Do I dare to use my 41?
10-27-2018, 06:55 AM
Post: #21
 Massimo Gnerucci Senior Member Posts: 1,778 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Do I dare to use my 41?
(10-27-2018 05:14 AM)Garth Wilson Wrote:
Quote:The 48SX was the replacement for the 41C.

It doesn't have the power of HPIL I/O though. Only the 41, 71, and 75 did.

Nonetheless Dave's correct.

Greetings,
Massimo

-+×÷ ↔ left is right and right is wrong
10-27-2018, 01:30 PM
Post: #22
 Sylvain Cote Senior Member Posts: 1,125 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Do I dare to use my 41?
(10-27-2018 01:26 AM)Dave Britten Wrote:  Strictly speaking, the 42S was HP's replacement for the 15C. It just happened to be largely compatible with 41C keystroke programs. The 48SX was the replacement for the 41C.
To my knowledge, the calculator was developed as a replacement for the HP-41 and it is why most of its RPN opcodes are identical to the HP-41 ones.
It's only near the end of the development phase that the management changed their idea and turned it into a HP-15C replacement.
As a result, the development team had to remove some of the features and block some others.
I am searching my old journals (PPC/CHHU/HPX/etc) to get the source of that information, will post it here when I find it.
10-27-2018, 04:07 PM
Post: #23
 Massimo Gnerucci Senior Member Posts: 1,778 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Do I dare to use my 41?
Well, given the available opcodes I tend to concur, but I have a clear image in mind of a 42S box with the printed banner advertising it as a 15C replacement.

Greetings,
Massimo

-+×÷ ↔ left is right and right is wrong
10-27-2018, 04:12 PM
Post: #24
 Didier Lachieze Senior Member Posts: 1,143 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Do I dare to use my 41?
Like this one :
10-27-2018, 04:14 PM
Post: #25
 Massimo Gnerucci Senior Member Posts: 1,778 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Do I dare to use my 41?
(10-27-2018 04:12 PM)Didier Lachieze Wrote:  Like this one :

YEP!

I tried to rescue that image for years. Thank you!

Greetings,
Massimo

-+×÷ ↔ left is right and right is wrong
10-27-2018, 04:50 PM
Post: #26
 Thomas Okken Senior Member Posts: 864 Joined: Feb 2014
RE: Do I dare to use my 41?
(10-27-2018 04:07 PM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote:  Well, given the available opcodes I tend to concur, but I have a clear image in mind of a 42S box with the printed banner advertising it as a 15C replacement.

You're responding to Sylvain saying

(10-27-2018 01:30 PM)Sylvain Cote Wrote:  It's only near the end of the development phase that the management changed their idea and turned it into a HP-15C replacement.

Given the phrasing "I tend to concur ... but ..." it sounds like you are disagreeing with something, but I can't figure out what.

BTW, Despite HP management deciding to market the 42S as a 15C replacement (*), the person who decided to put the number 42.0000 i41.0000 in the display, in the photo on the cover of the manual, clearly had a different point to make.

Given the big change in direction late in development, I wonder what, if any, of the removed functionality ended up as zombie code, still in the ROM but never used? Like the [MIN], [MAX], and [FIND] functions, that apparently didn't get management blessing but ended up hidden instead of removed...

(*) Did they only do that in certain markets, or only shortly after launch? I don't remember mine having that kind of banner or sticker, neither on the box nor on the manual.
10-27-2018, 05:09 PM
Post: #27
 Massimo Gnerucci Senior Member Posts: 1,778 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Do I dare to use my 41?
(10-27-2018 04:50 PM)Thomas Okken Wrote:  Given the phrasing "I tend to concur ... but ..." it sounds like you are disagreeing with something, but I can't figure out what.

That, on the other hand, I also concur with Dave's:
Quote:It just happened to be largely compatible with 41C keystroke programs. The 48SX was the replacement for the 41C.
The 48SX was positioned as the true replacement.

(10-27-2018 04:50 PM)Thomas Okken Wrote:  BTW, Despite HP management deciding to market the 42S as a 15C replacement (*), the person who decided to put the number 42.0000 i41.0000 in the display, in the photo on the cover of the manual, clearly had a different point to make.

Oh but that is only an imaginary 41, not the real one.

Greetings,
Massimo

-+×÷ ↔ left is right and right is wrong
10-27-2018, 05:14 PM
Post: #28
 Ken S Junior Member Posts: 47 Joined: Jan 2018
RE: Do I dare to use my 41?
There is the empty 28 pin chip mount inside the 42s, I was told it was used for other languages but could have had other uses. The other members of the Pioneer family had built in clocks as well and my understanding is that it originally was meant to have IO as well.

HP easily could have made a full 41CX compatible powerhouse if they weren't afraid of competing with their new 48.
10-27-2018, 10:38 PM
Post: #29
 Sylvain Cote Senior Member Posts: 1,125 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Do I dare to use my 41?
I have bought a couple years ago, all of Jakes HHC video's and in my search for HP-42S development info,
I have stumbled upon the 1989 Winter CES meeting where Chris Bunsen of HP speaks on various topics including HP42S, 32S, 22S, 20S calculators and design philosophies.
This video gives a glimpse of the internal technical/marketing/power struggles within HP and why Chris Bunsen make the choices he made in the above calculators.
IMHO, the $10 Jakes asks for this video (#6) is a steal, I have not seen completely because I need to finish my presentation for next weekend but I will definitely go back to it when I have time. Sadly, I found that Chris Bunsen died five years ago: Christopher M. Bunsen (May 2, 1953 — Jan. 31, 2013) Sylvain 10-28-2018, 11:34 AM (This post was last modified: 10-28-2018 11:34 AM by BruceH.) Post: #30  BruceH Member Posts: 221 Joined: Dec 2013 RE: Do I dare to use my 41? Thanks for the picture Didier. Alas I no longer have the packaging for my 42S (bought long before I worried about keeping such things). And thanks all for an interesting little sub-thread re which model is the replacement for the 41. The 48 was the replacement in the sense that it was the top of the range, and had i/o. On the other hand it used an incompatible programming language. There was a 41 compatibility-mode ROM card, IIRC, but I've no idea how good it is. For me the 42S is the replacement because, as it says on page 4 of the owner's manual in the features list: "the ability to run programs written for the HP-41C and HP-41CV calculators." :-) 10-28-2018, 01:49 PM Post: #31  Dave Britten Senior Member Posts: 1,140 Joined: Dec 2013 RE: Do I dare to use my 41? Yes, the 48SX may have been the intended replacement for the 41, but for the casual 41 user (i.e. those that didn't have a fleet of expansion modules and peripherals), the 42S ended up being the de-facto replacement. 10-28-2018, 01:49 PM (This post was last modified: 10-28-2018 01:49 PM by Jlouis.) Post: #32  Jlouis Senior Member Posts: 626 Joined: Nov 2014 RE: Do I dare to use my 41? It's a pity that they intended to make the 42s a replacement of the 15c without preserving the perfect form factor of the later 10-28-2018, 05:33 PM Post: #33  Massimo Gnerucci Senior Member Posts: 1,778 Joined: Dec 2013 RE: Do I dare to use my 41? (10-28-2018 01:49 PM)Jlouis Wrote: It's a pity that they intended to make the 42s a replacement of the 15c without preserving the perfect form factor of the later They finally saw the light and closed the landscape line once and forever (well if they will be able to kill the 12C, one day). Hallelujah! Greetings, Massimo -+×÷ ↔ left is right and right is wrong 10-28-2018, 06:13 PM Post: #34  Didier Lachieze Senior Member Posts: 1,143 Joined: Dec 2013 RE: Do I dare to use my 41? (10-28-2018 11:34 AM)BruceH Wrote: Thanks for the picture Didier. Alas I no longer have the packaging for my 42S (bought long before I worried about keeping such things). And here is a picture of the 32S box showing it was marketed as the 11C follow-up: 10-29-2018, 11:55 AM Post: #35  Jake Schwartz Member Posts: 210 Joined: Dec 2013 RE: Do I dare to use my 41? (10-28-2018 11:34 AM)BruceH Wrote: For me the 42S is the replacement because, as it says on page 4 of the owner's manual in the features list: "the ability to run programs written for the HP-41C and HP-41CV calculators." :-) I remember hearing that one of the Seattle (?) PPC chapter meetings featured an HP person showing a prototype of the 42S with I/O still included. I wonder if that baby still exists... Jake 10-29-2018, 12:06 PM Post: #36  Jake Schwartz Member Posts: 210 Joined: Dec 2013 RE: Do I dare to use my 41? (10-27-2018 10:38 PM)Sylvain Cote Wrote: I have bought a couple years ago, all of Jakes HHC video's and in my search for HP-42S development info, I have stumbled upon the 1989 Winter CES meeting where Chris Bunsen of HP speaks on various topics including HP42S, 32S, 22S, 20S calculators and design philosophies. This video gives a glimpse of the internal technical/marketing/power struggles within HP and why Chris Bunsen make the choices he made in the above calculators. IMHO, the$10 Jakes asks for this video (#6) is a steal, I have not seen completely because I need to finish my presentation for next weekend but I will definitely go back to it when I have time.
Sadly, I found that Chris Bunsen died five years ago: Christopher M. Bunsen (May 2, 1953 — Jan. 31, 2013)
Sylvain

Chris ran into quite an amount of resistance at Corvallis and had some "battles" with the powers that be. One story which has circulated was that Chris basically was the inventor of HP Solve, but some folks at HP were sure that it wouldn't work - until he proved that it *did*. Apparently, it was deemed to be "essential" for the calcs thereafter. The first iteration (I believe) of it was Chris' own product he sold through EduCALC - "The EQ Solver 1 - HP-71 Equation Solver System", which appeared in catalogs 35 (on page 39 - 1987) through 43 (page 80 - 1989).

Jake
10-29-2018, 12:56 PM
Post: #37
 rprosperi Senior Member Posts: 3,564 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Do I dare to use my 41?
(10-29-2018 12:06 PM)Jake Schwartz Wrote:  ...The first iteration (I believe) of it was Chris' own product he sold through EduCALC - "The EQ Solver 1 - HP-71 Equation Solver System", which appeared in catalogs 35 (on page 39 - 1987) through 43 (page 80 - 1989).

As a 71-calcaholic, I've been looking for a copy of this HP-71 Equation Solver for (many!) years with no success. Does anyone have a copy they would be willing to share?

--Bob Prosperi
11-02-2018, 03:51 AM
Post: #38
 Jlouis Senior Member Posts: 626 Joined: Nov 2014
RE: Do I dare to use my 41?
(10-28-2018 05:33 PM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote:
(10-28-2018 01:49 PM)Jlouis Wrote:  It's a pity that they intended to make the 42s a replacement of the 15c without preserving the perfect form factor of the later

They finally saw the light and closed the landscape line once and forever (well if they will be able to kill the 12C, one day).

Hallelujah!

I really don't see a 20.000 signatures petition to bring back the 42s...or the 41 series...but we saw for the 15c and it happened!! And the 12c is still in production!!!

But let's not start it again, right?

Salute from Rio
11-02-2018, 03:58 AM
Post: #39
 Sukiari Member Posts: 117 Joined: Dec 2014
RE: Do I dare to use my 41?
(10-24-2018 06:21 PM)berserkerbernhard Wrote:  Greetings, programs.

I finally got my 41CV working with my card reader. It's so amazing to watch it work. IT is truely a small computer system.

I dream of retirering my HP Prime and go for the 41. But what if it breaks? I can easily get a replacement Prime, but a 41 would be expensive.

What are your thoughts on this? Do you use the 41 for daily stuff?

/Bernhard, OZ9WTN, Denmark

I bought a DM42 and loke it so much that I will buy another some day soon. I am retiring my classic HP calculators, they are better as eye candy on a shelf. Also there are retired guys here who are driving the prices up to unbelieveable levels ;^) and I hope to take some of their pensions away in auctions.
11-02-2018, 10:06 AM
Post: #40
 Massimo Gnerucci Senior Member Posts: 1,778 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Do I dare to use my 41?
(11-02-2018 03:51 AM)Jlouis Wrote:  I really don't see a 20.000 signatures petition to bring back the 42s...or the 41 series...but we saw for the 15c and it happened!! And the 12c is still in production!!!
Uncertified signatures, and with no commitment to buy, mean almost nothing.
It happened and... stopped again soon after.

(11-02-2018 03:51 AM)Jlouis Wrote:  But let's not start it again, right?

Just stop praising the landscape format and I will stay silent. Ok? ;)

Oh, and this is all tongue-in-cheek, of course. Sorry if I bother you with my comments.

My best wishes from Milan!

Greetings,
Massimo

-+×÷ ↔ left is right and right is wrong
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