Unit Calc / Conversion only in HP?
05-15-2014, 10:13 AM
Post: #1
 Alvaro Member Posts: 73 Joined: Mar 2014
Unit Calc / Conversion only in HP?
Hi,
One of the most important feature for me of the HP is the Unit Conversion and Calculation.
For people like me that are working with Physics that is a very important feature that I don´t want to miss on a calculator.
Is there any other Calculator that has Unit Calculation / Conversion avaible?
05-15-2014, 10:27 AM
Post: #2
 walter b On Vacation Posts: 1,957 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Unit Calc / Conversion only in HP?
(05-15-2014 10:13 AM)Alvaro Wrote:  One of the most important feature for me of the HP is the Unit Conversion and Calculation. ... Is there any other Calculator that has Unit Calculation / Conversion avaible?

Any other?? To HP?? I'd recommend a WP 34S for obvious reasons.

d:-)
05-15-2014, 10:37 AM
Post: #3
 Alvaro Member Posts: 73 Joined: Mar 2014
RE: Unit Calc / Conversion only in HP?
(05-15-2014 10:27 AM)walter b Wrote:
(05-15-2014 10:13 AM)Alvaro Wrote:  One of the most important feature for me of the HP is the Unit Conversion and Calculation. ... Is there any other Calculator that has Unit Calculation / Conversion avaible?

Any other?? To HP?? I'd recommend a WP 34S for obvious reasons.

d:-)

Hi Walter b,
Well, I know that most of the HP have that feature.
What I am question is if there is a TI, Casio, Sharp and so on that also offers the Units Calcualtion / Conversions.
I am considering to sell my 50g but I need an alternative that has the Units Calc/Conv.
TI-nSpire (not CAS) looks insteresting but it has not the Units.
So, any other ?
05-15-2014, 10:45 AM (This post was last modified: 05-15-2014 10:47 AM by Dalil.)
Post: #4
 Dalil Junior Member Posts: 10 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Unit Calc / Conversion only in HP?
Hi,

the latest scientific calculators from Casio and TI such as the Casio FX 991ES PLUS or the TI-36X can do unit conversions to a certain extent (i.e. it is possible to convert from base unit from one system to another, e.g. cm to inches or SI to imperial units, but they cannot be combined, e.g. no possible conversion from V/m to Ohms*A/inches).

The Casio FX 5800P, which I also own, cannot do unit conversions as far as I am aware.

Most graphical calculators can also do unit conversion to the level of the scientific ones, such as the TI-83PLUS (via application), the TI-85/86, etc., but not unit calculations.

I suppose the Sharp models can do similar, but I do not possess any of them so I cannot confirm.

The only calculators other than HP that I own that can do unit calculations are the TI-89 and TI-92 PLUS. The NSpire CAS models could probably do it, but I don't own any so again I cannot confirm.

Hope this helped.

Dalil
05-15-2014, 11:25 AM
Post: #5
 Alvaro Member Posts: 73 Joined: Mar 2014
RE: Unit Calc / Conversion only in HP?
(05-15-2014 10:45 AM)Dalil Wrote:
Hi,

the latest scientific calculators from Casio and TI such as the Casio FX 991ES PLUS or the TI-36X can do unit conversions to a certain extent (i.e. it is possible to convert from base unit from one system to another, e.g. cm to inches or SI to imperial units, but they cannot be combined, e.g. no possible conversion from V/m to Ohms*A/inches).

The Casio FX 5800P, which I also own, cannot do unit conversions as far as I am aware.

Most graphical calculators can also do unit conversion to the level of the scientific ones, such as the TI-83PLUS (via application), the TI-85/86, etc., but not unit calculations.

I suppose the Sharp models can do similar, but I do not possess any of them so I cannot confirm.

The only calculators other than HP that I own that can do unit calculations are the TI-89 and TI-92 PLUS. The NSpire CAS models could probably do it, but I don't own any so again I cannot confirm.

Hope this helped.

Dalil

Hi Dalil,
As I supect, the full implementation of Units Calculations / Conversions is only available in HP´s.
Well, one argument for I stay with it.
05-15-2014, 11:55 AM
Post: #6
 Dalil Junior Member Posts: 10 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Unit Calc / Conversion only in HP?
You are welcome.

I quite agree with you, the HP50G is able to do everything that one could expect a calculator to do and much more.

05-15-2014, 01:01 PM
Post: #7
 Alvaro Member Posts: 73 Joined: Mar 2014
RE: Unit Calc / Conversion only in HP?
(05-15-2014 11:55 AM)Dalil Wrote:  You are welcome.

Hi Dalil,
Well, the main reason is because of the Programming language, UserRPL, I can not use it, I will not spend any Second around with it.
I need a Calculator that also supports BASIC language. And TI-Nspire Touchpad (not CAS) seems to accept BBC BASIC.
Well, I will think about it for several days.
05-15-2014, 01:12 PM (This post was last modified: 05-15-2014 01:25 PM by jebem.)
Post: #8
 jebem Senior Member Posts: 1,314 Joined: Feb 2014
RE: Unit Calc / Conversion only in HP?
(05-15-2014 01:01 PM)Alvaro Wrote:
(05-15-2014 11:55 AM)Dalil Wrote:  If I may ask you, what made you consider selling it?
Well, the main reason is because of the Programming language, UserRPL, I can not use it, I will not spend any Second around with it.
I need a Calculator that also supports BASIC language.
Well, I will think about it for several days.

Or You may like to have a look on the HP-Prime - fantastic calculator, up to date technology, fast, unit conversions as required, powerful high level structured programming language similar to PASCAL (and to BASIC to some extent, but no GOTO instructions here, which is a goood thing...), algebraic and RPN entry modes, and much more!
http://www.hp-prime.de/en/category/12-units-constants

However the WP-34S is an excellent programmable RPN super calculator that also includes units conversion.
http://www.thecalculatorstore.com/WebRoo..._3_1-2.pdf
And it is a free open project, so in the event You may like to build one instead of buying it ready prepared, have a look to the author's site:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/wp34s/

Jose Mesquita

05-15-2014, 02:11 PM (This post was last modified: 05-15-2014 02:21 PM by Dalil.)
Post: #9
 Dalil Junior Member Posts: 10 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Unit Calc / Conversion only in HP?
(05-15-2014 01:01 PM)Alvaro Wrote:  Hi Dalil,
Well, the main reason is because of the Programming language, UserRPL, I can not use it, I will not spend any Second around with it.
I need a Calculator that also supports BASIC language. And TI-Nspire Touchpad (not CAS) seems to accept BBC BASIC.
Well, I will think about it for several days.

Hi Alvaro,

I understand where you are coming from, I had struggled for quite a bit to get used to the UserRPL language and until now I am still using multiple calculators for multiple problems.

The best alternative for you to the best of my knowledge would be either a TI-89, a TI-89 TITANIUM, a TI Voyage 200 or a TI-92 PLUS. The programming language is close to BASIC and is quite straightforward.

The advantages would be that these machines have identical capabilities compared to the HP50G regarding units manipulations and are quite simple to learn how to use.

The main disadvantage is the price. The TI-89/TI-92PLUS can only be found second hand and are usually expensive, £80+. The TI-89 TITANIUM and TI Voyage 200 can be found new but cost usually more than £120.

You can find emulator of each machine to try it before any purchase to be sure they fulfill your needs.

Quote:Or You may like to have a look on the HP-Prime - fantastic calculator, up to date technology, fast, unit conversions as required, powerful high level structured programming language similar to PASCAL (and to BASIC to some extent, but no GOTO instructions here, which is a goood thing...), algebraic and RPN entry modes, and much more!
http://www.hp-prime.de/en/category/12-units-constants

However the WP-34S is an excellent programmable RPN super calculator that also includes units conversion.
http://www.thecalculatorstore.com/WebRoo..._3_1-2.pdf
And it is a free open project, so in the event You may like to build one instead of buying it ready prepared, have a look to the author's site:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/wp34s/

The HP-Prime is a nice machine, but does it have the units manipulation capabilities of the HP50G?
Edit: I checked the manual and it seems that the HP Prime can manipulate units and therefore would probably be an option for Alvaro.

Same question for the WP34S. It is a very capable machine but seems to be limited to predefined conversions.

Would it be possible to convert V*Ohms into lb^2*inches^4/(A^3*year^6)? Not that it is useful, but it is to show how powerful the unit manipulation can be on the HP50G.

By the way, the HP50G answer to this question is 1 V.Ohm is equal to 11.532E51 lb^2*inches^4/(A^3*year^6) ^^

On top of that, the WP34S does not fulfill Alvaro's requirements of a machine with BASIC-like programming language.
05-15-2014, 08:55 PM
Post: #10
 Thomas Klemm Senior Member Posts: 1,448 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Unit Calc / Conversion only in HP?
(05-15-2014 10:27 AM)walter b Wrote:  I'd recommend a WP 34S for obvious reasons.

Because it completely lacks any unit calculation?
05-15-2014, 09:14 PM
Post: #11
 walter b On Vacation Posts: 1,957 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Unit Calc / Conversion only in HP?
(05-15-2014 08:55 PM)Thomas Klemm Wrote:
(05-15-2014 10:27 AM)walter b Wrote:  I'd recommend a WP 34S for obvious reasons.

Because it completely lacks any unit calculation?

Hmmh, you should know better - but obviously you don't. So please read pp. 21 and 155ff (of 244) of the manual.

BTW, the overwhelming part of so-called unit calculations becomes obsolete once you start working with SI. Every professional scientist or engineer knows that. And for the little remaining part, 90% of it you can do faster in your head than keying it in. As long as you're forced to deal with thumbs and feet, however, I admit the need for conversions will stay.

d:-I
05-15-2014, 09:35 PM (This post was last modified: 05-15-2014 09:49 PM by Alvaro.)
Post: #12
 Alvaro Member Posts: 73 Joined: Mar 2014
RE: Unit Calc / Conversion only in HP?
(05-15-2014 09:14 PM)walter b Wrote:  Hmmh, you should know better - but obviously you don't. So please read pp. 21 and 155ff (of 244) of the manual.

BTW, the overwhelming part of so-called unit calculations becomes obsolete once you start working with SI. Every professional scientist or engineer knows that. And for the little remaining part, 90% of it you can do faster in your head than keying it in. As long as you're forced to deal with thumbs and feet, however, I admit the need for conversions will stay.

d:-I

It happens that sometimes you are facing with Units that are not SI or usual to you. It is very handy to have in Calculator the Conversion of it.
Sure, no Ing will be using the hability of the Calculator Units to do his job. Sure he is doing that automaticaly in his Head. But I like always to confirm that the Conversion a "machine" did for me is right. A Ing MUST always confirm that the results of a "machine" are right. If he does not do that, it can be fatal. That is where the Units Calculation is coming in game.
Again, it is handy that feature.
In Ing you are always facing with a lot of Units and mostly the are not straight SI, just they combined, for example N*m^2, sometimes it can be complicated to deal with them. So, that Feature of Units calculation is handy again.
And before I am looking in books what ever, is nice to have it just at the hand.
In Ingenieur world ever number has a Unit. A big difference from the Maths World, they just play with naked numbers.
05-16-2014, 06:52 AM
Post: #13
 walter b On Vacation Posts: 1,957 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Unit Calc / Conversion only in HP?
I fully agree with you on the necessity of conversions as long as not every unit conversion becomes trivial. Unit calculations beyond that, however, are either trivial or can be avoided by a conversion in time, assuming you work in a system of units. BTW, also in physics almost every number has a unit - so you engineers are not alone.

d:-)
05-16-2014, 07:26 AM
Post: #14
 Thomas Klemm Senior Member Posts: 1,448 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Unit Calc / Conversion only in HP?
(05-15-2014 09:14 PM)walter b Wrote:  Hmmh, you should know better - but obviously you don't.
Rest assured: I know better than you do.

Just to make sure what we're talking about:
HP 48G Series
User's Guide
Chapter 10: Unit Objects (*)

Example:
Code:
12_mA ENTER                                 12_mA 7_MΩ ENTER                                   7_MΩ ×                                        84_mA*MΩ UBASE                         8400_kg*m^2/(A*s^3) 5_μF ENTER                                   5_μF ×                         42000_kg*m^2*μF/(A*s^3) UBASE                                     .42_A*s 1_mC CONVERT                               420_mC

Quote:So please read pp. 21 and 155ff (of 244) of the manual.

Quote:BTW, the overwhelming part of so-called unit calculations becomes obsolete once you start working with SI. Every professional scientist or engineer knows that. And for the little remaining part, 90% of it you can do faster in your head than keying it in.

Completely agree with you on that. Who needs a calculator to multiply 12×7×5? You can do everything in your head. Or then use a slide rule. But never admit to use a calculator.

You could have answered that the WP 34S is capable of unit conversions.
But then a lot of calculators can do that.
Cearly that's not what Alvaro asked.

Cheers
Thomas

(*) Or a similar chapter in the user's guide of the HP 50g.
05-16-2014, 09:01 AM
Post: #15
 Massimo Gnerucci Senior Member Posts: 1,801 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Unit Calc / Conversion only in HP?
(05-16-2014 07:26 AM)Thomas Klemm Wrote:
Quote:So please read pp. 21 and 155ff (of 244) of the manual.

Not broken, just a local file.

Greetings,
Massimo

-+×÷ ↔ left is right and right is wrong
05-16-2014, 09:03 AM
Post: #16
 walter b On Vacation Posts: 1,957 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Unit Calc / Conversion only in HP?
First, thanks for explaining.

(05-16-2014 07:26 AM)Thomas Klemm Wrote:  You could have answered that the WP 34S is capable of unit conversions.
But then a lot of calculators can do that.
Cearly that's not what Alvaro asked.

For the record, here is what Alvaro asked in his OP:

(05-15-2014 10:13 AM)Alvaro Wrote:  One of the most important feature for me of the HP is the Unit Conversion and Calculation.
For people like me that are working with Physics that is a very important feature that I don´t want to miss on a calculator.
Is there any other Calculator that has Unit Calculation / Conversion avaible?

I was the first one who responded to that post and I interpreted his question the way I explained. Meanwhile it became clearer than in his OP - but it wasn't then. As I stated here more than once, my abilities in clairvoyance are very limited.

d:-) so far.

Now to a severe point:

Thomas,

(05-16-2014 07:26 AM)Thomas Klemm Wrote:
Quote:So please read pp. 21 and 155ff (of 244) of the manual.

Now here you manipulated my post under the camouflage of quoting it. That's a blatant falsification of my post! Either you apologize for that in the forum public or I'll have no alternative to report that.

>:-(
05-16-2014, 09:15 AM
Post: #17
 Massimo Gnerucci Senior Member Posts: 1,801 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Unit Calc / Conversion only in HP?
(05-16-2014 09:03 AM)walter b Wrote:  Now here you manipulated my post under the camouflage of quoting it. That's a blatant falsification of my post! Either you apologize for that in the forum public or I'll have no alternative to report that.

>:-(

Ooops, sorry Walter, I fell for it. Apologies.

Greetings,
Massimo

-+×÷ ↔ left is right and right is wrong
05-16-2014, 10:22 AM
Post: #18
 walter b On Vacation Posts: 1,957 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Unit Calc / Conversion only in HP?
(05-16-2014 09:15 AM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote:  Ooops, sorry Walter, I fell for it. Apologies.

d:-)
05-16-2014, 11:25 AM
Post: #19
 Alvaro Member Posts: 73 Joined: Mar 2014
RE: Unit Calc / Conversion only in HP?
I just found in one of my technical books a Unit conversion mistake. It says that 1bar=10N/m2. That is worng. The 50g give the right answer 10N/m2= 0.0001bar.
There was surely a typing error, it should be 1bar=10N/cm^2. This demonstartes how dangerous the Units conversion could be and how quick it happens.

So, again a Calculator that not provide Unit Conversion / Calculation is excluded from my choices.
05-16-2014, 12:16 PM
Post: #20
 walter b On Vacation Posts: 1,957 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Unit Calc / Conversion only in HP?
(05-16-2014 11:25 AM)Alvaro Wrote:  I just found in one of my technical books a Unit conversion mistake. It says that 1bar=10N/m2. That is worng. The 50g give the right answer 10N/m2= 0.0001bar.
There was surely a typing error, it should be 1bar=10N/cm^2. This demonstartes how dangerous the Units conversion could be and how quick it happens.

Thats's a textbook example for my statement I made above. Thanks.

Decades ago, I learned 1 hPa = 1 mbar (which I never forgot). I also remember that Pa is an SI unit, so obviously 1 Pa = 1 N/m². Looking to your book telling something about 10 N/m² I know now that are 10 Pa = 0.1 hPa = 0.1 mbar = 0.0001 bar. No witchwork, just bare simplicity - no calculator needed for that. Did I tell you I like SI?

d:-)
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