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Idea for simulator: real speed menu
12-10-2017, 02:11 PM
Post: #1
Idea for simulator: real speed menu
Hello
please create an option in the simulator (real speed menu) that simulates the default speed of the calculator, for the purpose of testing programs exactly as they would look in the physical device

Thanks

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12-10-2017, 03:06 PM
Post: #2
RE: Idea for simulator: real speed menu
Compsystem,
Have you thought about the costs that HP has to make to program all your change requests.
I think that HP is not a philanthropic institution, just a (very fine) commercial company.
Please be realistic!

— Dirk Hartland
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12-10-2017, 03:53 PM
Post: #3
RE: Idea for simulator: real speed menu
I imagine accurately running a program at the correct speed on all platforms would be a lot of work, and most people would not require that.

A simpler approach that might be useful would be to have a programmable SLOWER functionality that implements a short WAIT after each statement.

Compared to running the simulation at the exact speed for the whole program this has the following advantages :
1 Much less work for HP than timing all instructions and getting all platforms to match for all instructions.
2 Programmer can change the speed during a program (making games easier or more difficult; doing faster calculations and keeping the user interface relatively fixed, etc.).
3 For debugging purposes, you could run slower-than-normal (checking screen printout that goes offscreen before it is read, without having to litter your code with WAITs).

Stephen Lewkowicz (G1CMZ)
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12-10-2017, 04:01 PM
Post: #4
RE: Idea for simulator: real speed menu
(12-10-2017 03:06 PM)Dirk.nl Wrote:  Compsystem,
Have you thought about the costs that HP has to make to program all your change requests.
I think that HP is not a philanthropic institution, just a (very fine) commercial company.
Please be realistic!

I second this point.

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12-11-2017, 06:05 AM
Post: #5
RE: Idea for simulator: real speed menu
Hello,

In the old time, on PC, people made programs/games that were not timed. The result was that when faster PC became available, these games became unuseable (too fast).

Prime is the same thing. It is a platform for HP and it has many incarnations.
There is the physical calculator, but also the various emulators (PC, mac, Android, IOS), all running at various speeds. Prime also comes from the HP 39GII+. And although Prime has progresses a lot since then, they used to be compatible.

As a result, program creator have to take this diversity into concideration and make speed sensitive programs able to cope with the various intrinsic speeds.

Sorry.

Cyrille

Although I work for the HP calculator group, the views and opinions I post here are my own. I do not speak for HP.
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12-11-2017, 12:34 PM
Post: #6
RE: Idea for simulator: real speed menu
(12-10-2017 03:06 PM)Dirk.nl Wrote:  Compsystem,
Have you thought about the costs that HP has to make to program all your change requests.
I think that HP is not a philanthropic institution, just a (very fine) commercial company.
Please be realistic!

They're just suggestions! How is HP going to know what people want if no one tells them? Compsystem doesn't demand anything, just tells what would be nice to have. Blue-sky, if you will. If I was a company, I'd welcome Compsystem's requests. That doesn't mean I'd try to implement all or even any of them. They'd still be valuable, however. In this particular case, other emulators for PCs have a throttle that let's them run at approximately the same speed as the physical calculator so the request isn't so far-out that it isn't possible.

Tom L

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12-11-2017, 12:58 PM (This post was last modified: 12-11-2017 01:01 PM by chromos.)
Post: #7
RE: Idea for simulator: real speed menu
(12-11-2017 12:34 PM)toml_12953 Wrote:  
(12-10-2017 03:06 PM)Dirk.nl Wrote:  Compsystem,
Have you thought about the costs that HP has to make to program all your change requests.
I think that HP is not a philanthropic institution, just a (very fine) commercial company.
Please be realistic!

They're just suggestions! How is HP going to know what people want if no one tells them? Compsystem doesn't demand anything, just tells what would be nice to have. Blue-sky, if you will. If I was a company, I'd welcome Compsystem's requests. That doesn't mean I'd try to implement all or even any of them. They'd still be valuable, however. In this particular case, other emulators for PCs have a throttle that let's them run at approximately the same speed as the physical calculator so the request isn't so far-out that it isn't possible.

If Compsystem's posts are suggestions then Dirk.nl's 'Please be realistic!' is suggestion as well.

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12-11-2017, 01:08 PM
Post: #8
RE: Idea for simulator: real speed menu
(12-11-2017 12:34 PM)toml_12953 Wrote:  They're just suggestions!

Yes and no.

If one collects them in one thread it is ok in my opinion. If one wants to check for feedback from the user X, one can check that thread. There is not much clutter and that's it.

If one, instead, "spams" them in a new topic every time it clutters the forum section and the usability by other people (unless the forum is called "feature requests"). That is also not so great.

Asking is always the easy part.

Then it comes the moment when the suggestion stream becomes a bit too arrogant/complaining (see request to take over the project of Mr. Parisse), and that's also not so great.

I personally I would prefer either a single thread with all feature requests from user X, or a bit more contributions, not only requests (that, as wrote, are the easy part).

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12-11-2017, 01:33 PM
Post: #9
RE: Idea for simulator: real speed menu
(12-11-2017 01:08 PM)pier4r Wrote:  ...
I personally I would prefer either a single thread with all feature requests from user X, or a bit more contributions, not only requests (that, as wrote, are the easy part).

Maybe something like this thread, that's devoted to suggestions...

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12-11-2017, 02:04 PM
Post: #10
RE: Idea for simulator: real speed menu
(12-11-2017 01:33 PM)salvomic Wrote:  Maybe something like this thread, that's devoted to suggestions...
Oh so there is already. Therefore I don't see the reason to ignore it.

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12-11-2017, 02:27 PM
Post: #11
RE: Idea for simulator: real speed menu
(12-11-2017 02:04 PM)pier4r Wrote:  ...Therefore I don't see the reason to ignore it.

yes, you're right Smile

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12-11-2017, 10:28 PM
Post: #12
RE: Idea for simulator: real speed menu
I don't think it's very difficult. Everything you need is a x86-cpu emulator (for windows) and control the CPU speed in the emulator, which has been already implement in the dosbox.
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12-11-2017, 11:04 PM (This post was last modified: 12-11-2017 11:05 PM by Luigi Vampa.)
Post: #13
RE: Idea for simulator: real speed menu
I don't see any bad manners in Compsystem's request, though I guess it may sound too-straightforward to an English speaker.
As commented in another thread, English is not the mother tongue of every forum member, and some may write more correctly than others.
The worst forum members are not those who ask about prospect new features, but those leeches (like me:) who don't contribute/share ideas like Compsystems actively does.

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12-12-2017, 05:59 AM
Post: #14
RE: Idea for simulator: real speed menu
Hello,

It actually would not be very easy to do.

On the HP48 simulator, it was realatively easy because the PC program was relatively simple (the CPU emulator). It was therefore possible to add in one place some delay to match the calcuator speed.

However, for Prime, since the PC program running is the same C code than on the real calculator, we would need to either put delay everywhere, or to have a "monitoring process" which would stop and start the calculating process to slow it down. Even then the slow down would not be exactly proportional everywhere.

Regardles, it would be usefull for checking that a program is not too slow to run on the HW machine, but should not be used on the PC to slow down the emulator as, as I said earlied, Prime is not like the 48 was in the fact that Prime is multi platform, it is not "a physical calculator with emulators", it is a calculator that works on lots of platforms (the dedicated HW, but also all the other ones). And programs should be made in consequences.



Regarding the other part of the conversation:
- Yes, this would have been a good suggestion to put in the suggestion thread.
- Yes, the original post was a little bit on the terse side of language. Assuming that this is not from a native speaker, I do not see a problem with it.
- Merry xmass!

Cyrille

Although I work for the HP calculator group, the views and opinions I post here are my own. I do not speak for HP.
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