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smaller HP 82166A with 32-pin connector
09-14-2019, 07:50 AM (This post was last modified: 09-14-2019 07:56 AM by Klaus Overhage.)
Post: #1
smaller HP 82166A with 32-pin connector
The technical manual of the HP82166A HP-IL Converter describe a device with a 34-pin GPIO connector. The one I bought is a little bit smaller and with a 32-pin connector. I worked out the pin assignment of this device as good as I can from looking on the pcb.

Has anybody seen this variant of a HP82166A before and maybe can confirm the pin assignment?

Code:
           | <== upper plastic edge
        ----
RXO  32 |  | 31 +5V
-CS  30 |  | 29 (+5V)
DAVO 28 |  | 27 RDYI
RDYO 26 |  | 25 DACI
PWON 24 |  | 23 GND
DACO 22 |  | 21 HLLO
DB7  20 |  | 19 DAVI
DB5  18 |  | 17 DB6
DB3  16 |  | 15 DB4
DB1  14 |  | 13 DB2
DCLO 12 |  | 11 DB0
MSRQ 10 |  | 09 GET0
DA6  08 |  | 07 DA7
DA4  06 |  | 05 DA5
DA2  04 |  | 03 DA3
DA0  02 |  | 01 DA1
        ----
           | <== upper plastic edge


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09-14-2019, 08:43 AM
Post: #2
RE: smaller HP 82166A with 32-pin connector
No I didn't know this variant. It seems that it's a pre-production variant still using discrete pulse transformers.

When I started to work on HP-IL in the 80's I got a HP82166 prototype - I don't have it anymore - that was using similar pulse transformers and also had a 32-pin connector. See attached image with the proto side by side with a production unit.

Note that the layout changed in the final HP82166 with the MCU and 1LB3 swapped.

J-F


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09-16-2019, 07:23 AM
Post: #3
RE: smaller HP 82166A with 32-pin connector
Thank you for your explanations. Then this device is probably not so strange and could work. It already has the same MCU as the production unit. But the ICs are still rotated as in your prototype. That explains probably the strongly deviating PIN assignment of my variant compared to the technical manual. The name is displayed by the HP-41CX with CCD module in Catalog 0 as HP82166A.

In the meantime, I was able to build the simple circuit from the book "Control the world with HP-IL", page 42. Instead of a 74C373, a 74HCT573 is used. The tests, whether so 8 LEDs can be switched were all positive. The DA0-DA7, DAVO, RDYI, DACI, + 5V and GND connections are all correct. The "Count" program on page 44 ran to 255 in 96 seconds. With the HP-71B, a flickering light looks very pretty.
Code:

10 RESTORE IO
20 A=DEVADDR("%64")
30 ENDLINE ""
40 X=1
50 FOR I=1 TO 8
60 OUTPUT :A; CHR$(X)
70 X=2*X
80 NEXT I
90 FOR I=1 TO 8
100 OUTPUT :A; CHR$(X)
110 X=X/2
120 NEXT I
130 GOTO 50
140 END


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09-16-2019, 02:23 PM
Post: #4
RE: smaller HP 82166A with 32-pin connector
Dos anyone have one of the prototypes with the piggy back EPROM like the one in M. Garnier's photo? I would really like to get a dump of that EPROM.

Paul.
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04-08-2020, 10:06 AM
Post: #5
RE: smaller HP 82166A with 32-pin connector
I have a handful of these 82166A modules and have decided to spend some time on them the last few (and next) days.

I can Write to the port, but when connecting 2 of these with the small connector board 82166-90013 i struggle to READ anything on the port.

I have looked at the Control the World.... and i see the R0-R3 being key, but have not found a way to READ from the 8-bit bus.

I send Characters to Module 1 and want to read them from Module 2 - ENTER :LOOP ; X$ - nothing happens it gets stuck.

I have been looking to find a copy of Christopher Klugs book - anyone know where to get the book?

Can anyone here help, please?

/Kim
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04-08-2020, 10:57 AM
Post: #6
RE: smaller HP 82166A with 32-pin connector
(04-08-2020 10:06 AM)KimH Wrote:  I send Characters to Module 1 and want to read them from Module 2 - ENTER :LOOP ; X$ - nothing happens it gets stuck.

First of all, you must use addresses in OUTPUT and ENTER statements, not just :LOOP.

Please post you complete test sequence, so we can evaluate it.

J-F
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04-08-2020, 12:25 PM (This post was last modified: 04-08-2020 12:31 PM by KimH.)
Post: #7
RE: smaller HP 82166A with 32-pin connector
Thanks J-F,

I actually use the address as you suggest.

I admit, that I am struggling with the logic of R0 to R3. I get most of it, but not all.

As G. Friedman suggest, the documentation and examples from HP were not exactly the best he had seen.

I saw a reference to Christoph's book HP41 - Input-Output Board and the TOC - looked like what I needed. Can't find it anywhere to buy. Maybe someone here would know how to get the book or how to get in touch with Mr. Klug (means clever in German Wink)

Here are the 2 pieces I use for my experiment - retyped.

The listener stops at line 20 and move no further

Code:

1 !LISTENER
2 RESTOREIO
5 A=DEVADDR(“%64“)
6 ! FROM CONTROL THE WORLD P178 – LOOKS CORRECT 
7 SEND UNT UNL MTA LISTEN A DDL 0 DATA 226,16,24 UNT UNL
10 FOR I=1 TO 10
20 ENTER :A ;B$
25 DISP B$
30 NEXT I 

1 !TALKER (sends CHARS - seemingly)
2 RESTOREIO
3 ENDLINE””
5 A=DEVADDR(“%64“)
9 ! FROM CONTROL THE WORLD p33 – LOOKS CORRECT
10 SEND UNT UNL MTA LISTEN A DDL 0 DATA 74,16,208 UNT UNL
20 FOR I=1 TO 63
25 X$=CHR$(I+64)
30 OUTPUT :A ;X$
31 DISP I; X$
40 NEXT I

(04-08-2020 10:57 AM)J-F Garnier Wrote:  
(04-08-2020 10:06 AM)KimH Wrote:  I send Characters to Module 1 and want to read them from Module 2 - ENTER :LOOP ; X$ - nothing happens it gets stuck.

First of all, you must use addresses in OUTPUT and ENTER statements, not just :LOOP.

Please post you complete test sequence, so we can evaluate it.

J-F
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04-08-2020, 02:33 PM
Post: #8
RE: smaller HP 82166A with 32-pin connector
(04-08-2020 12:25 PM)KimH Wrote:  Here are the 2 pieces I use for my experiment - retyped.

The listener stops at line 20 and move no further

Code:

1 !LISTENER
2 RESTOREIO
5 A=DEVADDR(“%64“)
6 ! FROM CONTROL THE WORLD P178 – LOOKS CORRECT 
7 SEND UNT UNL MTA LISTEN A DDL 0 DATA 226,16,24 UNT UNL
10 FOR I=1 TO 10
20 ENTER :A ;B$
25 DISP B$
30 NEXT I 

1 !TALKER (sends CHARS - seemingly)
2 RESTOREIO
3 ENDLINE””
5 A=DEVADDR(“%64“)
9 ! FROM CONTROL THE WORLD p33 – LOOKS CORRECT
10 SEND UNT UNL MTA LISTEN A DDL 0 DATA 74,16,208 UNT UNL
20 FOR I=1 TO 63
25 X$=CHR$(I+64)
30 OUTPUT :A ;X$
31 DISP I; X$
40 NEXT I
Are you using 2 HP-71B, one on each side? Otherwise you must address the 2 converters with their own addresses.

That sounds quite complicate to just send bytes from one converter to the other.
You may start using the default control register setting and just do
OUTPUT 1;A$ on one side and ENTER 2;B$ on the other side.
Be sure to restore the default ENDLINE condition! otherwise it will not work.

To be more specific, I believe your test code above may hang at line 20 because the ENTER statement doesn't find a string terminator (since you disabled it with ENDLINE "").

J-F
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04-08-2020, 02:57 PM
Post: #9
RE: smaller HP 82166A with 32-pin connector
Yes, I have 2 times 82166A mounted on the board in each their own loop with a 71B each - one TALK and the other LISTEN.

What I wanted was to see the sequence which was sent on one device re-appear on the other device, one by one. This would tell me that the loop was working and that I had understood some of the basics..

I believe I have done what you suggest but clearly I will try again.

Maybe I am dealing with a mundane challenge - one or both the modules are not working as expected.

I will drop a note here once I know more

Thanks for your suggestions and for your time!

/Kim

Quote:Are you using 2 HP-71B, one on each side? Otherwise you must address the 2 converters with their own addresses.

That sounds quite complicate to just send bytes from one converter to the other.
You may start using the default control register setting and just do
OUTPUT 1;A$ on one side and ENTER 2;B$ on the other side.
Be sure to restore the default ENDLINE condition! otherwise it will not work.

To be more specific, I believe your test code above may hang at line 20 because the ENTER statement doesn't find a string terminator (since you disabled it with ENDLINE "").

J-F
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04-08-2020, 03:12 PM
Post: #10
RE: smaller HP 82166A with 32-pin connector
Oh Joy - both modules work Smile

RESTOREIO
ENDLINE

and then your suggestion actually moved the Characters "J-F" from one to the other 82166A Device! (thought that J-F was a nice touch Smile )

Now that I know that BOTH module interfaces work, I can start having some fun

Thanks J-F!!

(04-08-2020 02:57 PM)KimH Wrote:  Yes, I have 2 times 82166A mounted on the board in each their own loop with a 71B each - one TALK and the other LISTEN.

What I wanted was to see the sequence which was sent on one device re-appear on the other device, one by one. This would tell me that the loop was working and that I had understood some of the basics..

I believe I have done what you suggest but clearly I will try again.

Maybe I am dealing with a mundane challenge - one or both the modules are not working as expected.

I will drop a note here once I know more

Thanks for your suggestions and for your time!

/Kim

Quote:Are you using 2 HP-71B, one on each side? Otherwise you must address the 2 converters with their own addresses.

That sounds quite complicate to just send bytes from one converter to the other.
You may start using the default control register setting and just do
OUTPUT 1;A$ on one side and ENTER 2;B$ on the other side.
Be sure to restore the default ENDLINE condition! otherwise it will not work.

To be more specific, I believe your test code above may hang at line 20 because the ENTER statement doesn't find a string terminator (since you disabled it with ENDLINE "").

J-F
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04-08-2020, 06:38 PM
Post: #11
RE: smaller HP 82166A with 32-pin connector
(04-08-2020 12:25 PM)KimH Wrote:  Maybe someone here would know how to get the book or how to get in touch with Mr. Klug (means clever in German Wink)

You could send him a PM.
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04-08-2020, 07:29 PM
Post: #12
RE: smaller HP 82166A with 32-pin connector
(04-08-2020 12:25 PM)KimH Wrote:  I saw a reference to Christoph's book HP41 - Input-Output Board and the TOC - looked like what I needed. Can't find it anywhere to buy. Maybe someone here would know how to get the book or how to get in touch with Mr. Klug (means clever in German Wink)

I got mine directly from Herr Klug, if you are unable to get one for some reason I could probably be convinced to part with my copy, it is practically unused.

Paul.
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04-09-2020, 05:33 AM
Post: #13
RE: smaller HP 82166A with 32-pin connector
That’s my current challenge, I don’t find his email addr. I assume he is active in this group somewhere.

On XING (Germanic LinkedIn) I have found his name and his location Hildesheim, and sent him an invite. Maybe it is him and he reacts...

If anyone has a hint or his address - and feel ok sharing - I would make use of it.

/Kim

(04-08-2020 06:38 PM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:  
(04-08-2020 12:25 PM)KimH Wrote:  Maybe someone here would know how to get the book or how to get in touch with Mr. Klug (means clever in German Wink)

You could send him a PM.
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04-09-2020, 02:10 PM (This post was last modified: 04-09-2020 02:17 PM by Dave Frederickson.)
Post: #14
RE: smaller HP 82166A with 32-pin connector
(04-09-2020 05:33 AM)KimH Wrote:  That’s my current challenge, I don’t find his email addr. I assume he is active in this group somewhere.

(04-08-2020 06:38 PM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:  You could send him a PM.

A Private Message, not an email. https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/private.php?action=send

For Recipients: enter Christoph Klug.

I'm interested in Christoph's book as well. I acquired an 82166A complete in-box with two adapters and the Eval Board last week and I could use a good reference for the HP-IL protocol.

Dave

Edit: You can try sending Christoph an email here. https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/user-1798.html
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04-17-2020, 04:57 PM
Post: #15
RE: smaller HP 82166A with 32-pin connector
So,

I made contact with Christoph Klug. In a roundabout way my efforts paid off and Christoph made contact to the publisher who has the book available as an e-book (PDF) - the paper-book is OOP.

If you write to Email = verlag@franzbecker.de and ask for the book:

ISBN 978-3-88120-853-6 titled "HP-41 Input / Output Board" and "IL2000 Interface System".

They will send you an "Invoice" for €18 which needs to be paid and the the link to the book arrives to your email the next day.

Not sure how they handle non-Germans, we have a Direct Deposit system which is reliable and fast. You may be well served asking here http://www.franzbecker.de/kontakt.html

I got the 700-plus page book this morning and have read through the most interesting parts of it and I must say, it is excellent! Better than I had hoped for and lots of inspiration.

There's even a section with comments from Wlodeck and a couple of other friends of our community.

It is a bit odd as the PDF is made in such a way that one part "HP-41 In/out" and the "IL2000" are "upside-down". Part one is read from the front cover - right page has what you read - and the second part is to be read from the back cover. i.e. every other page is upside/down.... - but it works.

I have the work cut out for me now Smile - oh joy


(04-09-2020 02:10 PM)Dave Frederickson Wrote:  
(04-09-2020 05:33 AM)KimH Wrote:  That’s my current challenge, I don’t find his email addr. I assume he is active in this group somewhere.

A Private Message, not an email. https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/private.php?action=send

For Recipients: enter Christoph Klug.

I'm interested in Christoph's book as well. I acquired an 82166A complete in-box with two adapters and the Eval Board last week and I could use a good reference for the HP-IL protocol.

Dave

Edit: You can try sending Christoph an email here. https://www.hpmuseum.org/forum/user-1798.html
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04-17-2020, 05:50 PM
Post: #16
RE: smaller HP 82166A with 32-pin connector
Yes the book is printed in an interesting fashion, if anyone would rather have a paper copy I could probably be convinced to part with mine.
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04-20-2020, 12:46 PM
Post: #17
RE: smaller HP 82166A with 32-pin connector
(04-17-2020 05:50 PM)Paul Berger (Canada) Wrote:  Yes the book is printed in an interesting fashion, if anyone would rather have a paper copy I could probably be convinced to part with mine.

The book has been spoken for.
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