HP Forum Archive 21

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Bought a 16C to compensate a little Message #1 Posted by Eelco Rouw on 7 Dec 2013, 3:12 a.m. Hi Everybody, The forum is flooded with HP prime posts and I am happily joining in. However, I do agree that it would be good to have a separate place for these posts. Just to compensate a little I bought a 16C off eBay. I have fond memories of this calc when I was a little kid. And now it seems to be an excellent addition to my calculating needs as I like to do some FPGA programming and microcontroller stuff for my hobby. I think a lot of the Prime users here also have other HP calcs. I do at least. I have a 32S, 28S, 49G, 50G and 35S and I tend to agree that the older models have a more distinguished and solid feel. My goody will arrive within a week or so. Looking forward!!! Kind regards, Eelco

Re: Bought a 16C to compensate a little Message #2 Posted by Walter B on 7 Dec 2013, 4:45 a.m., in response to message #1 by Eelco Rouw Please note that everything an HP-16C can do can also be performed by a WP 34S. The latter may cost a little less. d:-)

Re: Bought a 16C to compensate a little Message #3 Posted by plivesey on 7 Dec 2013, 6:45 a.m., in response to message #2 by Walter B Having recently bought a 16C too I have a question about the WP34S. Is there an easy way to enter a number > 12 digits? For example, whats the easiest way of entering a 64bit hex number? Can it be done in one step because I can't work out how to! Apart from that it's a great calculator, my compliments and gratitude to all the people involved. Paul

Re: Bought a 16C to compensate a little Message #4 Posted by Paul Dale on 7 Dec 2013, 6:58 a.m., in response to message #3 by plivesey There isn't an easy way to input long numbers. This generally hasn't been a big problem, it isn't difficult to build large numbers from smaller ones and OR or +. A similar problem exists for real numbers. There is an internal RAM limit making this troublesome -- to allow arbitrary input we'd need a 65 byte input buffer. The current input buffer is 20 bytes which is adequate for 12 digit scientific numbers. The difficulty, is we don't have 45 bytes of RAM space left. I think it is a couple of bits. With some clever recoding, it might be possible to remove the need for the input buffer entirely and to use a register instead. This will consume more code space (which is also pretty full) but would likely save a few bytes of RAM. - Pauli

Re: Bought a 16C to compensate a little Message #5 Posted by plivesey on 7 Dec 2013, 7:24 a.m., in response to message #4 by Paul Dale Thanks for the explanation, I rather suspected that it was due to limited resources. It's not a problem, more of a niggle and my only one with the calculator. Paul

Re: Bought a 16C to compensate a little Message #6 Posted by Eelco Rouw on 7 Dec 2013, 7:19 a.m., in response to message #2 by Walter B Hi Walter, Nah, where's the fun in that? ;-) Have been looking at one of the HHC presentation which details the mapping of 16C functions to the WP34s. I am quite impressed. However, the 16C has an emotional value to me and I love the beauty of the little machine. This cannot be compensated by any modern machine. Kind regards, Eelco

Re: Bought a 16C to compensate a little Message #7 Posted by Don Shepherd on 7 Dec 2013, 8:26 a.m., in response to message #2 by Walter B That's kind of like saying everything a Porsche can do can also be performed by a Mack truck. It's just not the same.

Re: Bought a 16C to compensate a little Message #8 Posted by Egan Ford on 7 Dec 2013, 11:19 a.m., in response to message #7 by Don Shepherd +1 The 16C is optimized for one type of workload, and that makes is superior to the 34S for that particulate type of workload, IOW, the 16C provides a better experience. I've tried to use the 34S as a universal calculator, but I always gravitate to the 15C and 16C (and at times the 12C). If I were at home I'd send a picture of my calculator stack sorted by MRU--the 34S is on the bottom (16C, 15C, 12C on top). 42S, 41, 48, 50, etc... all in the closet. The simplicity of no menus offered by the C-series compels me to use them most. Now if I could only have one calculator, well then, I'd probably be the 34S. I also support any calculator with a open development model. The problem is, which 34S? IIRC, mine has the 2.x keyboard layout not supported by the latest code. That has made for a poor experience with the 34S. I've considered purchasing an updated version from Eric ($75), but I am not confident that 34S development will not change the key map again. Fortunately, there is an answer to this problem--34S for the iPhone (Pascal if you are reading this, thanks! (thanks to the 34S team as well). Feature request: user definable colors for f,g,h). I do not travel with calculators (unless going to HHC :-), so 34S on iPhone it is.

Re: Bought a 16C to compensate a little Message #9 Posted by Didier Lachieze on 7 Dec 2013, 1:26 p.m., in response to message #8 by Egan Ford When I moved from the 2.x to the 3.x firmware on my WP 34S, I replaced also the overlay. Much cheaper than buying a new unit.

Re: Bought a 16C to compensate a little Message #10 Posted by Les Bell on 7 Dec 2013, 9:47 p.m., in response to message #9 by Didier Lachieze Quote: When I moved from the 2.x to the 3.x firmware on my WP 34S, I replaced also the overlay. Didier, was it a horrible gooey mess? Did you have to replace everything, or just some of the keys? --- Les [http://www.lesbell.com.au]

Re: Bought a 16C to compensate a little Message #11 Posted by Paul Dale on 7 Dec 2013, 9:48 p.m., in response to message #10 by Les Bell My overlay came off pretty easily when I switched to the v3 layout. I used a bit of alcohol to clean everything properly. - Pauli

Re: Bought a 16C to compensate a little Message #12 Posted by Didier Lachieze on 8 Dec 2013, 2:20 a.m., in response to message #10 by Les Bell I replaced everything. As for Pauli it was very easy to remove the overlay, including the keytops. You need to clean the small remainings of glue to ensure that the new overlay will stick correctly. Edited: 8 Dec 2013, 2:21 a.m.

Re: Bought a 16C to compensate a little Message #13 Posted by Les Bell on 8 Dec 2013, 3:52 a.m., in response to message #12 by Didier Lachieze Quote: I replaced everything. As for Pauli it was very easy to remove the overlay, including the keytops. You need to clean the small remainings of glue to ensure that the new overlay will stick correctly. Thanks, Didier and Pauli - I'll git 'er done in January some time. Best, --- Les [http://www.lesbell.com.au]

Re: Bought a 16C to compensate a little Message #14 Posted by Walter B on 7 Dec 2013, 1:35 p.m., in response to message #8 by Egan Ford Quote: I am not confident that 34S development will not change the key map again. Your fault ;-) I'm confident. The WP 34S project is closed as stated here more than once - we will remove bugs whenever there are any but nothing more. d:-)

Re: Bought a 16C to compensate a little Message #15 Posted by Patrice on 7 Dec 2013, 2:45 p.m., in response to message #8 by Egan Ford Agreed, When it comes to binary stuff, the HP16C is almost unmatched because the keyboard is dedicated to this usage.

Re: Bought a 16C to compensate a little Message #16 Posted by Les Bell on 7 Dec 2013, 6:45 p.m., in response to message #8 by Egan Ford Quote: The simplicity of no menus offered by the C-series compels me to use them most. I must admit, I've fallen for the Voyagers myself - although the complexity of the 15C makes it daunting for occasional use. I've had a 16C since it was first introduced, but didn't have a 15C, so grabbed a 15CLE last year. While I love the form factor, there's a lot of complexity hidden under that keyboard, so I padded the "collection" out further with an 11C, which seems to me to represent the sweet spot for a shirt-pocket scientific. (I also grabbed a 12C, just to keep my accountant on the straight and narrow - pop it on the table during meetings and they realize you might have a clue, after all. ;) And while I was at it, my wife - who does some basic stats and had previously owned a 32E and 18C - needed a decent calculator, so now she has a 12C, too). But the top of my MRU stack would have to be the 41CV/CX. Loaded up with the Advantage module and two X-Mem modules, there's not much it can't do - but I still have the card reader, 82143A printer and lots of other modules up my sleeve if required, not to mention go-41cx on my phone. Like you, my 34S languishes in the drawer. When I get some time, I'll upgrade it to 3.x. Sigh - so many toys, so little time. . . Best, --- Les [http://www.lesbell.com.au]

Re: Bought a 16C to compensate a little Message #17 Posted by Nick_S on 8 Dec 2013, 6:02 a.m., in response to message #16 by Les Bell I would not like to be without the solver which is easy to use, and the integrate function also works well, but I could lose the matrix and complex number facilities which are clumsy with a one-line display. I guess I would have liked something along the lines of the HP-34c in a Voyager arrangement -- perhaps called an HP-13C. Nick

Re: Bought a 16C to compensate a little Message #18 Posted by Walter B on 8 Dec 2013, 6:50 a.m., in response to message #17 by Nick_S "Complex number facilities" can be done elegantly with a one-line display if it looks like one line of the HP-42S of 1988. But, alas, HP does not provide a repurposable calculator featuring such an LCD ... (bemoaned here many times for years). Ceterum censeo: HP, think about it! d:-(

Re: Bought a 16C to compensate a little Message #19 Posted by Les Bell on 8 Dec 2013, 6:31 p.m., in response to message #17 by Nick_S Quote: I would not like to be without the solver which is easy to use, and the integrate function also works well, but I could lose the matrix and complex number facilities which are clumsy with a one-line display. It's not so much the display that's a problem for the 41 - after all, the alpha register can display a complete complex number quite nicely with a little programming - but the fact that the Advantage ROM complex number routines are straight FOCAL code which uses only the machine stack and can therefore provide only a two-level complex stack. This means workarounds or intermediate storage are required to calculate even quite simple expressions such as u / (v + w). The 15C does provide a much more capable complex implementation - but, my word, that I key is simply overloaded with meanings! Best, --- Les [http://www.lesbell.com.au]

Re: Bought a 16C to compensate a little Message #20 Posted by Mark Storkamp on 7 Dec 2013, 8:34 a.m., in response to message #2 by Walter B Quote: Please note that everything an HP-16C can do can also be performed by a WP 34S. The latter may cost a little less. d:-) How long do the batteries last on the 34s? My 16c still has it's originals. :-)

Re: Bought a 16C to compensate a little Message #21 Posted by R. Pienne on 7 Dec 2013, 8:42 a.m., in response to message #1 by Eelco Rouw Was it yourself who bought the 16C with Dutch manuals on Ebay? I was watching that, but finally decided to stick with my just-one-calculator policy. The ending price was quite reasonable if I remember correctly.

Re: Bought a 16C to compensate a little Message #22 Posted by Eelco Rouw on 7 Dec 2013, 8:44 a.m., in response to message #21 by R. Pienne No, that would have been nice, but I settled for a HP16C for $160 dollars in very good condition without the manuals. This will be my first voyager. Would also love to buy the 15C and 12C but the price of the 15C is so high at this moment.

Re: Bought a 16C to compensate a little Message #23 Posted by Egan Ford on 7 Dec 2013, 11:22 a.m., in response to message #1 by Eelco Rouw Quote: Just to compensate a little I bought a 16C off eBay. I have fond memories of this calc when I was a little kid. And now it seems to be an excellent addition to my calculating needs as I like to do some FPGA programming and microcontroller stuff for my hobby. I use mine for hobby 8/16-bit assembly programming. There is no substitute.

Re: Bought a 16C to compensate a little Message #24 Posted by Eelco Rouw on 7 Dec 2013, 1:26 p.m., in response to message #23 by Egan Ford I agree! I am working on some softcores on the FPGA. It is great to do some arithmetic and being able to easily change wordsizes. I am seriously pondering to buy a 15C as well. 12C would also be great. Regards, Eelco

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