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HP Forum Archive 18

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HP82165 and HP82166
Message #1 Posted by John Robinson on 18 Sept 2008, 6:55 a.m.

Hi all, I was reading a HP41 brochure recently, and it mentions two HP-IL peripherals, the "HP82165A HP-IL/GPIO interface" and the "HP82166C HP-IL Interface Kit". I suspect thet are used for general hardware interfacing ? can anyone confirm that please. Also, any idea what they might cost ??

Thanks John

      
Re: HP82165 and HP82166
Message #2 Posted by Dan Grelinger on 18 Sept 2008, 12:12 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by John Robinson

I don't have an 82165A, but I believe that HP referred to the standard parallel interface (that many printers used back in the day) as GPIO (General Purpose Input/Output). I believe that the HP-IL/GPIO interface could be used to drive a parallel interface printer from an HP-IL device (like an HP-41, -71, -75). It is powered by the standard HP AC adaptor for most HP-IL gear. I have not seen one recently on ebay, but I would guess that they would go for between $100 and $200 when they do show up.

I have an 82166C, and it has HP-IL plugs on one end, and pins on the other (about 24-30 of them?) that can be used to interface with something digital. I think it can talk parallel, not sure if it can talk serial. It needs power from the device it is interfaced with. I bought mine several months ago on ebay and it cost over $100.

Manuals for both are on TOS.

Dan

            
Re: HP82165 and HP82166
Message #3 Posted by Eric Smith on 18 Sept 2008, 2:55 p.m.,
in response to message #2 by Dan Grelinger

I think what you're describing is an 82166A "HP-IL Converter", not an 82166C. The 82166C is a kit of components to build custom HP-IL interfaces.

      
Re: HP82165 and HP82166
Message #4 Posted by Egan Ford on 18 Sept 2008, 12:17 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by John Robinson

Quote:
Hi all, I was reading a HP41 brochure recently, and it mentions two HP-IL peripherals, the "HP82165A HP-IL/GPIO interface" and the "HP82166C HP-IL Interface Kit". I suspect thet are used for general hardware interfacing ? can anyone confirm that please.
Yes. For a great introduction to both devices get the book Control the World with HP-IL, by Gary Friedman. It is freely available on the MoHPC DVD.

The 82164A is yet another HP-IL interface (RS-232). I have posted the following articles as examples of how to use it with the 41CX and the 71B.

The aforementioned book also has an introduction to the 82164A.

More information can also be obtained from the article, HP-IL: A Low-Cost Digital Interface for Portable Applications. You can obtain it from here: http://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs/IssuePDFs/1983-01.pdf

Lastly do forget to RTFMs (F = Fine :-). They are all available on the MoHPC DVDs.

Quote:
Also, any idea what they might cost ??
Less than $200 on eBay. IIRC, the 82164 is less rare than the 82165 and 82166.

Optionally you could roll-your-own. Harvest the 3 key HP-IL ingredients (funky connector, pulse transformer, interface IC) out of a broken HP-IL printer, drive, (just about anything with moving parts). I recently purchased a Thinkjet for less that $20 because I needed its pulse transformer to repair a 9114B.

            
Re: HP82165 and HP82166
Message #5 Posted by John Robinson on 19 Sept 2008, 6:52 p.m.,
in response to message #4 by Egan Ford

Thanks for the input guys !! - I like the idea of rolling my own, I have spare tape drive or two. Any idea where I can get more info on the components and how to interface to them ?, or is the book the best place ?

Thanks John

                  
Re: HP82165 and HP82166
Message #6 Posted by Eric Smith on 19 Sept 2008, 7:27 p.m.,
in response to message #5 by John Robinson

The HP-IL specification, the 1LB3 chip specification, and related documents are available one the MoHPC CD/DVD set.

Be forewarned, though, that HP-IL is a moderately complicated protocol, and it usually takes quite a bit of effort to develop the firmware for an HP-IL device. There are a lot of state machines involved, and a lot of possibility for subtle problems. (Been there, done that!)

                        
Re: HP82165 and HP82166
Message #7 Posted by Tony Duell on 20 Sept 2008, 4:45 a.m.,
in response to message #6 by Eric Smith

Does anyone have a commented source listing (any processor/microcontroller) for an HPIL peripheral using the 1LB3 chiP? It would be very useful to see just what has to be done.

                              
Re: HP82165 and HP82166
Message #8 Posted by J-F Garnier on 20 Sept 2008, 5:30 a.m.,
in response to message #7 by Tony Duell

Hi,

A simple example is the Term71 utility (8086 asm) I wrote for the HP Portable Plus to use it as a remote keyboard/display for the HP-71B. It is moderately commented and is available here.

And I should still have some Z80 asm source files of the HP-IL boards I developed for the french Kristal company at the time.

At the time, I wasn't aware of the state machine description and I wrote the HP-IL code based on the 1LB3 datasheet and some experiments with the HP41 HP-IL development module. And it worked...

J-F

                                    
Re: HP82165 and HP82166
Message #9 Posted by Eric Smith on 20 Sept 2008, 1:31 p.m.,
in response to message #8 by J-F Garnier

Note that "works with an HP-41" doesn't imply "meets the HP-IL protocol specifications". This isn't intended as criticism of your work; I did my first HP-IL interface that way too. But for the product that was intended to actually be sold, I followed the state diagrams very closely, and did a lot more testing.

                                          
Re: HP82165 and HP82166
Message #10 Posted by J-F Garnier on 21 Sept 2008, 3:51 a.m.,
in response to message #9 by Eric Smith

Hi Eric, what HPIL products did you design?

                                                
Re: HP82165 and HP82166
Message #11 Posted by Eric Smith on 21 Sept 2008, 2:28 p.m.,
in response to message #10 by J-F Garnier

None that made it to market, alas.

                  
Re: HP82165 and HP82166 - hardware interfacing - new book
Message #12 Posted by Christoph Klug on 24 Sept 2008, 3:41 a.m.,
in response to message #5 by John Robinson

Dear John Robinson,

as a reference for hardware interfacing, data logger, measurement, control interface applications and so on... using the HP82166a IL-Converter I recommend you my I/O-Board and IL2000 system manual. For more details please refer to the HP-Museum article folder.

During the comming Allschwil meeting in Switzerland / HP-Collection I will introduce the new 2008 reprint of this two manuals - now this two books merged to a 700 page professional book including ISBN number...

Best regards from Germany - Christoph Klug

            
Re: HP82165 and HP82166
Message #13 Posted by Tony Duell on 20 Sept 2008, 4:44 a.m.,
in response to message #4 by Egan Ford

Be careful! The HPIL version of the Thinkjet contains the connector and the transformer, but _not_ the 1LB3 chip. The custom processor chip contains the HPIL interface logic too, and you can't extract it and use it.

For the trivial buffs : Name 2 HP products that contain a 1LB3 chip but _not_ the HPIL transformer or connector.

                  
Re: HP82165 and HP82166
Message #14 Posted by J-F Garnier on 20 Sept 2008, 6:18 a.m.,
in response to message #13 by Tony Duell

I think I remember the HPIB version of the ThinkJet printer used an internal HPIL bus without transformers.

I don't know the second product.

J-F

[To Tony: can you think about my request?]

                        
Re: HP82165 and HP82166
Message #15 Posted by Tony Duell on 21 Sept 2008, 4:13 a.m.,
in response to message #14 by J-F Garnier

Quote:

[To Tony: can you think about my request?]

I am probably being very dense, but what request are you refering to?

                  
Re: HP82165 and HP82166
Message #16 Posted by Eric Smith on 20 Sept 2008, 1:29 p.m.,
in response to message #13 by Tony Duell

I'm only aware of one, the 9807A.

                        
Re: HP82165 and HP82166
Message #17 Posted by Tony Duell on 21 Sept 2008, 4:12 a.m.,
in response to message #16 by Eric Smith

Between you, you've got both of the ones I was thinking of -- the 2225A HPIB Thinkjet and the 9807 Integral.

Both of these units use the same microcontroller as the HPIL Thinkjet and use its built-in HPIL interface. The HPIB thinkjet has a second PCB that's essentially an HPIB-HPIL interface (again without the transformer), and that PCB includes a 1LB3 chip. The Integral has a 1LB3 on the 68000 bus talking to the Thinkjet controller.

                              
Re: HP82165 and HP82166
Message #18 Posted by RamLab on 30 Sept 2008, 4:05 p.m.,
in response to message #17 by Tony Duell

Hi,

There is also the HP-IB option 201 (44461A. It's the HP-IB to HP-IL converter for the HP3421A Data Acquisition Unit. It does have an HP-IL connector, but not the 1LB3 chip.

RamLab

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