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Called the community, to continue with the XCAS project.
09-27-2017, 06:56 PM
Post: #1
Called the community, to continue with the XCAS project.
electronic translation


I am thoroughly testing XCAS PC version and web (on-line), and has educational potential (teaching and learning math), but has many problems in GUI and especially run on Windows-PC, the creator and respected Mr. Bernard Parisse BP, has fulfilled its work, it is time for third parties to continue with the project, more than 20 years of development, but many other years dedicated to symbolic calculation.
XCAS does not run on win64bits machines.
XCAS seems to work fine only on Linux and the BP computer.
XCAS has a problem storing functions in Windows, it generates junk files, a bug that also happens in hp-prime and that will not be solved, neither by BP nor by the developers of hp-prime.
The port of xcas to the hp-prime has to make many adjustments, for this reason, with several enthusiasts and collaborators xCAS will evolve significantly,
Because the XCAS engine depends only on BP, the development group can not do much and the problems continue, a repository is required where many are constantly evaluating, verifying, etc.

Thank you so much
I have been participating in the official xcas forum, but the answers are not encouraging



Original

Llamado a la comunidad, continuar con el proyecto XCAS
Estoy probando exhaustivamente XCAS versión PC y web (on-line), y tiene potencial educativo (enseñanza y aprendizaje de la matemática), pero tiene muchos problemas en la GUI y en especial de ejecución sobre Windows-PC, el creador y respetado señor Bernard Parisse BP, ha cumplido con su labor, es tiempo que terceros continúen con el proyecto, más de 20 años de desarrollo, mas muchos otros años dedicado al cálculo simbólico.
XCAS no corre en máquinas win64bits.
XCAS parece que funciona bien solo en Linux y el computador de BP.
XCAS tiene problema al almacenar funciones en Windows, genera archivos basura, bug que también ocurre en la hp-prime y que no será solucionado, ni por parte de BP, ni por parte de los desarrolladores de la hp-prime.
El port de xcas a la hp-prime hay que hacerle muchos ajustes, por esta razón, con varios entusiastas y colaboradores xCAS evolucionara significativamente,
Como el motor del XCAS depende solo de BP, el grupo de desarrollo no puede hacer mucho y los problemas continuaran, se requiere un repositorio donde muchos estén constantemente evaluándolo, verificándolo, etc.

Muchas Gracias
He estado participando en el foro oficial de xcas, pero las respuestas no son alentadoras

http://xcas.e.ujf-grenoble.fr/XCAS/viewforum.php?f=19

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10-02-2017, 12:02 PM
Post: #2
RE: Called the community, to continue with the XCAS project.
(09-27-2017 06:56 PM)compsystems Wrote:  XCAS does not run on win64bits machines.

XCAS no corre en máquinas win64bits.

It seems to run fine on my 64-bit Windows 10 PC.

Parece que funciona bien en mi PC de Windows 10 de 64 bits.

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10-02-2017, 03:09 PM
Post: #3
RE: Called the community, to continue with the XCAS project.
Are you seriously calling this community to hijack the project from the hands of Bernard? Not a cool move, my friend. Not cool at all.
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10-02-2017, 07:35 PM (This post was last modified: 10-02-2017 07:38 PM by pier4r.)
Post: #4
RE: Called the community, to continue with the XCAS project.
(10-02-2017 03:09 PM)Claudio L. Wrote:  Are you seriously calling this community to hijack the project from the hands of Bernard? Not a cool move, my friend. Not cool at all.

I am not sure those are his intentions (due to the language barrier the meaning may be lost) but what I find interesting is that the request is "offloaded" to someone else. Like "I'd like to have this, please someone, do it asap".

It is not bad in itself to request something, but is neither really motivating when done extensively.

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10-02-2017, 11:23 PM
Post: #5
RE: Called the community, to continue with the XCAS project.
(10-02-2017 07:35 PM)pier4r Wrote:  
(10-02-2017 03:09 PM)Claudio L. Wrote:  Are you seriously calling this community to hijack the project from the hands of Bernard? Not a cool move, my friend. Not cool at all.

I am not sure those are his intentions (due to the language barrier the meaning may be lost) but what I find interesting is that the request is "offloaded" to someone else. Like "I'd like to have this, please someone, do it asap".

It is not bad in itself to request something, but is neither really motivating when done extensively.

Language barrier is not the issue here, since he presented his original text in spanish. I'd like to hear an explanation from him (and an apology to BP), but it's clear in the text he wrote that because his requests were not heard, he wants somebody to take the life-long project of one of the most respected members of this community and fork it.
He is literally saying that Bernard's time is done, he should retire from the project and other people should continue. In other words, calling for a mutiny, to hijack a project he's not even part of.
The only reason to ask for something like this is when a project was abandoned by his original author, but not when the author is still active.
If it was my project I'd be very upset to hear his call to arms, so I'm laying it here clearly: this is plain wrong.
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10-03-2017, 06:48 PM
Post: #6
RE: Called the community, to continue with the XCAS project.
I have not asked BP to abandon his project, he says he will not improve for example the GUI, add more commands, improve manuals, help, etc., so I ask that an external group improve these parts especially the GUI, some errors that occur in Win are repeated in hp-prime.
BP is currently developing the online version and the version with xcas-python, and when I say that it has fulfilled its work is that for him it is sufficient with what it has done with some versions of Xcas, for example XCAS-timode. and even this version is not 100% compatible with the TI68k, with some small improvements it would be.


something that seems to me out of the logic of algorithmia is that to define symbolic variables, is required of the following sentence

local X; purge (x);

I requested an alternate command

symbs (x);

http://xcas.e.ujf-grenoble.fr/XCAS/viewt...=19&t=1866


=====


No he pedido a BP que abandone su proyecto, BP dice que no mejorará por ejemplo el GUI, agregará más comandos (ordenes), no mejorará manuales, documentacion, ni ayuda, etc., así que pido que un grupo externo mejore estas partes especialmente la GUI, algunos errores que ocurren en Win se repiten en hp-prime.
BP está desarrollando actualmente la versión en línea y la versión con xcas-python, y cuando digo que ha cumplido su trabajo es que para él es suficiente con lo que ha hecho con algunas versiones de Xcas por ejemplo XCAS-timode. e incluso esta versión no es compatible al 100% con el TI68k, con algunas pequeñas mejoras lo sería 100%.

Algo que me parece fuera de la lógica de la algoritmia es que para definir variables simbólicas se requiere de la siguiente sentencia

local X; purge (x);

Yo solicité un comando alternativo

symbs (x);

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10-03-2017, 09:34 PM
Post: #7
RE: Called the community, to continue with the XCAS project.
Now it sounds better. Do you see the difference between what you said before and now?

(09-27-2017 06:56 PM)compsystems Wrote:  ... the creator and respected Mr. Bernard Parisse BP, has fulfilled its work, it is time for third parties to continue with the project, ...

(10-03-2017 06:48 PM)compsystems Wrote:  ... he says he will not improve for example the GUI, add more commands, improve manuals, help, etc., so I ask that an external group improve these parts especially the GUI, ...

It's very different to say that a third party has to continue with the project (as in taking control of it), and to say that a third party needs to help the original author to improve certain aspects he doesn't have time to work on.

Glad you clarified, because what you had proposed didn't sound nice in any language.
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10-04-2017, 06:12 AM
Post: #8
RE: Called the community, to continue with the XCAS project.
(10-03-2017 09:34 PM)Claudio L. Wrote:  Now it sounds better. ..
Really?
In my humble opinion It is still very disrespectful and arrogant towards Mr. Parisse.
If one wishes and stimulates in the right "tone", one comes to an agreement rather.
Just my 2 cents.
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10-04-2017, 06:37 PM
Post: #9
RE: Called the community, to continue with the XCAS project.
(10-04-2017 06:12 AM)Thomas_Sch Wrote:  
(10-03-2017 09:34 PM)Claudio L. Wrote:  Now it sounds better. ..
Really?
In my humble opinion It is still very disrespectful and arrogant towards Mr. Parisse.
If one wishes and stimulates in the right "tone", one comes to an agreement rather.
Just my 2 cents.

At least is not inciting other people to go against BP and get rid of him, but maybe join in to help. Perhaps I chose to interpret the message this way to give the benefit of the doubt (naively trying to see the best in people, even in compsystems).
However, the apology is still in order in my opinion, since he said what he said and didn't completely retract it.
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10-04-2017, 10:37 PM (This post was last modified: 10-05-2017 09:17 AM by Luigi Vampa.)
Post: #10
RE: Called the community, to continue with the XCAS project.
More indulgence and comprehension is needed.
After 20 years' time living in Madrid, some expressions I still use in my "northern Spanish" sound pretty harsh in Madrid, just some hundred km south from my home town. IMHO as a native (Spanish speaker;) I would rather say this brouhaha is more a linguistic issue, due to an automated translation, than any disrespectful wording in the original text.
No retraction needed, from my PoV.

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10-05-2017, 11:52 AM (This post was last modified: 10-05-2017 11:53 AM by compsystems.)
Post: #11
RE: Called the community, to continue with the XCAS project.
Hello, please consult the XCAS official forum discussions, some suggestions or requests that I have requested are very simple, considered by BP as cosmetic changes, I think they are trivial to incorporate. but BP, he does not have time for this, just for what he sees important.

http://xcas.e.ujf-grenoble.fr/XCAS/viewt...=19&t=1822

[Image: Xcas_ImprovementsInGUI_image00.png]

I am using Xcas in the classroom, with high school students and first levels of engineering, there are many details in the GUI that can be improved for the purpose of facilitating use.

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10-05-2017, 01:08 PM
Post: #12
RE: Called the community, to continue with the XCAS project.
Why don't you create a fork yourself? As you said, the changes you requested are very simple.
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10-05-2017, 06:43 PM
Post: #13
RE: Called the community, to continue with the XCAS project.
changing color, moving math expressions to a pixel down should be easy, compared to developing a CAS. to BP, he cares about CAS, but not the interface with the user.

If I had the ability to contribute to the source code, I would have done so.

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10-05-2017, 07:01 PM
Post: #14
RE: Called the community, to continue with the XCAS project.
Better (more powerful / more reliable) core CAS functionality is clearly more useful to users, and also understandably more interesting to him, than small (though useful - you have good ideas) UI adjustments such as the ones you're describing Smile

Like other commenters, I'll side with him focusing on core functionality, all the more I'm largely behaving the same way in the less popular projects I'm (more or less) maintaining. I hate lipstick on pigs, I'm not keen on working on lipstick in the first place, and there's already too much (unpaid) work to do on the core functionality...
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10-05-2017, 07:40 PM (This post was last modified: 10-05-2017 07:40 PM by pier4r.)
Post: #15
RE: Called the community, to continue with the XCAS project.
(10-05-2017 06:43 PM)compsystems Wrote:  If I had the ability to contribute to the source code, I would have done so.

You can still learn it. I am not sure whether XCAS can have another gui, if so, you could create one.

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10-05-2017, 08:24 PM
Post: #16
RE: Called the community, to continue with the XCAS project.
these cosmetic changes can be important characteristics of visualization, handling.

for example

1: [Save] field overlaps
2: The name of the second graphic does not appear.
3: frame work, the flag seems to be inverted
4: ticks must have at least one space, because it gives the appearance of negative numbers -80 -> - 80
also place a space before the units
gl_x_axis_unit="x_u", gl_y_axis_unit="y_u";
0y_u -> 0 y_u
I think the units label should only go on the axes

http://xcas.e.ujf-grenoble.fr/XCAS/viewt...=19&t=1886

[Image: xcas_graphing_image00.png]

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10-06-2017, 04:09 PM
Post: #17
RE: Called the community, to continue with the XCAS project.
I think Luigi Vampa is right, it's sometimes difficult to explain things in a foreign language.
As I explained to compsystems on the Xcas forum, I can not take in consideration all his bug reports and suggestions, because it would require probably more than 2 hours/day, something I obviously can not do (unless I would think it is essential to attract more users to Xcas, but I don't). I think compsystems does not realize that providing suggestions is easy but implementing them is sometimes much harder, this is something you discover when you really write code. Moreover I don't like to implement things related to GUI because I find it's boring and unlike CAS programming, your efforts will not survive a few OS updates. It's not surprising that many free softwares do not focus on GUI code.
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