00 AM)HP67 Wrote:  The overlay on the bay doesn't seem to be much different if at all from what's already on the keyboard.

The light beige color is not as attractive IMO, but it's more suitable for writing your own key assignments on it.

The ability to have various overlays and swap them out quickly was sure a nice part of the design. I have a half dozen, including a couple for Angel's modules that he introduced in just the last few years.

http://WilsonMinesCo.com (Lots of HP-41 links at the bottom of the links page, http://wilsonminesco.com/links.html )
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09-13-2019, 12:05 PM (This post was last modified: 09-13-2019 12:05 PM by HP67.)
Post: #10
RE: Some questions on HP-41
Thanks guys. It's hard now that I'm almost in "senior citizen" status and am not using only the 41. I can easily believe guys that got them back in the day and used them exclusively got the hang of it very quickly. I'm not sure I'll be able to but I'll try. It looks like a very interesting machine. I still love my 48s better though Tongue and can't get used to the idea that I can't save my code on a PC via kermit!

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09-13-2019, 12:13 PM
Post: #11
RE: Some questions on HP-41
Yes, after you use it a bit you pretty quickly get used to where the Alpha symbols are located, or at least the symbols you use often, such as ?, =, <, >, etc.

Here is a post from a long-time member that sells overlays for the 41C:

https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/thread-25...t=overlays

Blank overlays were not listed when the post was made, however it's possible that they are available as well. Contact Michael via PM; he's in Germany, very helpful and quickly replies.

--Bob Prosperi
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09-13-2019, 12:45 PM
Post: #12
RE: Some questions on HP-41
(09-13-2019 12:05 PM)HP67 Wrote:  I still love my 48s better though Tongue and can't get used to the idea that I can't save my code on a PC via kermit!
But you can via HP-IL with HP-82160A HP-IL Module, PIL-Box & one of the peripherals emulators from Jean-François Garnier, Christoph Gießelink or Joachim Siebold. Tongue
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09-13-2019, 03:28 PM
Post: #13
HP 41C overlay generator
There is a site that lets you create your own overlays for the HP 41C family.

http://hp.meshuggeneh.net/

Make the one you need, print out at proper scale, and cut with a scalpel or other sharp implement.

Alan
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09-13-2019, 03:59 PM
Post: #14
RE: Some questions on HP-41
(09-13-2019 12:05 PM)HP67 Wrote:  and can't get used to the idea that I can't save my code on a PC via kermit!

I keep hoping against hope that someone will make a module with a microSD card slot! Smile The usefulness would mainly be to share files though, or to hold more than the 41's main and extended memory can; because the 41 is much more reliable than the PC for keeping it long-term. I have programs in my 41 that I use regularly that have been there continually, without ever re-loading, for 25 years or more. I have two of the HP82161A digital microcassette tape drives and never use them. (I did use one about five years ago to re-load stuff into my HP-71B, and file after file, tape after tape, it all worked perfectly, loading stuff I had recorded in the 1980's.)

http://WilsonMinesCo.com (Lots of HP-41 links at the bottom of the links page, http://wilsonminesco.com/links.html )
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09-14-2019, 07:56 AM (This post was last modified: 09-14-2019 08:08 AM by Ángel Martin.)
Post: #15
RE: Some questions on HP-41
(09-13-2019 03:59 PM)Garth Wilson Wrote:  I keep hoping against hope that someone will make a module with a microSD card slot! Smile The usefulness would mainly be to share files though, or to hold more than the 41's main and extended memory can; because the 41 is much more reliable than the PC for keeping it long-term.

So do I , but I'm not optimistic about it. It appears to be more complicated than it looks, or maybe it is that the hardware aspects of the design are expensive, the fact is there's no movement on that area unfortunately.

PS. Meindert Kuipers had a prototype working a few years ago, but unfortunately he's not interested in the project anymore. Check the video in the link below, the SD card appears in minute 3:50 approx.

https://os.mbed.com/users/DeMein/noteboo...readboard/
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09-14-2019, 08:43 AM
Post: #16
RE: Some questions on HP-41
(09-14-2019 07:56 AM)Ángel Martin Wrote:  Check the video in the link below, the SD card appears in minute 3:50 approx.

I'm only seeing the USB stick. USB is much, much more complicated than SD card. To further simplify things, SD card has an SPI mode.

http://WilsonMinesCo.com (Lots of HP-41 links at the bottom of the links page, http://wilsonminesco.com/links.html )
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09-14-2019, 09:29 AM (This post was last modified: 09-14-2019 09:30 AM by Ángel Martin.)
Post: #17
RE: Some questions on HP-41
(09-14-2019 08:43 AM)Garth Wilson Wrote:  
(09-14-2019 07:56 AM)Ángel Martin Wrote:  Check the video in the link below, the SD card appears in minute 3:50 approx.

I'm only seeing the USB stick. USB is much, much more complicated than SD card. To further simplify things, SD card has an SPI mode.

then you're not looking right: go to minute 3:40, it even says on the screen message " Use a micro SD Card for data transfers"
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09-14-2019, 09:35 AM
Post: #18
RE: Some questions on HP-41
(09-14-2019 08:43 AM)Garth Wilson Wrote:  
(09-14-2019 07:56 AM)Ángel Martin Wrote:  Check the video in the link below, the SD card appears in minute 3:50 approx.

I'm only seeing the USB stick. USB is much, much more complicated than SD card. To further simplify things, SD card has an SPI mode.
In Flexible Hardware Module presentation video (HHC 2018), Monte is showing an SD card interface (40:00 to 42:00) that could be implemented in a module.
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09-14-2019, 11:09 AM
Post: #19
RE: Some questions on HP-41
(09-14-2019 09:29 AM)Ángel Martin Wrote:  
(09-14-2019 08:43 AM)Garth Wilson Wrote:  I'm only seeing the USB stick. USB is much, much more complicated than SD card. To further simplify things, SD card has an SPI mode.

then you're not looking right: go to minute 3:40, it even says on the screen message " Use a micro SD Card for data transfers"

just finished watching the entire video and it is an amazing feat: every dream feature is in there, what a pity it never came into a product passing the prototype stage, even the MCODE in that project must have taken a lot of effort to put together... c'est domage!
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09-14-2019, 08:36 PM
Post: #20
RE: Some questions on HP-41
(09-13-2019 12:45 PM)Sylvain Cote Wrote:  
(09-13-2019 12:05 PM)HP67 Wrote:  I still love my 48s better though Tongue and can't get used to the idea that I can't save my code on a PC via kermit!
But you can via HP-IL with HP-82160A HP-IL Module, PIL-Box & one of the peripherals emulators from Jean-François Garnier, Christoph Gießelink or Joachim Siebold. Tongue

Thank you, Sylvain Smile I had the PIL box site bookmarked but I don't think I knew about the others. I still have no idea what most of this is all about. Is the PIL box a replacement for HP-IL or does it require you to also have an HP-IL box?

@garth yes, a module with some standard card slot would be amazing or to be honest I'd be quite happy with a module that hosted a server like the 48s have which could talk to Kermit over serial...

Thanks to all the guys for the various info and replies. I've bookmarked the thread Smile

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