HP Forum Archive 20

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Scientific version of 30b by HP? Message #1 Posted by kc on 13 Feb 2012, 12:24 a.m. Well, I'm not talking about WP34S. WP34S is really great, but what if I'm too lazy to do all the cumbersome works of flashing and labelling? People in this forum are highly demanding towards quality of HP calculators, and yet, the 30b seems to be generally regarded by the forum members as a quality product. I don't have a 30b, but AFAIK, it alreay contains common scientific functions, just buried somewhere inside menus. Therefore, I think it wouldn't be too difficult for HP to remap the keys to produce a scientific version of it. Or is HP already doing that? Or better still, it would be really nice if HP would buy the invention of WP34S and produce a version of it :)

Re: Scientific version of 30b by HP? Message #2 Posted by Paul Dale on 13 Feb 2012, 12:34 a.m., in response to message #1 by kc You can buy a pre-flashed 34S plus overlay. Well not at the moment, buy I'm sure it will be available again soon. HP wasn't interested in the 34S firmware when I offered it to them. We've come a long way since then, but I suspect this hasn't changed. I've no idea what kind of scientific calculator, if any, they are working on. - Pauli

Re: Scientific version of 30b by HP? Message #3 Posted by Reth on 13 Feb 2012, 2:32 a.m., in response to message #2 by Paul Dale Quote: You can buy a pre-flashed 34S plus overlay. - Pauli Add the cable to that and you'll sell alot more of them. I'd buy one to support the project. Cheers,

Re: Scientific version of 30b by HP? Message #4 Posted by From Hong Kong on 13 Feb 2012, 3:58 a.m., in response to message #2 by Paul Dale Quote: HP wasn't interested in the 34S firmware when I offered it to them. We've come a long way since then, but I suspect this hasn't changed. The reason behind is that HP doesn't want to pay even though HP is interested in your product. That's why HP's new breed of calculators have got a lot of H/W or S/W problems! HP is a miser!!!

Re: Scientific version of 30b by HP? Message #5 Posted by Paul Dale on 13 Feb 2012, 5:07 a.m., in response to message #4 by From Hong Kong I very much doubt this was the reason. In fact, I'm certain it isn't. We didn't ask for money, the project is open source and hence freely available anyway. We can and would license it under alternative terms if asked -- this has been done for the power saving code e.g. (main.c from memory). The reasons given at the time I asked were: no scientific calculator was on the immediate road map and that the software would need to be re-written to use HP's internal mathematics library. The former clearly changed with the 15C LE, the latter is likely still a concern. - Pauli

Re: Scientific version of 30b by HP? Message #6 Posted by Mark Storkamp on 13 Feb 2012, 9:26 a.m., in response to message #5 by Paul Dale Quote: the software would need to be re-written to use HP's internal mathematics library. You mean the library that says log(10^20)=14? (as on the 20b) That's a good plan.

Re: Scientific version of 30b by HP? Message #7 Posted by Tim Wessman on 13 Feb 2012, 10:38 a.m., in response to message #6 by Mark Storkamp Strange, currently returns 20 and has for several years now. . . TW <edited since I read a 14^20 for some reason> Edited: 13 Feb 2012, 11:16 a.m. after one or more responses were posted

Re: Scientific version of 30b by HP? Message #8 Posted by peacecalc on 13 Feb 2012, 11:05 a.m., in response to message #7 by Tim Wessman Hello Tim, hello Mark, I don't get the joke???? Which bases you use for the log? @Mark: 26.5? @Tim: 7.5 Sincerely peacecalc

Re: Scientific version of 30b by HP? Message #9 Posted by Walter B on 13 Feb 2012, 12:05 p.m., in response to message #8 by peacecalc I prefer base 27 for Mark's solution :-)

Re: Scientific version of 30b by HP? Message #10 Posted by Michael de Estrada on 13 Feb 2012, 11:14 a.m., in response to message #7 by Tim Wessman I get 21 on my Sinclair Scientific and Elektronika B3-19M. Edited: 13 Feb 2012, 11:22 a.m.

Re: Scientific version of 30b by HP? Message #11 Posted by Bart (UK) on 13 Feb 2012, 5:21 p.m., in response to message #10 by Michael de Estrada Quote: I get 21 on my Sinclair Scientific and Elektronika B3-19M. That could happen if you used 10E20 (or 10x on some calculators, although the B3-19M only seems to have Yx). Edit: assuming base 10 for the log. Edited: 13 Feb 2012, 5:31 p.m.

Re: Scientific version of 30b by HP? Message #12 Posted by Mark Storkamp on 13 Feb 2012, 3:18 p.m., in response to message #7 by Tim Wessman Quote: Strange, currently returns 20 and has for several years now. . . TW <edited since I read a 14^20 for some reason> Doesn't help those who in effect are doing the beta testing for HP by buying something before it's been rev'ed once or twice.

Re: Scientific version of 30b by HP? Message #13 Posted by Michael de Estrada on 13 Feb 2012, 3:27 p.m., in response to message #7 by Tim Wessman So now you are getting log(10^20) = 20 ? Interesting.

Re: Scientific version of 30b by HP? Message #14 Posted by Bart (UK) on 13 Feb 2012, 5:22 p.m., in response to message #13 by Michael de Estrada Quote: So now you are getting log(10^20) = 20 ? Interesting. Why "Interesting"? That would be the correct answer. Edit: assuming base 10 for the log. Edited: 13 Feb 2012, 5:28 p.m.

Re: Scientific version of 30b by HP? Message #15 Posted by Thomas Chrapkiewicz on 13 Feb 2012, 1:41 p.m., in response to message #2 by Paul Dale Is there a supplier of flashed 30b/20b units in the USA? TomC

Re: Scientific version of 30b by HP? Message #16 Posted by Eric Rechlin on 13 Feb 2012, 2:40 p.m., in response to message #15 by Thomas Chrapkiewicz I plan to provide them in the near future. Actually I'll do it now if anyone wants, but I plan to make it an official listing on my site soon. Probably by the end of the month. Eric

Re: Scientific version of 30b by HP? Message #17 Posted by Kerem Kapkin (Silicon Valley, CA) on 13 Feb 2012, 3:06 p.m., in response to message #16 by Eric Rechlin Eric, are you also considering with or without crystal upgrades, or by default all WP-34s' get the crystal upgrades. I think having the upgrade by default is a better choice.

Re: Scientific version of 30b by HP? Message #18 Posted by Eric Rechlin on 13 Feb 2012, 5:11 p.m., in response to message #17 by Kerem Kapkin (Silicon Valley, CA) I haven't decided, but I am strongly leaning towards having it be a full-service thing. Ideally it would be a 30b, with the overlay preinstalled, the crystal preinstalled, the latest 3.0 build flashed (or perhaps the last-known-stable build, but I don't know how to determine that), and maybe a printed manual (but as long as it still says "DRAFT" in the watermark I won't bother printing it, and I personally don't think the manual is suitable for printing anyway). Eric

Re: Scientific version of 30b by HP? Message #19 Posted by Paul Dale on 13 Feb 2012, 5:24 p.m., in response to message #18 by Eric Rechlin Quote: (or perhaps the last-known-stable build, but I don't know how to determine that) Version 2.2 would be this. Version 3 will get there, probably fairly quickly though. We've no current plans for major or significant changes after version 3. We've taken the hardware about as far as we can and a lot further than any of us thought possible at the outset. - Pauli

Re: Scientific version of 30b by HP? Message #20 Posted by Jeff O. on 13 Feb 2012, 8:08 p.m., in response to message #19 by Paul Dale Drat, I was hoping for at least a v3.5 with a "proper" complex mode per Marcus' proposal. (message no. 14) Edited: 13 Feb 2012, 8:36 p.m.

Re: Scientific version of 30b by HP? Message #21 Posted by Paul Dale on 14 Feb 2012, 12:02 a.m., in response to message #20 by Jeff O. I'm pretty sure that proper complex support like the 42s is what we'll aim for rather than the 15c's relatively poor substitute. It won't, however, be in the 30b body. We'll be using something more capable: DIY RPN 5, OpenRPN, the 15CC or something entirely different. We simply don't know at the moment. - Pauli

Re: Scientific version of 30b by HP? Message #22 Posted by Jeff O. on 14 Feb 2012, 10:19 a.m., in response to message #21 by Paul Dale Agreed that proper complex support is as on the 42S, with a display that can show real and imaginary or magnitude and angle at the same time. However, I feel that a 15C-style implementation in a device that cannot display both parts (i.e., the 30b) would be preferable to the current wp34s paradigm. But I can see that you would not want to spend any time developing such a paradigm for wp34s if better hardware that will allow the preferred implementation is expected to arrive.

Re: Scientific version of 30b by HP? Message #23 Posted by David Griffith on 13 Feb 2012, 12:34 p.m., in response to message #1 by kc As others have stated, you can buy a pre-flashed WP34s. The unavoidable problem with the WP34s is that its hardware is fairly anemic and the display is not optimal. What really needs to happen is for HP to commission the WP34s team to decide what the hardware should be like and have them make the firmware. The last time HP tried to make an RPN calculator of that kind, they came out with the HP35s, which falls flat in several important areas.

Re: Scientific version of 30b by HP? Message #24 Posted by Jake Schwartz on 13 Feb 2012, 5:03 p.m., in response to message #23 by David Griffith Quote: What really needs to happen is for HP to commission the WP34s team to decide what the hardware should be like and have them make the firmware. Even if the 17BII+ screen was available, I feel that the 34S could be significantly more powerful than it is now. Imagine substituting soft-key menus in place of that keystroke-crazy catalog system....I guess it can't hurt to dream.... Jake

Re: Scientific version of 30b by HP? Message #25 Posted by Paul Dale on 13 Feb 2012, 5:22 p.m., in response to message #24 by Jake Schwartz I'm not sure I understand here. With the current screen a soft key setup just isn't viable. The dot matrix portion is simply too tight for this and seven segments don't work well. The CPU can't drive any more LCD segments so a screen upgrade isn't feasible either. As for more powerful, yet alone significantly more powerful, I'd like to know how so we can implement it :-) - Pauli

Re: Scientific version of 30b by HP? Message #26 Posted by David Griffith on 13 Feb 2012, 6:14 p.m., in response to message #25 by Paul Dale I'm talking about you working out what CPU and support chips to use in order to properly use a dot-matrix display and somehow getting HP to build that calculator. More memory would be good too.

Re: Scientific version of 30b by HP? Message #27 Posted by db (martinez, ca.) on 13 Feb 2012, 7:24 p.m., in response to message #26 by David Griffith David; Yes on both. The 34s is 99% "all it can be" on the hardware it is on now. The ability, and willingness, of the trinity to rewrite the firmware to fix each shortcoming has resulted in an OS that hp could only dream of.

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