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Beware not to buy HP Prime, if you are engineer!
05-11-2018, 06:09 PM
Post: #61
RE: Beware not to buy HP Prime, if you are engineer!
I enjoy the spirited discussion on the pros and cons of the HP Prime and it's suitability to various markets and uses. Each person has their own preferences. What's great about an open and free dialogue is pressure testing a hypothesis and defending your position. Much of it is situational. Some is historical. A successful product's longevity is in the end, how well it is accepted and how long will it endure in the market (i.e. HP-12c). The Prime does have the ability to change as it matures. Perhaps there will be a next version (Optimus Prime?) that addresses some of the issues and concerns raised here.
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05-11-2018, 07:14 PM (This post was last modified: 05-11-2018 07:17 PM by Russel.)
Post: #62
RE: Beware not to buy HP Prime, if you are engineer!
(05-11-2018 05:51 PM)Michael de Estrada Wrote:  
(05-11-2018 04:18 PM)Russel Wrote:  Also, keep in mind that the best calculator for one person (or engineer) may not be the best for someone else.

A lot of it is generational, too. I’m in my 70s and have been an RPN person all my life. Not being able to program in RPN/RPL is a deal breaker for me. As all us old RPN people retire, there is less and less demand for RPN programmability, and the Prime becomes more viable in the engineering market.

I am also an RPN user, it is much simpler for me. My first HP calculator was a 34C. I wonder just how popular RPN is or isn't with younger generations. The Prime, of course, offers both RPN and algebraic systems.

It really depends upon the person. And yes, the generation someone is from has a big influence. Personally, I am still surprised that the majority of calculator users don't prefer RPN. But, that is just me...
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05-11-2018, 07:27 PM (This post was last modified: 05-11-2018 07:30 PM by dmmaster.)
Post: #63
RE: Beware not to buy HP Prime, if you are engineer!
(05-11-2018 05:51 PM)Michael de Estrada Wrote:  
(05-11-2018 04:18 PM)Russel Wrote:  Also, keep in mind that the best calculator for one person (or engineer) may not be the best for someone else.

A lot of it is generational, too. I’m in my 70s and have been an RPN person all my life. Not being able to program in RPN/RPL is a deal breaker for me. As all us old RPN people retire, there is less and less demand for RPN programmability, and the Prime becomes more viable in the engineering market.

Is RPN/RPL really for for retired users/engineers? Btw, RPN/RPL is possible with the prime, settings, like the HP50G.

Optimus Prime will be with voice control, and hologram, very probably.
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05-11-2018, 07:32 PM
Post: #64
RE: Beware not to buy HP Prime, if you are engineer!
(05-11-2018 07:27 PM)dmmaster Wrote:  Btw, RPN/RPL is possible with the prime...
True.

(05-11-2018 07:27 PM)dmmaster Wrote:  ...like the HP50G.

In any meaningful way, not true, it's nothing like the HP50g. Smile

--Bob Prosperi
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05-11-2018, 07:36 PM
Post: #65
RE: Beware not to buy HP Prime, if you are engineer!
(05-11-2018 07:27 PM)dmmaster Wrote:  Btw, RPN/RPL is possible with the prime, settings, like the HP50G.

RPN is, not RPL. The Prime is programmed in HP-PPL.
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05-11-2018, 08:09 PM
Post: #66
RE: Beware not to buy HP Prime, if you are engineer!
(05-11-2018 07:36 PM)grsbanks Wrote:  
(05-11-2018 07:27 PM)dmmaster Wrote:  Btw, RPN/RPL is possible with the prime, settings, like the HP50G.

RPN is, not RPL. The Prime is programmed in HP-PPL.

Being modern will never kill anyone. Life's changing, technologies too,...
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05-11-2018, 08:37 PM
Post: #67
RE: Beware not to buy HP Prime, if you are engineer!
(05-11-2018 07:36 PM)grsbanks Wrote:  RPN is, not RPL.

It's actually somewhere in-between.

It has an 'unlimited' stack, so a bit like RPL, but doesn't support lists and other non-numeric values, so more like RPN. So, while a bit like this and a bit like that, it's not really much like either at all.

Oh, and no programming.... except in HPPL, which is however actually quite nice, once you master the foibles (this last little bit is only theory only for me; I have mastered nothing on the Prime).

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05-11-2018, 11:01 PM (This post was last modified: 05-11-2018 11:09 PM by Vtile.)
Post: #68
RE: Beware not to buy HP Prime, if you are engineer!
(05-11-2018 07:27 PM)dmmaster Wrote:  
(05-11-2018 05:51 PM)Michael de Estrada Wrote:  A lot of it is generational, too. I’m in my 70s and have been an RPN person all my life. Not being able to program in RPN/RPL is a deal breaker for me. As all us old RPN people retire, there is less and less demand for RPN programmability, and the Prime becomes more viable in the engineering market.

Is RPN/RPL really for for retired users/engineers? Btw, RPN/RPL is possible with the prime, settings, like the HP50G.

Optimus Prime will be with voice control, and hologram, very probably.

It not the age, I'm 40 years less experienced, but for my brains and how my head works the RP(L/N) reverse polish logic is spot on. I will not return to algebraic. Not at least as long I can get my hands a spare parts for 50g or equivalent machines. It is so sophisticated both in how the programs builds up from simple sub modules and how the actual calculations builds naturally up from sub modules.

Obviously I wouldn't want to program a monolithic windowing OS with the RPL, but for (interactive) mathematical environment it is a god like.
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05-11-2018, 11:44 PM
Post: #69
RE: Beware not to buy HP Prime, if you are engineer!
(05-11-2018 07:27 PM)dmmaster Wrote:  Is RPN/RPL really for for retired users/engineers?

RPN is for everyone. (Not just for four engineers.)
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05-12-2018, 12:32 AM
Post: #70
RE: Beware not to buy HP Prime, if you are engineer!
Any Purist RPNer who has ONCE type anything with ' ', EQW, MTRW has contributed and justified why Prime must exist and continue to do well as Hp retired your beloved 50g.
If Prime is sub par try take out O key from 50g.
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05-12-2018, 02:36 AM
Post: #71
RE: Beware not to buy HP Prime, if you are engineer!
(05-11-2018 08:37 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  
(05-11-2018 07:36 PM)grsbanks Wrote:  RPN is, not RPL.

It's actually somewhere in-between.

It has an 'unlimited' stack, so a bit like RPL...

Almost. Prime's RPN stack is limited to 128 levels (just like Prime's two other history stacks). When the RPN stack is full and something new is pushed onto the stack, the top level is lost, just like traditional RPN. But like RPL, when anything is dropped, the size of the stack shrinks instead of replicating the top level.

(05-11-2018 08:37 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  ... but doesn't support lists and other non-numeric values, so more like RPN.

Similar to RPL, Prime's RPN does support lists and other non-numeric values:

{ 1 2 3 } Enter 2 * --> { 2 4 6 }
"ha" Enter Enter + --> "haha"
(Like RPL, the first Enter terminates the command line, and the second Enter performs a DUP)

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05-12-2018, 05:04 AM (This post was last modified: 05-12-2018 05:06 AM by dmmaster.)
Post: #72
RE: Beware not to buy HP Prime, if you are engineer!
(05-12-2018 02:36 AM)Joe Horn Wrote:  
(05-11-2018 08:37 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  It's actually somewhere in-between.

It has an 'unlimited' stack, so a bit like RPL...

Almost. Prime's RPN stack is limited to 128 levels (just like Prime's two other history stacks). When the RPN stack is full and something new is pushed onto the stack, the top level is lost, just like traditional RPN. But like RPL, when anything is dropped, the size of the stack shrinks instead of replicating the top level.

(05-11-2018 08:37 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  ... but doesn't support lists and other non-numeric values, so more like RPN.

Similar to RPL, Prime's RPN does support lists and other non-numeric values:

{ 1 2 3 } Enter 2 * --> { 2 4 6 }
"ha" Enter Enter + --> "haha"
(Like RPL, the first Enter terminates the command line, and the second Enter performs a DUP)

The polish notation way of the very old HP calcs was cool.
Until HP50g that was cool.
Maybe the RPN is going to disappear?
(talking about reverse polish type until the retired HP50g)

Casio and TI have now a CAS, and HP slows down...
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01-13-2019, 07:29 AM
Post: #73
RE: Beware not to buy HP Prime, if you are engineer!
[/quote]There is no [1/X] on Primes keyboard it should be enough for a proof. Smile

What I have been wondering is that why it was not made in the way that it would have been delivered with two "memory boards" one for the educational phase with "lights for the exam mode and burned in ROM environment" and another board with more of the 48 mentality of do it all.

Still it doesn't have inverse key... no use.

I like it though, it is better in mechanical sense (from pictures) than what the 50g is and also the size of the unit is one step to the right direction .... smaller.
[/quote]
What about blue-shift and the divide key?
It shows x^-1, no?

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John
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01-14-2019, 03:30 AM
Post: #74
RE: Beware not to buy HP Prime, if you are engineer!
(05-05-2018 09:05 PM)Vtile Wrote:  
(05-05-2018 05:22 AM)Graham D. Wilson Wrote:  Exactly^^

I would love the Prime to be an open system, but suspect that would invalidate its use in education. I also would love to see the Prime turned into an RPL machine. The Prime's internal software system is nowhere near as elegant as the 48/49/50 series recursive stack/object design.

The Prime is HP's most powerful calculator. My Prime Home screen is permanently on RPN and I love being able to use the Prime's RPN interface for exploration, just as Bill Wickes described this power of RPN when he introduced the HP28S in his book.
The Prime's keyboard layout is simple and elegant, and reminds me of the 28S, which I really like. But the software interface is inelegant and cludgy: e.g. I'm amazed that after five years the Prime's soft keys aren't yet customisable. Why not?
There is no [1/X] on Primes keyboard it should be enough for a proof. Smile

What I have been wondering is that why it was not made in the way that it would have been delivered with two "memory boards" one for the educational phase with "lights for the exam mode and burned in ROM environment" and another board with more of the 48 mentality of do it all.

Still it doesn't have inverse key... no use.

I like it though, it is better in mechanical sense (from pictures) than what the 50g is and also the size of the unit is one step to the right direction .... smaller.

It has an inverse key, it is the blue shift of the divide key labeled x^-1 which is the same as inverse...
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01-25-2019, 07:18 PM
Post: #75
RE: Beware not to buy HP Prime, if you are engineer!
(05-05-2018 06:46 PM)pier4r Wrote:  yes the notation there is terrible, although the pointers are not bad (the site is full of ads though. I did not see it with javascript disabled).

This is better. https://www.fxsolver.com/browse/

Via google is pretty hard to get a good result like (https://www.fxsolver.com/browse/) I am unable to get a proper search string.

"collection engineering formulas" does not yield good results.

Wow! Great work at that site!!!

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01-25-2019, 08:38 PM
Post: #76
RE: Beware not to buy HP Prime, if you are engineer!
(05-11-2018 07:27 PM)dmmaster Wrote:  Btw, RPN/RPL is possible with the prime, settings, like the HP50G.

RPN is available but not RPL, AFAIK. RPN is the manual entry of equations and RPL is the programming language built on RPN. The Prime programming language is HPPL. Do you know of a way to program Prime in RPL?

Tom L

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01-25-2019, 09:41 PM (This post was last modified: 01-26-2019 12:20 AM by Jlouis.)
Post: #77
RE: Beware not to buy HP Prime, if you are engineer!
(01-25-2019 08:38 PM)toml_12953 Wrote:  
(05-11-2018 07:27 PM)dmmaster Wrote:  Btw, RPN/RPL is possible with the prime, settings, like the HP50G.

RPN is available but not RPL, AFAIK. RPN is the manual entry of equations and RPL is the programming language built on RPN. The Prime programming language is HPPL. Do you know of a way to program Prime in RPL?

Not until now.

Maybe one day Claudio L can port newRPL, who knows
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