Is the 12C SDK still available?
11-20-2015, 09:59 PM
Post: #1
 emece67 Senior Member Posts: 379 Joined: Feb 2015
Is the 12C SDK still available?
Hi all,

Perhaps somebody still keeps a copy.

Thanks & regards.
11-20-2015, 10:32 PM
Post: #2
 jebem Senior Member Posts: 1,343 Joined: Feb 2014
RE: Is the 12C SDK still available?
Check it here.

Jose Mesquita

11-20-2015, 10:47 PM
Post: #3
 emece67 Senior Member Posts: 379 Joined: Feb 2015
RE: Is the 12C SDK still available?

Thanks a lot & regards.
11-21-2015, 10:07 AM
Post: #4
 jebem Senior Member Posts: 1,343 Joined: Feb 2014
RE: Is the 12C SDK still available?
Hi, MC67,

Because of your post, I have just spent yet another 108 Euros on eBay Spain and acquired a new in the box (I hope so) HP-12C 30th Anniversary Edition, which I expect to be re-programmable like the HP-12C+.

By the way, what kind of calculator are you plan to use with the 12C+ SDK?

I can´t find any HP-12C+ for sale anywhere, be it use of in new condition.
All I see for sale is the 12C "Gold" with one CR2032 battery that I suppose is the current HP production model.

Thanks!

Regards,
Jose Mesquita

Jose Mesquita

11-21-2015, 04:01 PM (This post was last modified: 11-21-2015 04:04 PM by matthiaspaul.)
Post: #5
 matthiaspaul Senior Member Posts: 385 Joined: Jan 2015
RE: Is the 12C SDK still available?
(11-21-2015 10:07 AM)jebem Wrote:  I can´t find any HP-12C+ for sale anywhere, be it use of in new condition.
You won't find it under that name, as "HP-12C+" was only a nickname. It was marketed as "HP-12C" (F2230A) since 2008. Like your 2011 "HP 12c 30th Anniversary Edition" (NW258AA) model, it is based on the Atmel AT91SAM7L128 controller and takes two parallel CR2032 cells. While the processor is EOL and no longer in production since a number of years, the F2230A model is still available new for about 50 EUR in many shops - at least I am not aware of a newer model variant of the HP-12C, which had to be based on a different processor then.

Quote:All I see for sale is the 12C "Gold" with one CR2032 battery that I suppose is the current HP production model.
The HP-12C with only one CR2032 battery is an older model variant marketed between the late 1990s up to 2007. It is not based on the AT91SAM7L128 and not reflashable. I don't know the MPN of this variant.

Note that the original 2003 "HP 12c Platinum" (F2231A) model was based on the Sunplus SPLB20D2 processor and is not reflashable. The later "HP 12c Platinum" (F2232A) models, the "HP 12c Platinum 25th Anniversary Edition" (MPN unknown) and the "HP 12c Prestige" (F2233A) are all based on a Generalplus GPLB31A processor, not reflashable as well.
To complicate matters, several model variants are sailing under the F2232A label, the latest variant (since 2010) takes two CR2032 batteries (just like the F2230A). Nevertheless, while the 2010+ F2232A model of the 12c Platinum continues to be based on the GPLB31A, the 2008+ F2230A model of the 12C is - to the best of my knowledge - still based on the AT91SAM7L128.

Greetings,

Matthias

--
"Programs are poems for computers."
11-21-2015, 05:22 PM
Post: #6
 Katie Wasserman Super Moderator Posts: 637 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Is the 12C SDK still available?
(11-21-2015 04:01 PM)matthiaspaul Wrote:
(11-21-2015 10:07 AM)jebem Wrote:  I can´t find any HP-12C+ for sale anywhere, be it use of in new condition.
You won't find it under that name, as "HP-12C+" was only a nickname. It was marketed as "HP-12C" (F2230A) since 2008. Like your 2011 "HP 12c 30th Anniversary Edition" (NW258AA) model, it is based on the Atmel AT91SAM7L128 controller and takes two parallel CR2032 cells. While the processor is EOL and no longer in production since a number of years, the F2230A model is still available new for about 50 EUR in many shops - at least I am not aware of a newer model variant of the HP-12C, which had to be based on a different processor then.

Quote:All I see for sale is the 12C "Gold" with one CR2032 battery that I suppose is the current HP production model.
The HP-12C with only one CR2032 battery is an older model variant marketed between the late 1990s up to 2007. It is not based on the AT91SAM7L128 and not reflashable. I don't know the MPN of this variant.

Note that the original 2003 "HP 12c Platinum" (F2231A) model was based on the Sunplus SPLB20D2 processor and is not reflashable. The later "HP 12c Platinum" (F2232A) models, the "HP 12c Platinum 25th Anniversary Edition" (MPN unknown) and the "HP 12c Prestige" (F2233A) are all based on a Generalplus GPLB31A processor, not reflashable as well.
To complicate matters, several model variants are sailing under the F2232A label, the latest variant (since 2010) takes two CR2032 batteries (just like the F2230A). Nevertheless, while the 2010+ F2232A model of the 12c Platinum continues to be based on the GPLB31A, the 2008+ F2230A model of the 12C is - to the best of my knowledge - still based on the AT91SAM7L128.

To even further complicate matters the very latest 12C (regular, not sure about the Platinum) is based on a Atmel SAM4L processor (because the SAM7L was EOL as you said) -- the AT91SAM4L-EK -- that uses the same 6-pin interface for programming but it's USB not serial and therefore requires the use of cable with the same connector but without the USB-to-serial chip.

There are so many different versions of the 12C out there it's nearly impossible to keep up with them.

-katie

11-21-2015, 06:26 PM
Post: #7
 matthiaspaul Senior Member Posts: 385 Joined: Jan 2015
RE: Is the 12C SDK still available?
(11-21-2015 05:22 PM)Katie Wasserman Wrote:  To even further complicate matters the very latest 12C (regular, not sure about the Platinum) is based on a Atmel SAM4L processor (because the SAM7L was EOL as you said) -- the AT91SAM4L-EK -- that uses the same 6-pin interface for programming but it's USB not serial and therefore requires the use of cable with the same connector but without the USB-to-serial chip.
Thanks for the update! Do you know this variant's MPN (if different from F2230A) and since when it is in circulation?

Greetings,

Matthias

--
"Programs are poems for computers."
11-21-2015, 06:51 PM
Post: #8
 matthiaspaul Senior Member Posts: 385 Joined: Jan 2015
RE: Is the 12C SDK still available?
(11-21-2015 05:22 PM)Katie Wasserman Wrote:  -- the AT91SAM4L-EK -- that uses the same 6-pin interface for programming but it's USB not serial and therefore requires the use of cable with the same connector but without the USB-to-serial chip.
More questions:

Isn't "AT91SAM4L-EK" the part number of the evaluation klt? Do you know how the controller is actually labelled?

While the necessary signals are obvious, have you decoded the actual pinout of the 2x3 USB flash port?

Greetings,

Matthias

--
"Programs are poems for computers."
11-22-2015, 01:16 AM
Post: #9
 jebem Senior Member Posts: 1,343 Joined: Feb 2014
RE: Is the 12C SDK still available?
(11-21-2015 04:01 PM)matthiaspaul Wrote:  The later "HP 12c Platinum" (F2232A) models, the "HP 12c Platinum 25th Anniversary Edition" (MPN unknown) and the "HP 12c Prestige" (F2233A) are all based on a Generalplus GPLB31A processor, not reflashable as well.

Thank you for sharing here your information on the different models.

Concerning the HP 12c Platinum 25th Anniversary Edition, according to this datasheet the MPN should be F2231AA.

Jose Mesquita

11-22-2015, 01:17 AM
Post: #10
 emece67 Senior Member Posts: 379 Joined: Feb 2015
RE: Is the 12C SDK still available?
(11-21-2015 06:26 PM)matthiaspaul Wrote:
(11-21-2015 05:22 PM)Katie Wasserman Wrote:  To even further complicate matters the very latest 12C (regular, not sure about the Platinum) is based on a Atmel SAM4L processor (because the SAM7L was EOL as you said) -- the AT91SAM4L-EK -- that uses the same 6-pin interface for programming but it's USB not serial and therefore requires the use of cable with the same connector but without the USB-to-serial chip.
Thanks for the update! Do you know this variant's MPN (if different from F2230A) and since when it is in circulation?

Yes, thanks for the update. Perhaps I do not need a 30th anniversary one, but a shiny new, "standard" model.
11-22-2015, 02:01 AM
Post: #11
 jebem Senior Member Posts: 1,343 Joined: Feb 2014
RE: Is the 12C SDK still available?
(11-21-2015 05:22 PM)Katie Wasserman Wrote:
(11-21-2015 04:01 PM)matthiaspaul Wrote:  You won't find it under that name, as "HP-12C+" was only a nickname. It was marketed as "HP-12C" (F2230A) since 2008. Like your 2011 "HP 12c 30th Anniversary Edition" (NW258AA) model, it is based on the Atmel AT91SAM7L128 controller and takes two parallel CR2032 cells. While the processor is EOL and no longer in production since a number of years, the F2230A model is still available new for about 50 EUR in many shops - at least I am not aware of a newer model variant of the HP-12C, which had to be based on a different processor then.

The HP-12C with only one CR2032 battery is an older model variant marketed between the late 1990s up to 2007. It is not based on the AT91SAM7L128 and not reflashable. I don't know the MPN of this variant.

Note that the original 2003 "HP 12c Platinum" (F2231A) model was based on the Sunplus SPLB20D2 processor and is not reflashable. The later "HP 12c Platinum" (F2232A) models, the "HP 12c Platinum 25th Anniversary Edition" (MPN unknown) and the "HP 12c Prestige" (F2233A) are all based on a Generalplus GPLB31A processor, not reflashable as well.
To complicate matters, several model variants are sailing under the F2232A label, the latest variant (since 2010) takes two CR2032 batteries (just like the F2230A). Nevertheless, while the 2010+ F2232A model of the 12c Platinum continues to be based on the GPLB31A, the 2008+ F2230A model of the 12C is - to the best of my knowledge - still based on the AT91SAM7L128.

To even further complicate matters the very latest 12C (regular, not sure about the Platinum) is based on a Atmel SAM4L processor (because the SAM7L was EOL as you said) -- the AT91SAM4L-EK -- that uses the same 6-pin interface for programming but it's USB not serial and therefore requires the use of cable with the same connector but without the USB-to-serial chip.

There are so many different versions of the 12C out there it's nearly impossible to keep up with them.

To even confuse things a little more, HP sites, be it English or Portuguese ones, advertise two HP-12C models:
- The 12CP as F2231AA#ABA
- And the 12C as 12C#ABA

And to really confuse even more, once we look to the 12C details, it informs that it uses just one battery cell, confirmed in the pictures as well.

So, despite we know that the MPN F2230A is the 12C+, HP do not advertise it anymore. Why would they do that?

Jose Mesquita

11-22-2015, 05:47 AM (This post was last modified: 11-22-2015 05:48 AM by Dwight Sturrock.)
Post: #12
 Dwight Sturrock Member Posts: 136 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Is the 12C SDK still available?
I recently purchased a 12C with a 2015 serial code date, and it definitely has (2) batteries.
11-22-2015, 06:31 AM (This post was last modified: 11-22-2015 06:34 AM by Katie Wasserman.)
Post: #13
 Katie Wasserman Super Moderator Posts: 637 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Is the 12C SDK still available?
(11-21-2015 06:51 PM)matthiaspaul Wrote:  More questions:

Isn't "AT91SAM4L-EK" the part number of the evaluation klt? Do you know how the controller is actually labelled?

Yeah, that's just the designation to use for SAM-BA, the chip is actually a ATSAM4LC2CA

Quote:While the necessary signals are obvious, have you decoded the actual pinout of the 2x3 USB flash port?

looking at the back of the calculator:

||
|| 1 2 3 ||
|| 4 5 6 ||
||

1 - reset button (connect to ground)
2 - ground
3 - erase button (connect to pin 4)
4 - erase button (connect to pin 3)
5 - USB green wire (data -)
6 - USB white wire (data +)

note that +5 volt from USB is not connected.

Quote:Do you know this variant's MPN (if different from F2230A) and since when it is in circulation?

I don't know if the MPN has changed. The version with the SAM4L chip was likely released sometime earlier this year, maybe in the March/April time frame. Firmware has changed, of course, to support the new chip.

-katie

11-22-2015, 10:12 AM
Post: #14
 jebem Senior Member Posts: 1,343 Joined: Feb 2014
RE: Is the 12C SDK still available?
(11-22-2015 06:31 AM)Katie Wasserman Wrote:
Quote:Do you know this variant's MPN (if different from F2230A) and since when it is in circulation?

I don't know if the MPN has changed. The version with the SAM4L chip was likely released sometime earlier this year, maybe in the March/April time frame. Firmware has changed, of course, to support the new chip.

Thank you so much for your excellent insight information, Katie!

Do you know if this new March/April-2015 HP-12C ATSAM4LC2C based calculator uses just one CR2032 battery cell?

I ask this because assuming that the 2015 HP official adverts are correct (and I have no reason to tell otherwise), they show just two 12C current models:
- HP-12C
- HP-12C Platinum
And both are advertised in the text and in the pictures as using just one single CR2032 battery cell.

Using a single battery cell instead of paralleling two cells make sense to me for several reasons:
1.- Lower production and operation costs;
2.- From electrical point of view, paralleling batteries can result in sub-optimal operation;
3.- The new ATSAM4LC2C SoC is much less power hungry than the previous AT91SAM7L128 generation, while it can run at a faster raw clock speed, allowing to use just one battery cell and most probably enjoy the same autonomy.
- AT91SAM7L128 = 30mA@38MHz (please see page 2)
- ATSAM4LC2C = 14.69mA@48MHz (worst case scenario, please see page 49)

It seems that in this case, not only HP is doing a fine job by offering the excellent proved 12C algorithms to their customers since 1981, but it is also faster updating it with more efficient and up to date SoC h/w platforms than any other people responsible/wiling/able-to/with-the-inside-knowledge (chose as appropriate) to maintain the public domain forums and repositories (like Wikipedia) with up to date information!

Jose Mesquita

11-22-2015, 10:25 AM (This post was last modified: 11-22-2015 10:50 AM by jebem.)
Post: #15
 jebem Senior Member Posts: 1,343 Joined: Feb 2014
RE: Is the 12C SDK still available?
(11-22-2015 05:47 AM)Dwight Sturrock Wrote:  I recently purchased a 12C with a 2015 serial code date, and it definitely has (2) batteries.

Thanks for sharing it.

Could you please inform about the 6-pin interface plug on the back?
Maybe you could post a picture of it. Thanks!

"CNA522..." translates to Year 2015 week 22.
You may have received one of the last production batches using the two CR2013 battery cells enclosures.

According to the above information from Katie, the previous AT91SAM7L128 was replaced by a new ATSAM4LC2C SoC.

And assuming that HP 2015 adverts are correct, the newer versions are now using just one single CR2032 battery cell.

Let's wait for additional contributions from the experts to clarify this interesting point.

Jose Mesquita

11-22-2015, 11:36 AM
Post: #16
 matthiaspaul Senior Member Posts: 385 Joined: Jan 2015
RE: Is the 12C SDK still available?
(11-22-2015 06:31 AM)Katie Wasserman Wrote:  note that +5 volt from USB is not connected.
So the port is meant to be used for flashing only. For transfer of data/programs at runtime, the VBUS signal would be needed so the calculator can reliably detect that it gets connected to a host - but that would require modifications to the original 12C firmware image anyway - well, assuming this new version of the HP 12C is based on an adapted version of the Nut emulator and not running a functional reimplementation of the 12C natively.

Quote:The version with the SAM4L chip was likely released sometime earlier this year, maybe in the March/April time frame.
This would fit in nicely with my observation that the 12C (but not the 12c Platinum) was out of supply in several of the larger calculator online shops over here for some while earlier this year.

Does the new version come with one or two CR2032 cells? Are there other differences in the labelling on the calculator (except for the serial number) or the package to reliably distinguish this from the older version pre-purchase?

Greetings,

Matthias

--
"Programs are poems for computers."
11-22-2015, 12:06 PM
Post: #17
 matthiaspaul Senior Member Posts: 385 Joined: Jan 2015
RE: Is the 12C SDK still available?
(11-22-2015 10:25 AM)jebem Wrote:
(11-22-2015 05:47 AM)Dwight Sturrock Wrote:  I recently purchased a 12C with a 2015 serial code date, and it definitely has (2) batteries.
[...]
"CNA522..." translates to Year 2015 week 22.
You may have received one of the last production batches using the two CR2013 battery cells enclosures.
[...]
And assuming that HP 2015 adverts are correct, the newer versions are now using just one single CR2032 battery cell.
It's quite possible that HP never updated their support info that older versions of the 12C (ca. 1999 - ca. 2007) and 12c Platinum/Prestige (2003 - ca. 2009) used one CR2032, while newer ones (2008+ for the 12C and 2010+ for the 12c Platinum) used two CR2032 cells.

Quote:Let's wait for additional contributions from the experts to clarify this interesting point.
Yes, whoever bought a 12C (or 12c Platinum) since 2014 might have a closer look as well.

Greetings,

Matthias

--
"Programs are poems for computers."
11-22-2015, 04:52 PM (This post was last modified: 11-22-2015 05:08 PM by Katie Wasserman.)
Post: #18
 Katie Wasserman Super Moderator Posts: 637 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Is the 12C SDK still available?
Lot's of questions.........

- The latest 12 (regular) with the SAM4LC2CA chip still uses 2 CR2032 cells in parallel and the physical case is indistinguishable from the prior Atmel version.

- The SAM4LC2CA version is slightly faster than the prior version, I measured about 10% faster, not as much as a 48MHz to 32MHz clock rate would indicate.

- Current draw is arguably improved, rough measurements are:
Code:
                    OLD          NEW OFF               3.5uA        1.0uA ON                47 uA       120 uA KEY DOWN         550 uA       120 uA RUNNING           21 mA        13 mA

The running current was what killed the low battery functionality previously. The ON current has doubled on the new version, so it's sort of a tradeoff, but I think for the better.

- Low battery indicator works better on the new version. The trigger point seems to be about 2.5 volts and this is tested every 30 key presses (or so). However it still might fail if the internal resistance of the CR2032 cells gets too high.

- In my sample, the back plate is printed slightly differently on the latest version. But I don't know if this is significant as this might change often between batch runs.

-katie

11-22-2015, 05:03 PM (This post was last modified: 11-22-2015 05:05 PM by Katie Wasserman.)
Post: #19
 Katie Wasserman Super Moderator Posts: 637 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Is the 12C SDK still available?
(11-22-2015 05:47 AM)Dwight Sturrock Wrote:  I recently purchased a 12C with a 2015 serial code date, and it definitely has (2) batteries.

You can confirm if you have the latest Atmel chip by checking the firmware date as follows:

Hold down <g> + <ENTER> when turning on the calculator.
You'll see the "1.L 2.C, 3.H" menu
press <2>
You'll see the checksum
press <ENTER>
You'll see the firmware date as YYYY-MM-DD

If it's in 2015, you have the new Atmel version. My sample is 2015-01-30.

-katie

11-22-2015, 05:47 PM
Post: #20
 rprosperi Super Moderator Posts: 5,431 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Is the 12C SDK still available?
(11-22-2015 04:52 PM)Katie Wasserman Wrote:  ...the physical case is indistinguishable from the prior Atmel version.

- In my sample, the back plate is printed slightly differently on the latest version. But I don't know if this is significant as this might change often between batch runs.

Katie:

Thanks for all these great details!

A few questions:

1. If the case (and presumably the 6-pin connector) are the same, is there any danger of harming the new units if I use the older (serial) cable? Or I suppose the opposite as well (though less likely with lower voltages?)

2. Can you post a pic of the new back-plate design (unless it's pre-production, then it's kinda meaningless)?

Thanks.

--Bob Prosperi
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