HP Forum Archive 20

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DM-15CC launched Message #1 Posted by Andy Lamming (UK) on 6 Feb 2012, 2:14 p.m. I've just noticed that the DM 15CC has been launched, and orders are being taken. It'll be interesting to see what it is like in the flesh (of my palm!)

Re: DM-15CC launched Message #2 Posted by Cristian Arezzini on 6 Feb 2012, 4:03 p.m., in response to message #1 by Andy Lamming (UK) Sold out already?!? What. the. heck. Cristian

Re: DM-15CC launched Message #3 Posted by Neil Hamilton (Ottawa) on 6 Feb 2012, 4:10 p.m., in response to message #2 by Cristian Arezzini A slip of the mouse button ordered one for me. Oops! And it looks like that one got in ahead of the "sold out". Really looking forward to a 16c version!!

Re: DM-15CC launched Message #4 Posted by Massimo Gnerucci (Italy) on 6 Feb 2012, 4:11 p.m., in response to message #2 by Cristian Arezzini Yes... we were really fast! ;) Massimo

Re: DM-15CC launched Message #5 Posted by Paul Dale on 6 Feb 2012, 4:17 p.m., in response to message #1 by Andy Lamming (UK) Sigh, missed out :-( - Pauli

Re: DM-15CC launched Message #6 Posted by Massimo Gnerucci (Italy) on 6 Feb 2012, 4:18 p.m., in response to message #5 by Paul Dale Just a matter of a few weeks' wait... Edited: 6 Feb 2012, 4:19 p.m.

Re: DM-15CC launched Message #7 Posted by db (martinez, ca.) on 6 Feb 2012, 11:26 p.m., in response to message #5 by Paul Dale double "sigh" always the bridesmaid, never the bride.

Re: DM-15CC launched Message #8 Posted by gene wright on 7 Feb 2012, 8:00 a.m., in response to message #7 by db (martinez, ca.) db, you've wanted to be the bride? I don't recall you saying that at any HHC gatherings. ;-) lol

Re: DM-15CC launched Message #9 Posted by db (martinez, ca.) on 7 Feb 2012, 8:38 p.m., in response to message #8 by gene wright Quote: you've wanted to be the bride? "i now pronounce you RPN and nerd. you may kiss the calculator". just hope i get in on the second batch, and since one is never enough ,the 16 too.

Re: DM-15CC launched Message #10 Posted by gene wright on 7 Feb 2012, 8:46 p.m., in response to message #9 by db (martinez, ca.) Once you get one of each, come to HHC this September!

Re: DM-15CC launched Message #11 Posted by Eddie W. Shore on 8 Feb 2012, 10:11 p.m., in response to message #9 by db (martinez, ca.) Quote: "i now pronounce you RPN and nerd. you may kiss the calculator". just hope i get in on the second batch, and since one is never enough ,the 16 too. LOL. This would be a great idea for a picture.

Re: DM-15CC launched Message #12 Posted by db (martinez, ca.) on 8 Feb 2012, 11:14 p.m., in response to message #11 by Eddie W. Shore Quote: LOL. This would be a great idea for a picture. Is that a picture of me marring a calculator (RPN of course), or the polygamy angle of me marrying two of them?

Re: DM-15CC launched Message #13 Posted by Reth on 7 Feb 2012, 12:32 a.m., in response to message #5 by Paul Dale I got their email at 6:28 this morning and ordered one immediately A$66.66 with shipping. iPhone proved to be worth something ;)

Re: DM-15CC launched Message #14 Posted by bill platt on 6 Feb 2012, 8:11 p.m., in response to message #1 by Andy Lamming (UK) http://www.rpn-calc.ch/player.swf?file=sample.flv&autostart=true Edited: 6 Feb 2012, 8:11 p.m.

Re: DM-15CC launched Message #15 Posted by Mike T. on 7 Feb 2012, 6:24 p.m., in response to message #14 by bill platt Wow - Now that is cool, even the keyboard doesn't look too bad. Given that I know defiantly don't want to buy a buggy 15LE, this looks very interesting even if it isn't the 'real thing'... Mike T. PS - I Bet it doesn't have the PSE bug :-)

Re: DM-15CC launched Message #16 Posted by RedGlyph on 12 Feb 2012, 6:50 a.m., in response to message #15 by Mike T. The HP-15LE isn't buggy at all. Only time will tell how long the keyboard lasts, of course, and how often the batteries must be replaced, but I'm very pleased with that version even if I prefer the quality look and feel of the original HP-15C. The only feature that is not working is the original self-tests, which have been replaced by another test at the CPU level, for the display, the memory and the keyboard. It's true they didn't anticipate that though, the back of the calculator still mentions "Error 9" for the ON-x test, and the manual is a copy of the HP-15C one with both self-tests and no mention of the new test except on a separate errata sheet. It even comes with a printed manual, which is an exceptional move from HP these days! The printed manual is the Owner's Handbook, but you get a copy of the Advanced Function Handbook on the CD-ROM, along with a buggy software emulator for Windows that I discarded immediately (to think they actually sell those!). It all depends what you are looking for. If you actually want to use the calculator on a regular basis, the HP-15LE is perfect, and I wouldn't choose the HP-15CC for that purpose. If you are interested in HP calculators in general, the HP-15CC is an interesting piece... but then so is the HP-15LE. When available of course, I see that it is out of stock again on HP site, after a second batch last December.

Re: DM-15CC launched Message #17 Posted by Alexander Oestert on 12 Feb 2012, 7:06 a.m., in response to message #16 by RedGlyph Not buggy? Have you recently purchased a version with all the software bugs gone? That would be great news! Bug list 15c LE Edited: 12 Feb 2012, 7:09 a.m.

Re: DM-15CC launched Message #18 Posted by RedGlyph on 18 Feb 2012, 6:19 a.m., in response to message #17 by Alexander Oestert Thanks for the link, that's interesting to know :) I haven't checked them all, but those I did are on my version as expected, since I own a "first batch" version. Did HP fix that later on, we'll know if someone post it here but I doubt it. At least the first bug was already in the HP-15C, and neither of them is critical for the calculations, but some can be annoying (battery-related ones especially). That being said, those bugs are apparently on the 15CC as well... so while they could be more easily fixed on that version, I'd still rather use a reliable keyboard and comfortable display for everyday's use than the frail and awkward DM-15CC design (not a criticism - it's not intended to be a professional design).

Re: DM-15CC launched Message #19 Posted by Andrés C. Rodríguez (Argentina) on 18 Feb 2012, 9:19 a.m., in response to message #18 by RedGlyph Battery issues are quite important. PAUSE issue is annoying indeed, severely impairing programs. With a one-line, numeric display, PAUSE is one of the very few tools available for a user interface. And is irritating to see kow this product went into production with such a bug; as almost any simple program used as a test would have pointed straight at it. I hope HP will offer a software update somehow. For now, my HP-15L just rests on its beautiful box as a conversation piece. [Please note that I call it "15L" because the battery issues prevent it to deserve the "continuous memory" badge. It certainly deserves the "limited" part of the "limited edition" string].

Re: DM-15CC launched Message #20 Posted by Alexander Oestert on 18 Feb 2012, 10:19 a.m., in response to message #18 by RedGlyph Quote: At least the first bug was already in the HP-15C, The first on the list is the PSE bug which definitely is not in the original 15c. Quote: That being said, those bugs are apparently on the 15CC as well... No, I don't think so. Which bugs have you found in the DM-15CC?

Re: DM-15CC launched Message #21 Posted by From Hong Kong on 7 Feb 2012, 1:07 a.m., in response to message #1 by Andy Lamming (UK) I'm a bit disappointed in the speed and battery. I don't mind having a double speed with two CR2032 batteries. Anyway, I'll buy two for sure. I also look forward to a full report from its owners.

Re: DM-15CC launched Message #22 Posted by Matthias Wehrli on 7 Feb 2012, 1:40 p.m., in response to message #1 by Andy Lamming (UK) Wow, within 24h the units are all sold out. Thats quiet better than HP itself ;)

Re: DM-15CC launched Message #23 Posted by Geoff Quickfall on 7 Feb 2012, 1:47 p.m., in response to message #22 by Matthias Wehrli Go to the site. Only 50 units available as the CPU was not working on the rest. /:-( New units in two to three weeks /;-)

Re: DM-15CC launched Message #24 Posted by Paul Dale on 7 Feb 2012, 4:47 p.m., in response to message #22 by Matthias Wehrli More likely within two hours they were all sold. - Pauli

Re: DM-15CC launched Message #25 Posted by Geoff Quickfall on 7 Feb 2012, 4:59 p.m., in response to message #24 by Paul Dale From my email to my failed purchase attempt, 20 minutes!!!!!!! d:-( Geoff

Re: DM-15CC launched Message #26 Posted by gene wright on 7 Feb 2012, 5:14 p.m., in response to message #25 by Geoff Quickfall Nice hat, Geoff. Woudln't want you getting sunburned up north.

Re: DM-15CC launched Message #27 Posted by Geoff Quickfall on 7 Feb 2012, 5:42 p.m., in response to message #26 by gene wright It keeps my hair on the scalp, not too successful though!

Re: DM-15CC launched Message #28 Posted by Egan Ford on 7 Feb 2012, 2:56 p.m., in response to message #1 by Andy Lamming (UK) Awesome. I cannot wait to get both the 15 and 16. My only concern from the video is that it looked like it takes a bit of effort to press a key.

Re: DM-15CC launched Message #29 Posted by Bruce Bergman on 7 Feb 2012, 10:27 p.m., in response to message #28 by Egan Ford I noticed the same thing. It looks like he is really pressing hard to get some of those keys to register. Not sure if that's just big thumbs, or poor keyboard...

Re: DM-15CC launched Message #30 Posted by Michael de Estrada on 7 Feb 2012, 10:42 p.m., in response to message #29 by Bruce Bergman Not big thumbs, but really tiny keyboard. Trying to cram a 4 row x 10 column keyboard into that footprint makes it impractical.

Re: DM-15CC launched Message #31 Posted by bill platt on 8 Feb 2012, 1:19 p.m., in response to message #30 by Michael de Estrada You use a Dixon Ticonderoga or a Venus Velvet eraser to push the keys :-)

Re: DM-15CC launched Message #32 Posted by Juergen Keller on 8 Feb 2012, 1:31 p.m., in response to message #28 by Egan Ford I've got one from the sample batch a few weeks ago but unfortunately didn't had much time to use it. My first impressions were: * you have to get used to the form factor; I hold it with both hands and use my thumbs to press the keys; works quite well * it's really small and fits into every pocket; there is no excuse anymore to not have a calculator at your fingertips * the keys need strong pressure; however, I've got a message from the manufacturer that this will change in the production run units * the keys do not always register even if you hear the click * the display contrast is low; you need good light to read it comfortably * it is pleasingly fast; sorry, didn't had time to run comparisons yet * works as the original 15C, including self-tests; no PSE bug :-) * fair pricing (considering the small production run) * it looks sweet (the baby factor) * the sandwich construction provides no good protection against dust sneaking into the display

Re: DM-15CC launched Message #33 Posted by RedGlyph on 12 Feb 2012, 6:09 a.m., in response to message #32 by Juergen Keller I have received a production unit on Friday, so here are my first impressions. Admittedly the size makes it more difficult to punch the keys than a full-sized calculator, but the idea was to build a small calculator from the start. For me the size of the keyboard doesn't make it difficult to use the calculator though, I think it has the right dimensions to be both small and not too small as to be impractical - key spacing makes it more comfortable than a BlackBerry for example. However, I confirm the keys are hard to press and don't always register, which makes this calculator a bit awkward to use. Add to that a curved surface due to too few screws (four, one in each corner) that makes the calculator bend and sometimes produce a little crushing sound when you press some of the keys, and you get a general impression of something that will not last and is not so pleasant to manipulate. It is faster than the original HP-15C, although not as fast as the HP-15LE. For example, integration of sin^2(x) from 0 to 45 degrees takes about 30 seconds on an HP-15C, about 5 seconds on the HP-15CC, and less than one second on the HP-15LE. I'd say it more than enough for a calculator. EDIT: A simple loop with 2000 iterations (LBL A, 1 STO- 0, RCL 0, TEST 1, GTO A) takes 19'27" on HP-15C 6" on HP-15LE, about 194 times faster 2'12" on HP-15CC, about 8.8 times faster. Some complex operations may be faster though. The ON-x self-test works, the ON-/ one doesn't, however. It displays the first symbols on the screen but pressing any key doesn't make it progress. The only way out is pressing the ON key which produces an "Error 9". Not a big deal I suppose, and it doesn't work on the HP-15LE either, but I think this calculator should have a keyboard test at some point, given this is a weak point of the design. Unfortunately I could not test the mini-USB connection because I don't have a compatible cable, it looks like a mini-B type like those used on the Motorola smartphone. Not the most common type... The display is fine, the large numbers are visible enough. While it doesn't offer the same contrast ratio as an original or an LE model, it shouldn't cause any problem in normal conditions. My display was slightly scratched when I received the calculator, it looks like it's prone to being scratched if not taken care of, for instance if stored in a bag without protection. I suppose the units were stacked together after production, that's when it must have happened. The calculator comes with a protection sleeve that can be seen on the site photos. What is not rendered is its nasty synthetic smell though ;-) It tends to pervade quite a bit. So in conclusion, this is an interesting gadget for HP-15 enthusiasts, but definitely not something you want to use on a daily basis, or if you must depend on it for an exam or in the field. It could use a better keyboard design, and a more robust case, I expect either to be the weakest feature and to break down first. But you have to look at this as a DIY-grade design, and as such this isn't bad at all! Edited: 12 Feb 2012, 7:26 a.m.

Re: DM-15CC launched Message #34 Posted by Eric Rechlin on 12 Feb 2012, 9:03 a.m., in response to message #33 by RedGlyph Mini-USB is deprecated and I agree it should not have been used (modern devices should use Micro-USB instead), but it's still fairly common. All the recent HP graphing calculators prior to the 39gII still use it, and I have countless devices at home that use it (my old HTC phone, Sony Reader, portable hard drive, memory card reader, GPS, etc). Eric

Re: DM-15CC launched Message #35 Posted by RedGlyph on 12 Feb 2012, 12:54 p.m., in response to message #33 by RedGlyph Finally got a compatible cable from an old Lacie HD drive. But unfortunately, I couldn't establish any connection, neither with FlashMagic, nor with Putty. There isn't much information to start with, so it could be that (which interface to use, what subtype of LPC1114 CPU), it could also be the USB - RS232 known for being capricious, or a missing driver...

Re: DM-15CC launched Message #36 Posted by Massimo Gnerucci (Italy) on 13 Feb 2012, 3:30 p.m., in response to message #33 by RedGlyph Just got my two DM-15CC. Funny how they sit in the palm of your hand! Yes, keys do not always register even if you feel the dome "snap" but, all in all, it's a good compromise. Quite fast relative to the original but obviously not on a par with a 15C LE. I tried a quick and dirty benchmark (please forgive any inconsistencies/errors due to me not being proficient with the voyagers). LBL A SIGMA+ SIN COS TAN GTO A RTN I let them go for 60" and found the following: HP 15C 22 iterations HP 15C LE 2118 iterations DM-15CC 140 iterations Here's a family photo! :) Massimo

Re: DM-15CC launched Message #37 Posted by Michael de Estrada on 13 Feb 2012, 3:34 p.m., in response to message #36 by Massimo Gnerucci (Italy) You've got the commas and periods reversed. ;)

Re: DM-15CC launched Message #38 Posted by Marcus von Cube, Germany on 13 Feb 2012, 4:08 p.m., in response to message #37 by Michael de Estrada They are perfectly right. ;-)

Re: DM-15CC launched Message #39 Posted by Massimo Gnerucci (Italy) on 13 Feb 2012, 4:24 p.m., in response to message #37 by Michael de Estrada Quote: You've got the commas and periods reversed. ;) First things first! ;) And... DECIMAL-POINT IS COMMA. Massimo

Re: DM-15CC launched Message #40 Posted by Gerson W. Barbosa on 13 Feb 2012, 11:16 p.m., in response to message #39 by Massimo Gnerucci (Italy) Quote: And... DECIMAL-POINT IS COMMA. That's the only thing I liked in COBOL. In my MSX computer I transferred the ROM to RAM using a program that came in the manual and made some experiments. After some trial and error I found which bytes had to be changed so that everything looked normal also in BASIC :-) Gerson. Edited: 13 Feb 2012, 11:20 p.m.

Re: DM-15CC launched Message #41 Posted by Jim Horn on 13 Feb 2012, 7:55 p.m., in response to message #36 by Massimo Gnerucci (Italy) Thank you, Massimo, for the picture and results! And it does indeed appear to be a family portrait, showing what comes when two 15Cs get together...

Re: DM-15CC launched Message #42 Posted by Dave Shaffer (Arizona) on 13 Feb 2012, 8:53 p.m., in response to message #41 by Jim Horn So THAT's how we get new calculators!

Re: DM-15CC launched Message #43 Posted by Massimo Gnerucci (Italy) on 14 Feb 2012, 4:28 a.m., in response to message #42 by Dave Shaffer (Arizona) Quote: So THAT's how we get new calculators! And Happy Valentine's day, everybody... ;)

Re: DM-15CC launched Message #44 Posted by Massimo Gnerucci (Italy) on 14 Feb 2012, 4:23 a.m., in response to message #41 by Jim Horn Quote: And it does indeed appear to be a family portrait, showing what comes when two 15Cs get together... Ahahahah :D ROFL

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