ACT available
01-13-2015, 09:37 AM (This post was last modified: 01-13-2015 10:16 AM by PANAMATIK.)
Post: #41
 PANAMATIK Senior Member Posts: 882 Joined: Oct 2014
RE: ACT available
(01-12-2015 10:45 PM)PANAMATIK Wrote:  Also a HP-22 will arrive tomorrow, and HP-27 next week.

Sorry for quoting myself! But the HP-22 arrived today and it has the same board as HP-25, so no surprise, the new ACT is working! Some major firmware modification will be necessary: adding the letter 2 for showing HP-22 in the display.

Now there are lounging around three useless healthy original ACTs here.

HP-21,HP-25,HP-25C,HP-22 approved! HP-27..... HP-29C....

Addendum: I just tested, HP-25 firmware is running on HP-22 boards without any modification. You just need an HP-25 overlay!

Bernhard
01-13-2015, 10:22 AM
Post: #42
 walter b On Vacation Posts: 1,957 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: ACT available
(01-13-2015 09:37 AM)PANAMATIK Wrote:  Some major firmware modification will be necessary: adding the letter 2 for showing HP-22 in the display.

Should be easy whith the ability to display HP-25.

d;-)
01-16-2015, 01:46 PM
Post: #43
 PANAMATIK Senior Member Posts: 882 Joined: Oct 2014
RE: ACT available
(01-13-2015 02:31 AM)walter b Wrote:
(01-12-2015 10:45 PM)PANAMATIK Wrote:  I acquired a defective HP-29C yesterday, not yet delivered. But now we have the same goal. I think it will not be defective for ever!

I'm anxiously looking forward to your further activities in this matter.

d:-)

Hi Walter

I received the defective HP29C today. Its display remained dark after switching on. Then I opened it, not even cleaned contacts for one minute, switched on again: and it started!!. They betrayed me again by telling its a defective HP-29C.

Now, what to do? Who in this forum ever removed an ACT chip from a perfect working HP29C. Do I have to be the first? Or shall I wait for another one? Maybe I will get a collector without wanting to be one.

Bernhard
01-16-2015, 02:33 PM
Post: #44
 walter b On Vacation Posts: 1,957 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: ACT available
(01-16-2015 01:46 PM)PANAMATIK Wrote:  I received the defective HP29C today. Its display remained dark after switching on. Then I opened it, not even cleaned contacts for one minute, switched on again: and it started!!. They betrayed me again by telling its a defective HP-29C.

Congratulations! A very welcome event - and very rare as well.

Quote:Now, what to do? Who in this forum ever removed an ACT chip from a perfect working HP29C. Do I have to be the first? Or shall I wait for another one?

As mentioned earlier, I've got a defective HP-29C. If you want, I can send it to you for testing, provided I get it back thereafter. Of course, I won't complain if it will work then. Do you agree that's a fair offer?

d:-)
01-16-2015, 02:51 PM
Post: #45
 PANAMATIK Senior Member Posts: 882 Joined: Oct 2014
RE: ACT available
(01-16-2015 02:33 PM)walter b Wrote:  As mentioned earlier, I've got a defective HP-29C. If you want, I can send it to you for testing, provided I get it back thereafter. Of course, I won't complain if it will work then. Do you agree that's a fair offer?

d:-)

Yes, a fair offer, provided the defectiveness it is not outside the following window: contact problem with the On/Off switch or battery is outside the window at the lower end , board smashed into pieces or burned by fire is outside the window at the upper end.

It would be a great honor and my responsibility to send this item back to you in better condition, than it arrives, however no promise possible and needs some time.

Bernhard
01-16-2015, 09:59 PM
Post: #46
 Mark Hardman Senior Member Posts: 482 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: ACT available
(01-16-2015 01:46 PM)PANAMATIK Wrote:  Now, what to do? Who in this forum ever removed an ACT chip from a perfect working HP29C. Do I have to be the first? Or shall I wait for another one? Maybe I will get a collector without wanting to be one.

Bernhard

You are going to have the same conundrum when the HP-27 arrives. It appears to have just cleared Customs in Germany.

Ceci n'est pas une signature.
01-16-2015, 10:32 PM (This post was last modified: 01-16-2015 10:33 PM by PANAMATIK.)
Post: #47
 PANAMATIK Senior Member Posts: 882 Joined: Oct 2014
RE: ACT available
(01-16-2015 09:59 PM)Mark Hardman Wrote:  You are going to have the same conundrum when the HP-27 arrives.

Yes, its getting worse, but doctors need to experiment on living patients sometimes. I wonder, do collectors want to kill a person, who opens and retrieve the healthy heart from a previously untouched collectible item? Does a collectible item loose value if the chip was removed and put in again?

There will be the ultimate question about this matter when I'm going to open the sealed ceramic of a healthy HP-01.

Bernhard
01-25-2015, 08:29 PM (This post was last modified: 03-14-2015 12:40 AM by PANAMATIK.)
Post: #48
 PANAMATIK Senior Member Posts: 882 Joined: Oct 2014
RE: ACT available
Finally released!

When I announced in my first post here the availability of a new "ACT chip" for january 2015, I estimated right, but I really didn't know how many work there was still ahead of me from the first prototype to the usable product that not only I could use. And I appreciate the patience, that you had, waiting for this little new part related to the old HP calculators. And also many many thanks to some participants, who gave me a calcuator for testing or gave their knowledge and positive response.

After the prototype, which just restored the original function, and seemed to be complete, I couldn't resist to add new features, up to the limit of the possibilities of ROM and RAM of the PIC processor I used. This costs me many days of developing and debugging. And forced me to write an adequate documentation, which needed some more days or weeks, not least because I wrote it in english, which is not my primary language. Now after all this is done, I feel also a relief that all what I could do is done for the first step. The next step will be analyzing the hardware and firmware of the HP-97 or other calculators for which I really liked to have time, but don't have it.

I will receive the ACTs from my manufacturer on monday and, other than announced before, I decided to ship them now internationally, because on all woodstock calculators I tried, they did work well electrically. Only software issues must be solved to use them also in HP-29C and probably other models, which are not yet supported. I really enjoy and sometimes don't really believe it myself, that this chip can work in a way, that even I cannot see from outside, whether there is the original or the replacement ACT inside.

Here is what you get.

http://www.panamatik.de/html/hp_calculat...r_kit.html

After reading you can decide, whether you want to order one of it. There is a "Standard version" and an "Extended version" especially and only for the HP-25.

If you are asking why the price for this little circuit is more than a new modern HP calculator, I can only tell you that it is not a mass product and I would liked having made it cheaper, but I cannot produce it by myself and I don't know the real demand for it.

Im very busy in working now on other projects, that were behind, not at last because of my work for the ACT. But it was very satisfying at all and there are still many options for the future.

Thanks for your interesting comments and posts all around here. And I hope I made something that is fitting in all this here.

Bernhard
01-25-2015, 08:48 PM
Post: #49
 walter b On Vacation Posts: 1,957 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: ACT available
Great work!! Thanks for it!

Maybe I've overlooked it: with your new ACT, can an HP-25 be operated connected to the mains regardless of its battery status now?

d:-?
01-25-2015, 08:53 PM
Post: #50
 PANAMATIK Senior Member Posts: 882 Joined: Oct 2014
RE: ACT available
(01-25-2015 08:48 PM)walter b Wrote:  Great work!! Thanks for it!

Maybe I've overlooked it: with your new ACT, can an HP-25 be operated connected to the mains regardless of its battery status now?

d:-?

The new ACT is not in danger, but the other HP components still could be. I tried it for some seconds, the display flickers and it will not work for calculations without batteries, but there was no damage.

Bernhard
01-25-2015, 10:06 PM (This post was last modified: 01-25-2015 10:12 PM by PANAMATIK.)
Post: #51
 PANAMATIK Senior Member Posts: 882 Joined: Oct 2014
RE: ACT available
(01-16-2015 02:33 PM)walter b Wrote:  As mentioned earlier, I've got a defective HP-29C. If you want, I can send it to you for testing, provided I get it back thereafter. Of course, I won't complain if it will work then. Do you agree that's a fair offer?

d:-)

Perhaps also somebody else here is interested in the results. The actual state is following: The original ACT is not damaged.The calculator can be switched on and some calculations like ln, sin, sqrt etc. can be made. But the RAM chips don't work. The HP-29C does use the RAMs more intensely than the HP-25, even for the basic calculations. And because the RAMs read always zero, pressing the ENTER key produces zero, the registers are always zero, the 98 program steps are empty and even the number format is always fixed 0 and you cannot display your results.

I unsoldered the ACT and can use it in an HP-25 perfectly.

Then I inserted the new ACT into the HP-29C. I got the display running immediately. But it needed some modifications, increasing RAM size by factor three, which luckily was still there, and changing the SYNC signal, then the original firmware also started up. In RUN mode I have now a perfect working HP-29C. Unfortunately the PRGM mode does not work. Eric told me before, that there are some unknows of the ACT concerning label search in programs of the later models, that are not yet discovered and therefore don't work in "nonpareil". And indeed I can use every keystroke function in programs, except GTO Lbl or GSB Lbl, that end which a crash.
But I'm very confident, that I can modify the emulator in the near future to get this issue fixed, then the new ACT will also find its way into the HP-29C and consequently there will be a HP-29C app for iOS, MAC OSX and all the other platforms shortly thereafter.

Bernhard
01-25-2015, 10:08 PM
Post: #52
 rprosperi Senior Member Posts: 3,308 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: ACT available
(01-25-2015 08:29 PM)PANAMATIK Wrote:  When I announced in my first post here the availability of a new "ACT chip" for january 2015, I estimated right...
Bernhard

Congratulations Bernhard!! A very large accomplishment in a relatively short time. I currently have no non-working Woodstock's, but feel much better knowing they can live on with a new ACT should it be needed.

Of course, this will also raise the prices of "for parts only" machines on eBay, as many threads here have shown that (except for power w/o battery) this is the dominant failure mode.

It would be nice to add HP-27 support too, but I know you need machines to work on and these are rare indeed. I would send a working one for you to examine, but unfortnately have not acquired one at all.

After a very quick read-through, I must say you've also provided a very nice manual.

The notes in the appendix say the ROM code for the 21, 22 and 25 are available for download, but I could not find them in the download area, and the rest of the site seems to be in German (which I unfortunately cannot read). Are these disassembled code listings or binary rom dumps? If the former, please post links. I guess please post them anyhow, it's just a matter of time before someone else asks.

Thank you for a very cool project/product.

--Bob Prosperi
01-25-2015, 10:23 PM (This post was last modified: 01-25-2015 10:51 PM by PANAMATIK.)
Post: #53
 PANAMATIK Senior Member Posts: 882 Joined: Oct 2014
RE: ACT available
(01-25-2015 10:08 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  It would be nice to add HP-27 support too, but I know you need machines to work on and these are rare indeed. I would send a working one for you to examine, but unfortunately have not acquired one at all.

A HP-27 is under way to me. Thanks to another kind member here.

(01-25-2015 10:08 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  The notes in the appendix say the ROM code for the 21, 22 and 25 are available for download, but I could not find them in the download area, and the rest of the site seems to be in German (which I unfortunately cannot read). Are these disassembled code listings or binary rom dumps? If the former, please post links. I guess please post them anyhow, it's just a matter of time before someone else asks.

I will add the download links soon - added! -. These are ROM dumps, which I made with the new ACT. The listing format can be used easily in a .asm or .c file for compiling.

Bernhard
01-26-2015, 09:22 PM
Post: #54
 PANAMATIK Senior Member Posts: 882 Joined: Oct 2014
RE: ACT available
(01-25-2015 10:08 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  Of course, this will also raise the prices of "for parts only" machines on eBay, as many threads here have shown that (except for power w/o battery) this is the dominant failure mode.

Raising prices is not what I intended and I'm not sure whether that happens. If the "for parts only" machines were bought, hoping to find a healthy ACT inside, then their prices will stay the same, because my ACT is more expensive. I think my ACT will not change prices. Sometimes you can find a working HP-25 cheaper than 50$sometimes higher than 100$ or more. For me it was not an option to buy another HP-25 but to repair my own calculator. Knowing that a repair is now always possible, without making another vintage calculator dead, makes the difference.

(01-25-2015 10:08 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  After a very quick read-through, I must say you've also provided a very nice manual.

I worked hard on this manual, and I rewrote chapters, because I changed the firmware several times, before I made this final release now.

Thank you.

Bernhard
01-26-2015, 09:45 PM
Post: #55
 rprosperi Senior Member Posts: 3,308 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: ACT available
(01-26-2015 09:22 PM)PANAMATIK Wrote:  Raising prices is not what I intended...

I was reallly joking about ebay. The really great thing about your solution is it lets someone fix their original Woodstock machine, in the case of ACT failure. Of course you may be able to buy another for parts, etc. but as you say, that usually removes another vintage machine from service. I've also noticed that no replacement machine ever feels as good as my original one, even if the new one is technically better.

(01-26-2015 09:22 PM)PANAMATIK Wrote:  I worked hard on this manual, and I rewrote chapters, because I changed the firmware several times, before I made this final release now.

The time and care you put into the manual really shows. Adding in all the key images is very tedious, but it makes the manual both exactly clear, and also enjoyable. Thanks for that.

--Bob Prosperi
01-28-2015, 09:10 AM (This post was last modified: 01-28-2015 09:14 AM by PANAMATIK.)
Post: #56
 PANAMATIK Senior Member Posts: 882 Joined: Oct 2014
RE: ACT available
(01-26-2015 09:45 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  The time and care you put into the manual really shows. Adding in all the key images is very tedious, but it makes the manual both exactly clear, and also enjoyable. Thanks for that.

Hi rprosperi

The manual needs a revision. I have to add at least two new paragraphs, for two new features I programmed yesterday.

The HP-25 converts into an half-alphanumeric calculator now, although with reduced character set, due to the segment drivers limitation. You can edit a 12-digit welcome string with all numeric digits, and - r F o E G H P I A B d L S. All characters can be displayed with decimal dot.

You can easily enter HI rProSPErI. I envy that, because I can only write BEr.HArd.

Second new chapter is hex and octal display. The HP-25 converts into a programmers calculator. Any positive and negative 32-bit integer number can be displayed in 8 digit hex and 11 digit octal with a second keystroke when its mantissa is displayed.

The Hex character set is 0123456789A1.2.dEF, dots add ten to the digit. B is 1 with dot, C is 2 with dot. Im working on hex entry now for converting to decimal.

I didn't expect, that there were still useful features to add. But hex conversion was definitely missing in my HP-25 for daily work.

The first ACTs from the series production were tested and they are doing fine.

BEr.HArd
01-28-2015, 02:19 PM
Post: #57
 rprosperi Senior Member Posts: 3,308 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: ACT available
(01-28-2015 09:10 AM)PANAMATIK Wrote:  You can edit a 12-digit welcome string with all numeric digits, and - r F o E G H P I A B d L S. All characters can be displayed with decimal dot.

You can easily enter HI rProSPErI. I envy that, because I can only write BEr.HArd.

Second new chapter is hex and octal display. The HP-25 converts into a programmers calculator. Any positive and negative 32-bit integer number can be displayed in 8 digit hex and 11 digit octal with a second keystroke when its mantissa is displayed.

The Hex character set is 0123456789A1.2.dEF, dots add ten to the digit. B is 1 with dot, C is 2 with dot. Im working on hex entry now for converting to decimal.

Creating new words with traditionally available "characters" on LED calculators stabilized a long time ago; I suspect no new words have been "found" in a very long time. Your new alphabet introduces a whole new vocabulary!

Also, Hex mode is indeed a useful addition. I guess this is becomming an HP-25C+.

Thanks very much,

--Bob rProSPErI

--Bob Prosperi
01-28-2015, 02:28 PM
Post: #58
 walter b On Vacation Posts: 1,957 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: ACT available
FYI, in App. E of the WP 34S manual you find "our" 7-segment character set.

d:-)

01-28-2015, 05:04 PM (This post was last modified: 01-28-2015 05:10 PM by PANAMATIK.)
Post: #59
 PANAMATIK Senior Member Posts: 882 Joined: Oct 2014
RE: ACT available
(01-28-2015 02:28 PM)walter b Wrote:  FYI, in App. E of the WP 34S manual you find "our" 7-segment character set.

d:-)

Thanks for this wonderful character set, where you had the freedom to control every of the seven segments separately. The woodstocks don't do me this pleasure. The only way to create words is to use the 5! letters that are available and to toggle some of them to create some more. The result is a half-alphabet with 13 characters (described in the manual V1.01 coming soon).

Your character set is missng lower case k which could be represented wit segments a,c,e,f,g

If I will announce "SDC available" (Segment Driver Control) in another thread then I will copy your character set.

Bernhard
01-29-2015, 08:54 PM
Post: #60
 Dieter Senior Member Posts: 2,401 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: ACT available
Hallo, Bernhard –

(01-28-2015 09:10 AM)PANAMATIK Wrote:  You can edit a 12-digit welcome string with all numeric digits, and - r F o E G H P I A B d L S.
(...)
The Hex character set is 0123456789A1.2.dEF, dots add ten to the digit. B is 1 with dot, C is 2 with dot.

Hmm... wouldn't it make more sense to add a (lowercase) b and c for displaying hex numbers, even if two other characters like H or P would have to be dropped? Yes, this way you would lose the "HP" greeting. Which of course is nice, but it is worth more than a decent hex display? Just my 2 cents... ;-)

BTW - I own a 29C that suddenly stopped working. It turns on, but all it displays is a row of zeroes: 0000000000. No, the batteries were never charged inside the calculator (in fact I used two standard AA NiMHs with an external charger). But maybe you can say if this is symptomatic for a defectice ACT chip?!

Dieter
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