71 & 75 Math ROMs, Series 80 Matrix ROM

[Valentin Albillo]

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Hi, J-F:

Thanks a lot for creating this thread (and giving it a more correct Subject than the one I suggested). Let's see:

(05-21-2018 04:08 PM)J-F Garnier Wrote:  The handbook and QRG are available on the HP75 group (access to files for registered users only), together with the HP75 Math ROM source file!

Very tempting but I'm not registering just to download a file or two, since right now I'm not interested in taking part in a Series 80 group, too many more urgent things to do and too little free time. A pity that the group includes the HP-75C/D but not the HP-71B which is a far superior machine in many respects. Thanks anyway.

Quote:I didn't remember that the Series 80 Matrix ROM had such more functionalities. Maybe it's time for me to re-start my old HP85...

Not being able to have a look at the Owner's Handbook for the 75C Math ROM I can't compare its matrix functionalities to the ones of the HP85 Matrix ROM but I do own the physical OH of this one, used the Matrix ROM extensively at the time, and frankly the HP71B Math ROM matrix functionalities are very severely lacking in comparison.

Quote:Sure. Complex numbers are managed as 2-element arrays and, for instance, to add two complex numbers you must do something like:
MAT Z = CADD(Z1,Z2)
But at least it exists, if you need complex numbers, you don't have to write your own routines as you have to in the Series 80.

Yes, I knew that they're handled using a 2x2 matrix convention but I would'nt call that "nicely integrated" or even "integrated". As you pretty well know, the HP-71B integrated complex numbers right from the start, in the mainframe, with the support for their syntax, adequate polls for a future ROM to handle them, etc, etc. You can type in 10 A=(2,3) with no Math ROM attached and it will pass muster syntactically speaking. Nothing of the sort exists in the HP-75C System ROMs.

Quote:This is surprising for me too. Even if the 71 Math LEX is only 27 kB long (the rest of the ROM is filled with 0), it makes a big difference of code size.

I knew about the 5 Kb of filler but didn't remember it right now. Yet another tick in the abominable things that were done to the HP-71B system by some #$&%! individuals in charge of the project.

To think that they utterly wasted 5 Kb which could have been put to extremely good use implementing the functionalities of the Series 80 Matrix ROM which were ultimately left behind, or to implement the complex case for the inverse hyperbolic functions (you can do SINH(Z) but not ASINH(Z), etc), or the determinant of a complex matrix (even the 42S does it !), or such new, valuable functionalities as a MAT SORT statement, say, and so on and so forth, ... yet instead they chose to fill up 5,000+ bytes with 0's !!!

Unforgivable.

Quote:I intent to compare the features of the 71 and 75 Math ROM more in details. But it will be the subject of another thread.

Please do. I'd love to help but without the 75C Math ROM's OH I can't so I'll simply read whatever you write on the subject.

Quote:If you still have some material of that time, we at the HP Series 80 group would love to see it, and preserve it if you permit.

It's problematic. The last time I saw these materials they were in the form of dot-matrix paper listings (many DIN A4 pages) and 5.25" floppy disks (or perhaps 3.5" floppies, not sure). Both listings and floppies must be stored in some big plastic containers somewhere in my house, untouched and unseen for the last 35+ years or so, and regrettably I have scores of plastic containers like those, so searching for them would be a gruesome, very time-consuming, dust-ridden task. Not likely to happen anytime soon but if I eventually find some or all of it, I'll let you know.

I also had assembly language listings for HP-85 BIN files which I created with some *software* assembler which was provided to me (stored in a tape together with the source code for most HP-created BIN files, extremely instructive) by some friends of mine who worked for HP. Later I got the Assembler ROM for the HP 80 series (same provider) and many other ROMs, most of them in fact. Regrettably I didn't keep any when I began working with other models (HP-9816/26/36, HP-150, Vectras, etc. ...)

Very interesting and exciting times then.

Best regards.
V.
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