Just out.

The Museum of HP Calculators

HP Forum Archive 20

Just out.
Message #1 Posted by Katie Wasserman on 29 Apr 2011, 12:09 p.m.

The latest version of HP Solve has Gene's 10bii+ review and more good stuff.
Edited: 29 Apr 2011, 12:11 p.m.

Re: Just out.
Message #2 Posted by gene wright on 29 Apr 2011, 1:20 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Katie Wasserman

finally! :-)

Re: Just out.
Message #3 Posted by David Ramsey on 29 Apr 2011, 1:25 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Katie Wasserman

I can't wait to see that HP-41 replacement CPU board!

Re: Just out.
Message #4 Posted by hugh steers on 29 Apr 2011, 3:24 p.m.,
in response to message #3 by David Ramsey

indeed! where can we get that 41 replacement board??


Review of HP 10bII+ in new hp Solve newsletter... just out
Message #5 Posted by gene wright on 29 Apr 2011, 3:50 p.m.,
in response to message #4 by hugh steers

41CL
The first set of the boards are spoken for.
Edited: 29 Apr 2011, 4:27 p.m.

Re: Review of HP 10bII+ in new hp Solve newsletter... just out
Message #6 Posted by M. Joury on 29 Apr 2011, 5:21 p.m.,
in response to message #5 by gene wright

Gene,
I have visited the site but I don't see how to purchase one or get on a waiting list. Any pricing information, etc. available?
Thanks.

Re: Review of HP 10bII+ in new hp Solve newsletter... just out
Message #7 Posted by gene wright on 29 Apr 2011, 9:21 p.m.,
in response to message #6 by M. Joury

Sure, right here:
10bII+
The link through the business section is broken. Might be a while before the HP website is fixed.

Re: Review of HP 10bII+ in new hp Solve newsletter... just out
Message #8 Posted by David Ramsey on 30 Apr 2011, 12:27 a.m.,
in response to message #7 by gene wright

Gene, how does a reference to HP's order page for a business calc answer a question about how to buy a third-party replacement processor for an HP-41? Am I missing something?

Re: Review of HP 10bII+ in new hp Solve newsletter... just out
Message #9 Posted by gene wright on 30 Apr 2011, 12:30 a.m.,
in response to message #8 by David Ramsey

doh. I mixed up the 10bII+ with the 41CL.
No order page for the 41CL next set yet. Let Monte get the beta units out and in the hands of a group before he worries about taking orders for more.

Re: Review of HP 10bII+ in new hp Solve newsletter... just out
Message #10 Posted by M. Joury on 30 Apr 2011, 2:01 a.m.,
in response to message #9 by gene wright

Thanks for the info Gene.

Re: Just out.
Message #11 Posted by M. Joury on 29 Apr 2011, 5:30 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Katie Wasserman

I also found the "Tweaking the HP42S" article interesting. Specially in light of the discussion of the WP34S keyboard layout. Although I have to say that I have a BIG problem with putting the X<>Y key on a shifted keyplane (as seems to be suggested by the image). I use X<>Y a lot more frequently than I use RDN and personally would switch those two if I could not have both unshifted.

Re: Just out.
Message #12 Posted by Jake Schwartz on 29 Apr 2011, 8:17 p.m.,
in response to message #11 by M. Joury

It is interesting...quickly checking through the models, the only ones I could find which had x<>y shifted were the 17BII, 17BII+, 19BII, 28C/S (swap), 65 and 67. (For the 65/67, x<>Y and Roll down would be primary only if programs using the appropriate LBL had not been defined in program memory. Also, it is interesting that the 34C, 37E and 38E/C had x<>y primary, but roll down shifted.
...but of course, the purpose of articles like these are specifically for creating a dialog and I'm grateful that any sort of discussion might take place.
Jake Schwartz

Re: Just out.
Message #13 Posted by M. Joury on 30 Apr 2011, 2:12 a.m.,
in response to message #12 by Jake Schwartz

Hi Jake,
Thanks for the article! Actually of the three business calculators you mention (17BII, 17BII+ and 19BII) the X<>Y and RDN keys are printed as if they are shifted but they act as unshifted keys when in RPN mode.
Marwan

Re: Just out.
Message #14 Posted by Walter B on 30 Apr 2011, 12:52 a.m.,
in response to message #11 by M. Joury

Jake's new article has ancestors in 2008 as he mentioned in the last paragraph in HP Solve. Looking at them, you'll find tweaking is an hobby with a long tradition in this community, and also the wp34s has its parents and grandparents :-)
Quote:
I use X<>Y a lot more frequently than I use RDN and personally would switch those two if I could not have both unshifted.
I concur. OTOH only three scientific HPs needed one or both of these functions shifted. Jake listed them.
Walter

Re: Just out.
Message #15 Posted by Eddie W. Shore on 1 May 2011, 5:31 p.m.,
in response to message #11 by M. Joury

Concur, I prefer the swap and the roll down functions (and the STO function) all to be unshifted as well.
The keyboard with three shifted functions (not counting the alpha characters) is a bit crazy.
The key layout with the gold shift on top and blue shift on the bottom look the best IMO.

Re: Just out.
Message #16 Posted by M. Joury on 2 May 2011, 12:29 a.m.,
in response to message #15 by Eddie W. Shore

I'll second that on STO! I guess the logic is that you use RCL more than STO so shift STO. However, I like the old Pioneer layout (and the 41 for that matter) with STO, RCL, X<>Y and RDN all unshifted.

Re: Just out.
Message #17 Posted by Jose Gonzalez Divasson on 29 Apr 2011, 6:41 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Katie Wasserman

I have to say that Gene's review can be used as a "getting started" guide - better than the one provided with the actual calculator. It's that good!
I say this because it helped me to understand some aspects that I did not "get" from the provided guide at a first reading.

Re: Just out.
Message #18 Posted by gene wright on 29 Apr 2011, 9:17 p.m.,
in response to message #17 by Jose Gonzalez Divasson

Heh. From your lips to HP's ears.
Seriously, all of that material is in there. I have no idea how the quick start guide was written.
The HP 10bII+ is a great little machine.

Re: Just out.
Message #19 Posted by Tim Wessman on 29 Apr 2011, 10:49 p.m.,
in response to message #18 by gene wright

Well, the quickstargt guide for the 10bII+ is essentially the "getting started" chapter from the original manual. A lot of the new things were put in there, but there wasn't enough space to cover it all.
The QSG *is* enough for you to effectively use the machine however. Unlike the 30b QSG. :-)
TW

Re: Just out.
Message #20 Posted by Eddie W. Shore on 1 May 2011, 4:40 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Katie Wasserman

Very good stuff.

Re: Just out.
Message #21 Posted by Gerson W. Barbosa on 1 May 2011, 9:56 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Katie Wasserman

Very good stuff indeed, thanks!
I took the time to finally solve the cube resistor problem. I never did all the exercises in my textbooks (quite the contrary!). That one was in Resnick & Halliday's book, but I skipped in '82 :-)

7 o---------R---------o 6 |\ /| | R R | | \ 2 1 / | | o-----R-----o-----------+ | | | | | R R R R | | | | | +--+--+ | o-----R-----o | | /|\ | 1A | / 3 4 \ | | | | | R R | +--+--+ |/ \| | 0 o---------R---------o 5 | | | | | = =
For easy visualization the cube has been redrawn to 2-D. For convenience, let's use 1 ohm resistors. The circuit will be solved through nodal analysis. Let's take node 0 (ground) as a reference and inject 1 amp into node 1. For convenience, let R = 1 ohm. The seven nodal equations can be readily obtained:
1) (V₁ - V₆) + (V₁ - V₂) + (V₁ - V₄) = 1 2) (V₂ - V₇) + (V₂ - V₁) + (V₂ - V₃) = 0 3) (V₃ - V₂) + (V₃ - V₄) + V₃ = 0 4) (V₄ - V₅) + (V₄ - V₁) + (V₄ - V₃) = 0 5) V₅ + (V₅ - V₆) + (V₅ - V₄) = 0 6) (V₆ - V₅) + (V₆ - V₇) + (V₆ - V₁) = 0 7) (V₇ - V₆) + (V₇ - V₂) + V₇ = 0
Instead of putting the system of equations into matrix form before solving it, the equations may be used exactly as they are written and solved with help of the hp-50g program described here. The program finds V₁ = .833333333333, which implies the equivalent resistance across the nodes 0 and 1 is 5/6*R. Likewise, when the 1 Amp current source is connected to the nodes 5 or 6, for instance, other equivalent resistances can be determined. They are 7/12*R and 3/4*R, respectively.
Sets of equations to be used in the program:
%%HP: T(3)A(D)F(,); { 'V1-V6+V1-V2+V1-V4=1,' 'V2-V7+V2-V1+V2-V3=0,' 'V3-V2+V3-V4+V3=0,' 'V4-V5+V4-V1+V4-V3=0,' 'V5+V5-V6+V5-V4=0,' 'V6-V5+V6-V7+V6-V1=0,' 'V7-V6+V7-V2+V7=0,' }
%%HP: T(3)A(D)F(,); { 'V1-V6+V1-V2+V1-V4=0,' 'V2-V7+V2-V1+V2-V3=0,' 'V3-V2+V3-V4+V3=0,' 'V4-V5+V4-V1+V4-V3=0,' 'V5+V5-V6+V5-V4=1,' 'V6-V5+V6-V7+V6-V1=0,' 'V7-V6+V7-V2+V7=0,' }
%%HP: T(3)A(D)F(,); { 'V1-V6+V1-V2+V1-V4=0,' 'V2-V7+V2-V1+V2-V3=0,' 'V3-V2+V3-V4+V3=0,' 'V4-V5+V4-V1+V4-V3=0,' 'V5+V5-V6+V5-V4=0,' 'V6-V5+V6-V7+V6-V1=1,' 'V7-V6+V7-V2+V7=0,' }


Re: Just out.
Message #22 Posted by Katie Wasserman on 1 May 2011, 10:34 p.m.,
in response to message #21 by Gerson W. Barbosa

Nicely done.
When I took first year college physics we called it "Halliday & Resnick", probably the 1st edition. (I must be pretty old because whatever edition it was the section on relativity was a supplement!) I need to dig it out and see if that resistor problem is in there.....


Re: Just out.
Message #23 Posted by Gerson W. Barbosa on 2 May 2011, 8:38 a.m.,
in response to message #22 by Katie Wasserman

Without nodal analysis, an overkill here, the trick would be redrawing the circuit connecting together the nodes clearly at the same potential, like 2 and 4, for instance. I should have said "Halliday & Resnick". Actually we called it simply Halliday. Mine was probably the Brazilian 1st edition. I think the resistor cube problem is in the chapter 27 (Circuits).
http://www.amazon.com/Fundamentals-Physics-David-Halliday/dp/0471216437/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1304337310&sr=1-6

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