71B documentation
02-28-2015, 09:44 PM (This post was last modified: 02-28-2015 09:45 PM by J-F Garnier.)
Post: #21
 J-F Garnier Senior Member Posts: 320 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: 71B documentation
(02-28-2015 08:35 PM)Mark Hardman Wrote:  I did find that I have a copy of the release version of the HP-71B HP-IL Internal Design Specification. The two volumes on the MoHPC flash drive are dated Jan. 1984; the cover page of Volume II even states "Version 1.0 - Preliminary". The copies that I have are dated Mar. 1983 and are clearly labelled as final release. Volume I is 10 pages longer and Volume II is 44 pages longer than the versions on the flash drive.

I have a paper version of the HP-IL IDS dated March 1984. There are just a few differences in the source code against the preliminary version of January 1984. I scanned the pages with the differences, can you check if this matches your version? : HP-IL IDS update

(02-28-2015 09:19 PM)Mark Hardman Wrote:  Let me finish rummaging through my storage unit. I might get lucky and find additional IDS/IMS volumes not on the MoHPC flash drive. We'll then know the size of the project and can divide up the scanning accordingly.

Yes, please check. I'm really really interested by the HP-71B IDS of version 2CCCC for documenting the differences vs 1BBBB. The 2CCCC IDS existed and were available for sale, see this leaflet!

J-F
02-28-2015, 10:05 PM
Post: #22
 rprosperi Senior Member Posts: 3,625 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: 71B documentation
(02-28-2015 08:35 PM)Mark Hardman Wrote:  I did find that I have a copy of the release version of the HP-71B HP-IL Internal Design Specification. The two volumes on the MoHPC flash drive are dated Jan. 1984; the cover page of Volume II even states "Version 1.0 - Preliminary". The copies that I have are dated Mar. 1983 and are clearly labelled as final release. Volume I is 10 pages longer and Volume II is 44 pages longer than the versions on the flash drive.

My copy of IDS Vol II is dated Dec 1983 on the title page, but on the back of the rear cover it is dated Feb 1984. This copy is printed 4-up duplex so page count is hard to define. How did you ascertain total page count to compare them?

If this copy is later, I'm happy to loan it for scanning, but don't currently have a scanner hooked-up.

I'm not sure how, but I've ended up with 2 copies of IDS Vol-II, but no copies of Vol-I. I'm sure I had Vol-III at some point, but 2" thick, 4-up, duplex source code listings seemed somehow not compelling enough to keep. Go figure.

Quote:I'll keep digging to see what else I can find.

Mark - If you run across a 41 Translator ROM Manual, I 'd very much like to buy it. (this goes for anyone reading as well btw)

--Bob Prosperi
02-28-2015, 10:12 PM
Post: #23
 rprosperi Senior Member Posts: 3,625 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: 71B documentation
(02-28-2015 08:12 PM)Didier Lachieze Wrote:  Are you referring to areuh?
If so the disk image is here.

I stand corrected - Perhaps JFG or Didier know if it's still around; wait - this just in - it seems it is still around. With Links for easy access!

Thanks Didier!

--Bob Prosperi
02-28-2015, 11:13 PM
Post: #24
 brouhaha Member Posts: 140 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: 71B documentation
(02-26-2015 08:23 PM)Valentin Albillo Wrote:  I would give an arm and a leg (i.e.: good money) for the HP-71B Math ROM IDS but I don't know if it's ever been published or even if it actually exists anymore.

I think it doesn't exist anymore because it didn't ever exist in the first place.
02-28-2015, 11:21 PM
Post: #25
 Mark Hardman Senior Member Posts: 484 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: 71B documentation
(02-28-2015 09:44 PM)J-F Garnier Wrote:
(02-28-2015 08:35 PM)Mark Hardman Wrote:  I did find that I have a copy of the release version of the HP-71B HP-IL Internal Design Specification. The two volumes on the MoHPC flash drive are dated Jan. 1984; the cover page of Volume II even states "Version 1.0 - Preliminary". The copies that I have are dated Mar. 19834 and are clearly labelled as final release. Volume I is 10 pages longer and Volume II is 44 pages longer than the versions on the flash drive.

I have a paper version of the HP-IL IDS dated March 1984. There are just a few differences in the source code against the preliminary version of January 1984. I scanned the pages with the differences, can you check if this matches your version? : HP-IL IDS update

Darn, I thought I had come across something new.

My original post has a typo; it should read "The copies that I have are dated Mar. 1984". The version I have appears to be the same as yours. Your scanned pages match mine exactly. Actually, it is a relief. I'd hate scanning and cropping all of those 4-up pages.

Your annotations are invaluable. Has this "diff scan" been submitted to Dave?

(02-28-2015 09:44 PM)J-F Garnier Wrote:
(02-28-2015 09:19 PM)Mark Hardman Wrote:  Let me finish rummaging through my storage unit. I might get lucky and find additional IDS/IMS volumes not on the MoHPC flash drive. We'll then know the size of the project and can divide up the scanning accordingly.

Yes, please check. I'm really really interested by the HP-71B IDS of version 2CCCC for documenting the differences vs 1BBBB. The 2CCCC IDS existed and were available for sale, see this leaflet!

J-F

I'm pretty sure I would have kept any HP-71 mainframe IDS with my collection of documentation at home. Then again, "hope springs eternal".

Ceci n'est pas une signature.
02-28-2015, 11:36 PM (This post was last modified: 02-28-2015 11:40 PM by Mark Hardman.)
Post: #26
 Mark Hardman Senior Member Posts: 484 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: 71B documentation
(02-28-2015 10:05 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  My copy of IDS Vol II is dated Dec 1983 on the title page, but on the back of the rear cover it is dated Feb 1984. This copy is printed 4-up duplex so page count is hard to define. How did you ascertain total page count to compare them?

If this copy is later, I'm happy to loan it for scanning, but don't currently have a scanner hooked-up.

I'm not sure how, but I've ended up with 2 copies of IDS Vol-II, but no copies of Vol-I. I'm sure I had Vol-III at some point, but 2" thick, 4-up, duplex source code listings seemed somehow not compelling enough to keep. Go figure.

As I mentioned above, my original post should have listed a publishing date of Mar. 1984. Sorry for the confusion. Since you mention volumes I, II and III, I think you are referencing the HP-71 mainframe IDS. The HP-IL IDS has only two volumes.

(02-28-2015 10:05 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  Mark - If you run across a 41 Translator ROM Manual, I 'd very much like to buy it. (this goes for anyone reading as well btw)

I do have one copy of the HP-41 Translator Pac for the HP-71 Owner's Manual. I would gladly trade it for the 41 Translator Pac's overlay. ;-)

Ceci n'est pas une signature.
03-01-2015, 12:03 AM (This post was last modified: 03-01-2015 12:03 AM by rprosperi.)
Post: #27
 rprosperi Senior Member Posts: 3,625 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: 71B documentation
(02-28-2015 11:36 PM)Mark Hardman Wrote:  As I mentioned above, my original post should have listed a publishing date of Mar. 1984. Sorry for the confusion. Since you mention volumes I, II and III, I think you are referencing the HP-71 mainframe IDS. The HP-IL IDS has only two volumes.
Oops, quite right my mistake. As I saw JFG's comments about seeking 2CCCC listings, I thought you were describing mainframe IDS.

Quote:I do have one copy of the HP-41 Translator Pac for the HP-71 Owner's Manual. I would gladly trade it for the 41 Translator Pac's overlay. ;-)

Well now.... how about a high-res scan copy of the translator overlay plus 2 blank overlays to copy the key assignments onto (either draft/final or final/spare, depending on your hand) plus some other docs or similar depending on your interests? Reply by PM, not too interesting for most others.

--Bob Prosperi
03-01-2015, 12:52 AM
Post: #28
 Dave Frederickson Senior Member Posts: 1,680 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: 71B documentation
(03-01-2015 12:03 AM)rprosperi Wrote:
(02-28-2015 11:36 PM)Mark Hardman Wrote:  I do have one copy of the HP-41 Translator Pac for the HP-71 Owner's Manual. I would gladly trade it for the 41 Translator Pac's overlay. ;-)

Well now.... how about a high-res scan copy of the translator overlay plus 2 blank overlays to copy the key assignments onto (either draft/final or final/spare, depending on your hand) plus some other docs or similar depending on your interests? Reply by PM, not too interesting for most others.

I'll match whatever Bob offers plus $5 ... and a 22S. Dave 03-01-2015, 03:54 AM Post: #29  Mark Hardman Senior Member Posts: 484 Joined: Dec 2013 RE: 71B documentation (03-01-2015 12:52 AM)Dave Frederickson Wrote: I'll match whatever Bob offers plus$5 ... and a 22S.

Dave

I have a feeling I've lost a good number of eBay auctions to you, Dave.

Ceci n'est pas une signature.
03-01-2015, 04:03 AM
Post: #30
 Mark Hardman Senior Member Posts: 484 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: 71B documentation
(02-28-2015 10:12 PM)rprosperi Wrote:
(02-28-2015 08:12 PM)Didier Lachieze Wrote:  Are you referring to areuh?
If so the disk image is here.

I stand corrected - Perhaps JFG or Didier know if it's still around; wait - this just in - it seems it is still around. With Links for easy access!

Thanks Didier!

Unfortunately, areuh appears to not have a disassembler.

On page 90 of the HP 82478A Debugger Owner's Manual, it makes reference to "The Disassembler". I'm not sure if this can only run on the HP-71 using one of the Debug LEX files. I have the Debugger LEX files on 5-1/4" or 3-1/2" floppy disks (also compliments of TSA). But, I'm sure that JFG already has a copy of this disk image.

Ceci n'est pas une signature.
03-01-2015, 04:23 AM
Post: #31
 rprosperi Senior Member Posts: 3,625 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: 71B documentation
(03-01-2015 04:03 AM)Mark Hardman Wrote:  On page 90 of the HP 82478A Debugger Owner's Manual, it makes reference to "The Disassembler". I'm not sure if this can only run on the HP-71 using one of the Debug LEX files. I have the Debugger LEX files on 5-1/4" or 3-1/2" floppy disks (also compliments of TSA). But, I'm sure that JFG already has a copy of this disk image.

Yes, the Debugger s/w is a set of LEX files that only runs on the 71B with the Forth ROM installed, sort-of layered over the HC ROM and LEX files in the SC ROM. The 71B Forth/Assembler tools work, but are slow and quite limited by the available RAM, which is what lead to the creation of the areuh tools, originally built on UNIX. I'm fairly sure all the internal HP tools used to build the 71 and ROMs were also UNIX-based and I don't recall them ever leaking out into the wild.

--Bob Prosperi
03-01-2015, 04:33 AM
Post: #32
 Han Senior Member Posts: 1,811 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: 71B documentation
(02-28-2015 08:12 PM)Didier Lachieze Wrote:  I
(02-28-2015 07:56 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  There was a PC-based (perhaps only unix?) tool suite for the 71B from the PPC group in France. Perhaps JFG knows if this is still around somewhere?
Are you referring to areuh?
If so the disk image is here.

The readme and the tarball appears damaged.

Graph 3D | QPI | SolveSys
03-01-2015, 06:22 AM
Post: #33
 Dave Frederickson Senior Member Posts: 1,680 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: 71B documentation
(03-01-2015 03:54 AM)Mark Hardman Wrote:
(03-01-2015 12:52 AM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:  I'll match whatever Bob offers plus \$5 ... and a 22S.

Dave

I have a feeling I've lost a good number of eBay auctions to you, Dave.

Probably not, but thanks for the compliment.

To avoid those situations someone suggested that we let our friends know when we're bidding on an eBay item. Kind of like calling dibs. Since then I can't recall any bidding wars between us. It works the other way, too. Just today I tipped off some friends about an Ultra Rare item that appeared on eBay and one of them quickly snatched up.

Dave
03-01-2015, 08:35 AM (This post was last modified: 03-01-2015 08:45 AM by J-F Garnier.)
Post: #34
 J-F Garnier Senior Member Posts: 320 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: 71B documentation
(02-28-2015 11:21 PM)Mark Hardman Wrote:
(02-28-2015 09:44 PM)J-F Garnier Wrote:  I have a paper version of the HP-IL IDS dated March 1984. There are just a few differences in the source code against the preliminary version of January 1984. I scanned the pages with the differences, can you check if this matches your version? : HP-IL IDS update

Darn, I thought I had come across something new.

My original post has a typo; it should read "The copies that I have are dated Mar. 1984". The version I have appears to be the same as yours. Your scanned pages match mine exactly. Actually, it is a relief. I'd hate scanning and cropping all of those 4-up pages.

It may still be interesting to scan the whole 'March 1984' edition, for completeness of the MoHPC archives . There are also some (relatively) minor changes in the Volume I of the IDS in the description of the HP-IL module features.
I admit that I was not ready to scan my entire copy :-)

Quote:Your annotations are invaluable. Has this "diff scan" been submitted to Dave?
Not explicitly, but all what is on my site is free information.

J-F
03-01-2015, 05:01 PM
Post: #35
 rprosperi Senior Member Posts: 3,625 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: 71B documentation
(03-01-2015 04:33 AM)Han Wrote:
(02-28-2015 08:12 PM)Didier Lachieze Wrote:  I Are you referring to areuh?
If so the disk image is here.

The readme and the tarball appears damaged.

Indeed, both are damaged. I went "up" a level and downloaded the entire AREUH folder and copied all the files, which it appears may comprise what was in the tarball.

In full truth, I went up a level above that and copied everything under /hp48sx. I'm not sure who is/was hosting this stuff, but last update notes were around 1993.

When I find (or in this case, are nicely handed ) a site like this, I grab all I can as these sites are all going away.

Example: In the last year, the awesome RPL website by Prof Rautenberg (U Berlin) with some of the best 48/49/50 stuff I've ever seen simply went away overnight. Luckily, I grabbed everything on the site only about 2 weeks before.

--Bob Prosperi
03-01-2015, 05:07 PM
Post: #36
 Dave Frederickson Senior Member Posts: 1,680 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: 71B documentation
This copy of the areuh is intact.
03-01-2015, 05:17 PM
Post: #37
 Didier Lachieze Senior Member Posts: 1,143 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: 71B documentation
(03-01-2015 05:07 PM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:  This copy of the areuh is intact.

The README file is also corrupted (see at the end of the file).
03-01-2015, 06:08 PM
Post: #38
 Dave Frederickson Senior Member Posts: 1,680 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: 71B documentation
(03-01-2015 05:17 PM)Didier Lachieze Wrote:
(03-01-2015 05:07 PM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:  This copy of the areuh is intact.

The README file is also corrupted (see at the end of the file).

SASM adn AREUH were among the swapdisks. Maybe someone has a copy.

Code:
 [  ] CHHU01 - 261 files HP-75 : 105, HP-41 :  45, HP-71 : 111 [  ] CHHU02 - 294 Files HP-75 : 133, HP-41 :  82, HP-71 :  79 [  ] CHHU03 - 392 Files HP-75 :  99, HP-41 : 242, HP-71 :  51 [  ] CHHU04 - 166 Files HP-75 :   9, HP-41 :   9, HP-71 : 148 [  ] CHHU05 - 217 Files HP-75 :   0, HP-41 :   1, HP-71 : 216 [  ] CHHU06 - 135 Files HP-75 :  24, HP-41 :  10, HP-71 : 101 [  ] GRAPHS -  14 Files HP-75 :   0, HP-41 :   0, HP-71 :  14 [  ] SWAPGB - 157 Files HP-75 :  68, HP-41 :  19, HP-71 :  70 [  ] SWAP07 - 111 Files HP-75 :   0, HP-41 :   0, HP-71 : 111 [  ] SWAP08 -  88 Files HP-75 :  14, HP-41 :  10, HP-71 :  64 [  ] SASM   - DOS DISK - Handheld Product's HP-71 Cross Assembler [  ] AREUH  - DOS DISK - HP-71 DEVELOPMENT SYSTEM Assembler-Linker [  ] SWIT04 -  44 Files HP-75 Visual Editor, ver. 3.0, CHHU-ITALY [  ] SWIT05 - 111 Files HP-71 Visual Editor, ver. 2.0, CHHU-ITALY [  ] JPC01  - 248 HP-71 Files from the Journal of the Paris Chapter 4/84-5/85 [  ] JPC02  - 102 HP-71 Files from the Journal of the Paris Chapter 5/85-???? [  ] SWAP09 -  91 Files - Preliminary release 01/88 [  ] SWAPDK - 331 Files HP-75 :  32, HP-41 : 246, HP-71 :  53
03-01-2015, 06:14 PM
Post: #39
 rprosperi Senior Member Posts: 3,625 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: 71B documentation
(03-01-2015 05:07 PM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:  This copy of the areuh is intact.

(03-01-2015 05:17 PM)Didier Lachieze Wrote:
(03-01-2015 05:07 PM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:  This copy of the areuh is intact.

The README file is also corrupted (see at the end of the file).

The zip file is actually intact with no damage, which means the author of the zip file simply included a corrupt readme when he/she created it. I checked and the 2 corrupted readme files are identical, so likely author of the zip took the individual files from the ftp site and built a zip to replace the tarball.

The good news is the damaged portion relates to porting these tools, something not likely to happen.

One of the most interesting comments from the areuh authors is that they built the DOS port to encourage a larger set of folks to write and contribute more 71B software, but that they had no plans to use it themselves. A very generous attitude indeed.

--Bob Prosperi
03-02-2015, 02:50 AM
Post: #40
 Sylvain Cote Senior Member Posts: 1,140 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: 71B documentation
(03-01-2015 06:22 AM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:  Just today I tipped off some friends about an Ultra Rare item that appeared on eBay and one of them quickly snatched up.
And that friend, who is very privileged to be called friend, is very very grateful about the tip. Thanks again Dave. 8-)
 « Next Oldest | Next Newest »

User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)