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Latest HP Prime "emulator" software available :)
Message #1 Posted by Adrien Bertrand on 7 Aug 2013, 7:59 a.m.

Hi all,

Today HP decided to publicly release the latest version of the HP Prime computer software.

As you will be able to see, many many bugs were fixed since the "leaked" pre-release !

You can download it here : http://tiplanet.org/forum/archives_voir.php?id=19496

Enjoy !

      
Re: Latest HP Prime "emulator" software available :)
Message #2 Posted by Kimberly Thompson on 7 Aug 2013, 8:33 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Adrien Bertrand

KUDOS!

            
Re: Latest HP Prime "emulator" software available :)
Message #3 Posted by Andy B (Australia) on 7 Aug 2013, 10:03 a.m.,
in response to message #2 by Kimberly Thompson

Well its early days for the HP Prime as I don't think its even released yet, so all I can go by is the emulator. There are also some early youtube videos of a physical unit that look tantalising.

This seems to be an attempt at the TI-Nspire market for students rather than the hard core programmable rpn crowd. Then again the programming language is more traditional, powerful and a will be a boon for writing programs.

Trouble is, I can't figure out how to get parameters off the 'stack' or back onto it. Input parameters for programs are prompted for in a popup. Output e.g. print("fred") gets written to a special output screen. This disassociation between the 'stack' and the programming system hampers a potentially powerful calculator. I hope I'm wrong here?

P.S. Yes there is the 'define a function' stuff which possibly takes variables as parameters, but the functions I defined don't seem to work in the emulator (bugs? incomplete?), so its hard to experiment fully - plus there is only so much you can do with a cheap little one line define function anyway.

                  
Re: Latest HP Prime "emulator" software available :)
Message #4 Posted by Tim Wessman on 7 Aug 2013, 10:32 a.m.,
in response to message #3 by Andy B (Australia)

Like nearly all common programming languages, it is function based.

Each "program" source file can contain many functions or variables. They are scoped for the source file unless prefaced with an "export". A local keyword inside a program makes the variable local to that block.

==============
abc;
export fgh;

sumList(myInput)
begin
local a,b,c; //won't do anything really, just showing a local variable in a block
fgh:=myInput+fgh;
end;

export MyFunc(a,b,c)
begin
fgh:={1,2,3};
abc:=fgh;
abc+sumList({a,b,c});
end;
==============
Here you have abc which is local to this file. fgh is exported and usable anywhere in the calculator (stack, plotting, solving, etc). "sumList" is a function only in scope for this file. MyFunc is now useable in the entire system and works on the stack, plotting, etc.

From the stack, 1 2 3 MyFunc in rpn returns {3,6,9}. In alg mode, MyFunc(1,2,3) returns {3,6,9} (note that the last item in a function is the return object by default) - no need to explicitly return it.

fgh on the stack returns your variable. abc will not since it doesn't exist outside the functions in that source file.

The print really is just to give people who want a simple place to display stuff temporarily a location to do so. Really, more designed for basic, simple users just learning.

TW

Edited: 7 Aug 2013, 10:37 a.m.

                  
Re: Latest HP Prime "emulator" software available :)
Message #5 Posted by Gilles Carpentier on 7 Aug 2013, 11:33 a.m.,
in response to message #3 by Andy B (Australia)

Quote:
Trouble is, I can't figure out how to get parameters off the 'stack' or back onto it.

Here if for example a program wich returns a+b*2 on the 'stack' 

EXPORT MyProg(a,b)    // a, b are input data. No type data
BEGIN
 RETURN a+2*b;        // return is optionnal. Prime (like 39GII always returns the last calculation)
END;

Usage (in HOME)

MyProg(5,2)

-> 9

MyProg ([[1,2],[3,4]],[[1,1],[1,1]])

-> [[3,4],[5,6]]

Variables and Programs can be globals, locals, specific to an APP ...

Edited: 7 Aug 2013, 11:37 a.m.

      
Re: Latest HP Prime "emulator" software available :)
Message #6 Posted by Waon Shinyoe (China) on 7 Aug 2013, 10:48 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Adrien Bertrand

Great thanks adriweb ;) It seems that several bugs exits in 39gii are also corrected. The integration of x*exp(x-exp(x)) no longer returns error like what happened on a 39gii or the pre-release version. However, the Chinese translation is still not very good. For example, the function floor and ceil are translated directly as a real thing in a room (I hope you can understand what I mean XD)

            
Re: Latest HP Prime "emulator" software available :)
Message #7 Posted by Gilles Carpentier on 7 Aug 2013, 12:22 p.m.,
in response to message #6 by Waon Shinyoe (China)

I also noticed that the size of programs in bytes is much much smaller than the 39gII

                  
Re: Latest HP Prime "emulator" software available :)
Message #8 Posted by Patrice on 7 Aug 2013, 5:26 p.m.,
in response to message #7 by Gilles Carpentier

You see only source code + EXPORTed vars in Prime.

In HP39GII the program also embedded the binary form of the program (and it was big)

      
Re: Latest HP Prime "emulator" software available :)
Message #9 Posted by Gilles Carpentier on 7 Aug 2013, 11:47 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Adrien Bertrand

I like how you can 'move' a graph in the APP Function just with the mouse : I suppose it will be the same with your finger ;)

The + - key for zoom in zoom out is instantaneous. We will se on real hardware ;)

I like the Advanced Graphic. Ex

Chose APPS Advanced grapher

Symb :

X²+Y²=10

(X+5)²+(Y-5)²<25

Plot :

Edited: 7 Aug 2013, 11:49 a.m.

      
Re: Latest HP Prime "emulator" software available :)
Message #10 Posted by Lode on 7 Aug 2013, 1:47 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Adrien Bertrand

I typed:

5 ENTER 8 PLUS

but nothing happened and when pressing ENTER again it said "syntax error"...

            
Re: Latest HP Prime "emulator" software available :)
Message #11 Posted by Tim Wessman on 7 Aug 2013, 2:08 p.m.,
in response to message #10 by Lode

Where?

                  
Re: Latest HP Prime "emulator" software available :)
Message #12 Posted by fhub on 7 Aug 2013, 2:21 p.m.,
in response to message #11 by Tim Wessman

Well, he is in ALG mode.

Franz

            
Re: Latest HP Prime "emulator" software available :)
Message #13 Posted by Gilles Carpentier on 7 Aug 2013, 4:44 p.m.,
in response to message #10 by Lode

Quote:
"I typed:

5 ENTER 8 PLUS

but nothing happened and when pressing ENTER again it said "syntax error"... "

Shift Setting

Entry : RPN

But only for HOME. No RPN in the CAS system

Edited: 7 Aug 2013, 4:46 p.m.

                  
Re: Latest HP Prime "emulator" software available :)
Message #14 Posted by Tim Wessman on 7 Aug 2013, 4:58 p.m.,
in response to message #13 by Gilles Carpentier

> But only for HOME

Or dialogs, or forms, or equation entry in SYMB, or the spreadsheet...

TW

      
Re: Latest HP Prime "emulator" software available :)
Message #15 Posted by Andy B (Australia) on 7 Aug 2013, 8:05 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Adrien Bertrand

Am now getting a bit excited - this might be the best hp calc yet?

Anybody know how to assign functions to keys? I can get into 'user' mode but not sure how to make the assignments.

Also, it would be nice if all functions are listed in the menus of the programming editor, not just a subset. I mean, its whilst in the editor that I need to know what functions are available. Is that just an emulator limitation I wonder?

It is good however that you can be looking at a menu item e.g. a function e.g. DIM, and you can hit the help button and see a help screen - brilliant.

            
Re: Latest HP Prime "emulator" software available :)
Message #16 Posted by Tim Wessman on 7 Aug 2013, 9:45 p.m.,
in response to message #15 by Andy B (Australia)

Quote:
Am now getting a bit excited - this might be the best hp calc yet?

Glad you seem to be feeling a bit of excitement.

I don't know if I would personally go *quite* that far yet. It definitely is in quite a few areas, but there are still some that need some improvements before I'd make a serious attempt to argue that with anyone yet. I'll be doing everything possible to get there as quick as possible though! :-)

And "best" can me so many different things to so many people...

Quote:
Anybody know how to assign functions to keys? I can get into 'user' mode but not sure how to make the assignments.

p455 in the user guide. However, *sigh* looks like the table has been left incomplete. :-(

The easiest way to do it is to use the little "Create user key" tool found in the program editor menu button. Press the menu key and select it. It asks you to press a key. Press your key combo, and it returns a stub such as

KEY KSA_6() BEGIN

END;

Put your program in there. If you return a number, this signifies you want it to execute that specific key. A string if returned will return that text.

Note that you can not only have key assignments in global program files, but they can be in a specific app's program file. You can thus have key assignments that only apply when that specific application is active.

Quote:
Also, it would be nice if all functions are listed in the menus of the programming editor, not just a subset. I mean, its whilst in the editor that I need to know what functions are available. Is that just an emulator limitation I wonder?

No. I think all, or nearly all the "program" commands are there, but the math functions and things reside in the normal location.

In all honesty, the user programming editor was not super high on the priority list. It has some good improvements, but there are lots of great things that can be done now that we have color, touch and power behind it.

Quote:
It is good however that you can be looking at a menu item e.g. a function e.g. DIM, and you can hit the help button and see a help screen - brilliant.

The goal was to have that system wide. Anywhere you are, pressing help should bring up something useful. You also have example, related commands, and search in the help too.

TW

Edited: 7 Aug 2013, 9:48 p.m.

                  
Re: Latest HP Prime "emulator" software available :)
Message #17 Posted by Richard Berler on 7 Aug 2013, 10:01 p.m.,
in response to message #16 by Tim Wessman

Hi Tim...

I got an unexpected result.

integral of (3/(2-cos(x))^2 from -pi to 0 gives the expected answer of 2*pi*sqrt3

the same function integrated from 0 to pi gives 9*pi instead of 2*pi*sqrt3

textbook,radians

                        
Re: Latest HP Prime "emulator" software available :)
Message #18 Posted by Tim Wessman on 7 Aug 2013, 11:32 p.m.,
in response to message #17 by Richard Berler

Hmm. I am not seeing that and not matter what I try they come out the same and correct.

(also, assuming you mean (3/(2-cos(x)))^2... stupid parenthesis :-)

Send me an email myname at hp.com and lets try to figure that out.

timwessman

                              
Re: Latest HP Prime "emulator" software available :)
Message #19 Posted by Richard Berler on 8 Aug 2013, 9:43 p.m.,
in response to message #18 by Tim Wessman

Nothing wrong with the emulator on my example...Tim saw that I had used a function calling for X with respect to dx instead of x with respect to dx (had inadvertantly used mixed cases).

Great to have Tim in this Forum from HP!

                  
Re: Latest HP Prime "emulator" software available :)
Message #20 Posted by Andy B (Australia) on 7 Aug 2013, 10:37 p.m.,
in response to message #16 by Tim Wessman

Quote:
p455 in the user guide. However, *sigh* looks like the table has been left incomplete. :-(

The easiest way to do it is to use the little "Create user key" tool found in the program editor menu button. Press the menu key and select it. It asks you to press a key. Press your key combo, and it returns a stub such as

Well now that I've found the manuals in the "c:\Program Files\Hewlett Packard\HP Prime Virtual Calculator" directory that's going to help a lot. Though, I cannot find the "Create user key" tool you refer to. Its not a menu item within the program editor, nor when looking at the list of programs.

Anyway, I was finally able to re-define a key to the Sin key position by defining a program (weird approach, but hey, let's go with it):

KEY K_Sin()
BEGIN
  return "fred()";
END

where fred is one of my programs that takes a single parameter. So, In normal textbook mode, fred() gets emitted with the cursor inside the brackets. I then type the value for the parameter and hit Enter, and yey - it works.

But what about running my fred program on an existing value in the stack? I guess I have to not return "fred()" and instead just return "fred" and ensure the cursor is positioned before the value in the stack input area (copying that previous value into the stack input area if needed), then hit the user key, which inserts "fred" before my value. Then I have to manually add the opening bracket, move to the end of the line, add the closing bracket, then hit Enter. Phew. That sounds like a lot of work compared to the one click consumption of a stack parameter in traditional hp calculators. Am I on the right track here?

So I switch to rpn mode, and hit my user defined function key, and "fred()" gets squirted out. I hit Enter and yes, that works. Much faster approach - but still, I have to hit Enter - an extra step after hitting any custom key. Normally in the past, one click was all that was needed.

Quote:
Note that you can not only have key assignments in global program files, but they can be in a specific app's program file. You can thus have key assignments that only apply when that specific application is active.

Will have to read the manual some more re this, but it sounds great. However I'm looking at those blank 'soft key' areas on the screen and wondering how to have user custom programs launched from there whilst in normal global mode (not using an app). Can't see anything obvious in the manual, but will read more carefully tonight. After all, these soft key areas have been the traditional 'soft custom keys' in previous hp models, and it would be nice to be able customise those as we have done in the past.

And the popup view menu looks like another interesting customisation, will have to figure out how that relates to key customisation.

Quote:
No. I think all, or nearly all the "program" commands are there, but the math functions and things reside in the normal location.

After you told me this, I realised that I can actually bring up all the functions available in the calculator whilst in the editor - yey! Just pressing the 'toolbox' key brings up lists of commands and selecting them causes the text to be inserted in the editor - very nice. I thought that toolbox button (sorry, I know there is a proper name for it in the manual but it has a toolbox icon on it so that's what I'm calling it for now...;) would throw me out of the program editor - but it doesn't, which is great.

                        
Re: Latest HP Prime "emulator" software available :)
Message #21 Posted by Tim Wessman on 7 Aug 2013, 11:18 p.m.,
in response to message #20 by Andy B (Australia)

Inside a progam editor, press MENU (the button to the left of CAS and right of the arrows). That is where it is. Location for additional useful things, expansion, and future user customization.

I think "toolbox" might be the official name...

TW

                              
Re: Latest HP Prime "emulator" software available :)
Message #22 Posted by Andy B (Australia) on 7 Aug 2013, 11:53 p.m.,
in response to message #21 by Tim Wessman

Quote:
Inside a progam editor, press MENU (the button to the left of CAS and right of the arrows). That is where it is. Location for additional useful things, expansion, and future user customization.

Ok found it - thanks. And its nice you can keep key assignments in with the program definition rather than creating separate programs for each assignment (which will also work).

And re the custom key situation and how to consume parameters off the stack in textbook mode. Playing with it some more, its actually not so bad. I can get the template of my function call inserted by hitting the custom key, then double tap the value from the stack that I want to insert, then hit Enter.

And if my program takes two parameters, hit the custom key to get fred(), double tap a stack value, type comma, double tap another stack value, Enter. Voila.

And of course you can call multiple functions using this technique e.g. fred(2)+fred(3)+sin(2) Enter, which is very powerful.

                              
Re: Latest HP Prime "emulator" software available :)
Message #23 Posted by Pal G. on 8 Aug 2013, 12:31 p.m.,
in response to message #21 by Tim Wessman

TW,

Can you update the Prime so that if a user selects a different "Color Theme" it also changes the main title bar color? The blue bar at the top of the screen reminds me of Windows 3.1, which quite frankly is 'dated'.

                                    
Re: Latest HP Prime "emulator" software available :)
Message #24 Posted by Tim Wessman on 8 Aug 2013, 1:30 p.m.,
in response to message #23 by Pal G.

The issue is the indicators on the bar. There are 7 indicators, a clock, and a battery icon. It is next to impossible to do so without messing up the ability to see those in one way or another. In order to do so, it would have to change quite a bit more (layout, segmentation, etc) in order to actually work well. I'm sure we'll do more up there at some point, but I feel ok with it for a first release.

The funny thing is, windows 8 is basically windows 3.1 but with CAPS on everything... :-)

TW

Edited: 8 Aug 2013, 1:31 p.m.

                                          
Re: Latest HP Prime "emulator" software available :)
Message #25 Posted by Pal G. on 8 Aug 2013, 3:29 p.m.,
in response to message #24 by Tim Wessman

Fair enough. Thank you for the reply.

PG

      
(deleted post)
Message #26 Posted by deleted on 9 Aug 2013, 10:07 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Adrien Bertrand

This Message was deleted. This empty message preserves the threading when a post with followup(s) is deleted. If all followups have been removed, the original poster may delete this post again to make this placeholder disappear.

            
Re: Latest HP Prime "emulator" software available :)
Message #27 Posted by Tim Wessman on 9 Aug 2013, 11:55 p.m.,
in response to message #26 by deleted

You monster! :-D

TW

                  
Re: Latest HP Prime "emulator" software available :)
Message #28 Posted by Patrice on 10 Aug 2013, 10:27 a.m.,
in response to message #27 by Tim Wessman

Agreed :)

Jep should learn basic maths really.

It is so nice to see someone give the stick to be beaten with.

            
Re: Latest HP Prime "emulator" software available :)
Message #29 Posted by Gerson W. Barbosa on 10 Aug 2013, 12:15 a.m.,
in response to message #26 by deleted

Quote:
the emulator will just stir-up th PEMDAS stuff as it gives the proper answer of 6/2(1+2)=1 in both Texbook and Algebraic mode. It knows about the implied multiply!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Am I missing something here???

                  
Re: Latest HP Prime "emulator" software available :)
Message #30 Posted by fhub on 10 Aug 2013, 3:44 a.m.,
in response to message #29 by Gerson W. Barbosa

Quote:
Am I missing something here???
Yes, you're missing that jep2276 has no clue about anything at all - his statement about the ALG mode is simply wrong, and for Textbook mode he doesn't see that it's just a thing of how you enter the expression.

People like jep2276 should not be allowed at all to use such a powerful calculator, he should better use a Gameboy! ;-)

Franz

                        
(deleted post)
Message #31 Posted by deleted on 10 Aug 2013, 8:43 a.m.,
in response to message #30 by fhub

This Message was deleted. This empty message preserves the threading when a post with followup(s) is deleted. If all followups have been removed, the original poster may delete this post again to make this placeholder disappear.

                              
Re: Latest HP Prime "emulator" software available :)
Message #32 Posted by fhub on 10 Aug 2013, 8:58 a.m.,
in response to message #31 by deleted

Quote:
But, textbook mode was developed to solve the expression using standard math without input from the user. It is the default.

The other modes are used to evaluate expressions with USER intervention, e.g. change standard order of evaluation, with the assumption that the user wants that control. So, in the end, Franz is wrong again.

Oh my god, you're such an idiot!

'Standard math without input from the user'???

Well, then try to calculate 

12
-- + 1
3
by simply entering 12/3+1 in Textbook mode 'without user input' (i.e. without explicitely leaving the denominator before entering +3), and you'll see what crap you will get. And the same wrong expression you get when you enter 6/2(1+2) without terminating the denominator before (1+2).

Not only your statement that 6/2(1+2) gives 1 in ALG mode is false (in fact the result is 9 as it should be) - also your statement "textbook mode was developed to solve the expression using standard math without input from the user" is false: it's just the opposite!
In ALG mode you can enter any expression without thinking about the math rules because ALG mode 'knows' the correct rules (contrary to you), but in Textbook mode YOU (the user) have to know e.g. where and when a denominator ends, and YOU must explicitely leave this denominator with ->.

But any discussion with a moron like you is useless ... :-(

Franz

Edited: 10 Aug 2013, 9:15 a.m.

                                    
(deleted post)
Message #33 Posted by deleted on 10 Aug 2013, 9:17 a.m.,
in response to message #32 by fhub

This Message was deleted. This empty message preserves the threading when a post with followup(s) is deleted. If all followups have been removed, the original poster may delete this post again to make this placeholder disappear.

                                          
Re: Latest HP Prime "emulator" software available :)
Message #34 Posted by fhub on 10 Aug 2013, 9:22 a.m.,
in response to message #33 by deleted

Quote:
Just keep dreaming ...
Well, everybody here can read and see WHO is dreaming.
Quote:
someday you will understand.
Yes, maybe when the hell is freezing.

Franz

                                                
(deleted post)
Message #35 Posted by deleted on 10 Aug 2013, 9:29 a.m.,
in response to message #34 by fhub

This Message was deleted. This empty message preserves the threading when a post with followup(s) is deleted. If all followups have been removed, the original poster may delete this post again to make this placeholder disappear.

                                                      
Folks!
Message #36 Posted by Walter B on 10 Aug 2013, 9:53 a.m.,
in response to message #35 by deleted

Once upon a time we had a decent forum :-)

Then we had a decent forum with an Austrian :-/ but most of us knew how to take him ;-)

Now we have a forum with an Austrian and a jep and discussions are leaving decency :-(

I'd appreciate if we could return to a decent forum.

d:-)

                                                            
Re: Folks!
Message #37 Posted by Kimberly Thompson on 10 Aug 2013, 10:01 a.m.,
in response to message #36 by Walter B

A M E N !

SlideRule

                                                            
(deleted post)
Message #38 Posted by deleted on 10 Aug 2013, 10:10 a.m.,
in response to message #36 by Walter B

This Message was deleted. This empty message preserves the threading when a post with followup(s) is deleted. If all followups have been removed, the original poster may delete this post again to make this placeholder disappear.

                                                                  
Re: Folks!
Message #39 Posted by Patrice on 10 Aug 2013, 10:32 a.m.,
in response to message #38 by deleted

Quote:
OK. No excuse and I will put my nose on the blackboard ...
No excuse needed, it is so fun to see someone put himself in shit and get deeper with every reply.
                                                            
Re: Folks!
Message #40 Posted by fhub on 10 Aug 2013, 10:44 a.m.,
in response to message #36 by Walter B

Quote:
I'd appreciate if we could return to a decent forum.
That would be quite easy:
Just make an entrance examination for the forum, and one only becomes a member here if his IQ is at least 50 - that would avoid having to read ongoing nonsense here!

And especially for Walter:
No need to speculate about my IQ (because of being an Austrian) - it was over 140 the last time I've made a test. ;-)

Franz

      
Re: Latest HP Prime "emulator" software available :)
Message #41 Posted by aurelio on 12 Aug 2013, 12:55 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Adrien Bertrand

Thank-you, Adrien! Just I would like to ask you if you have installed the latest version as an "upgrade" of the previous, or if it is better to remove first the existing one. Merci

Edited: 12 Aug 2013, 12:55 p.m.

            
Re: Latest HP Prime "emulator" software available :)
Message #42 Posted by Adrien Bertrand on 12 Aug 2013, 3:49 p.m.,
in response to message #41 by aurelio

I personally installed it over an older version, but other people did a fresh install with no problem.

                  
Re: Latest HP Prime "emulator" software available :)
Message #43 Posted by aurelio on 12 Aug 2013, 4:22 p.m.,
in response to message #42 by Adrien Bertrand

Thank-you, I've installed it like a new program

      
Re: Latest HP Prime "emulator" software available :)
Message #44 Posted by BruceTTT on 16 Aug 2013, 4:23 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Adrien Bertrand

The new emulator crashes and restarts when I try to Shift-Home or access the settings under the Home button. Any suggestions? Uninstalling and reinstalling the app does not help. I even tried deleting the regkeys that I could find.

            
Re: Latest HP Prime "emulator" software available :)
Message #45 Posted by CompSystems on 17 Aug 2013, 11:50 a.m.,
in response to message #44 by BruceTTT

new version =)

http://tiplanet.org/forum/archives_voir.php?id=19606

Edited: 17 Aug 2013, 11:50 a.m.

                  
Re: Latest HP Prime "emulator" software available :)
Message #46 Posted by BruceTTT on 21 Aug 2013, 5:45 p.m.,
in response to message #45 by CompSystems

Still doesn't work. Where are the Home settings stored on the PC do I can delete them? They might be corrupt.

                        
Re: Latest HP Prime "emulator" software available :)
Message #47 Posted by Joe Horn on 21 Aug 2013, 10:48 p.m.,
in response to message #46 by BruceTTT

Quote:
Where are the Home settings stored on the PC so I can delete them? They might be corrupt.
%appdata%\HP_Prime

If you run multiple instances of the emulator, they each get their own folder named HP_Prime, HP_Prime_1, HP_Prime_2, etc., so that you can shut them all down then return to them later simply by running multiple instances again. Nice.

I'm not sure how much of that folder is reset by performing a "Calculator Reset" from the Windows menu of the emulator.

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