HP Forum Archive 20

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WP 34S version 2.3 (corrected) Message #1 Posted by Eddie W. Shore on 6 Dec 2011, 11:01 p.m. Finally, I get to dive (even if it is for a little bit) to the newest firmware of the WP 34S (build 1984-Who ya gonna call?). Hopefully new overlays will be available soon. Edited: 7 Dec 2011, 12:36 a.m. after one or more responses were posted

Re: WP 34S version 3 Message #2 Posted by Namir on 7 Dec 2011, 12:03 a.m., in response to message #1 by Eddie W. Shore URL for downloading version 3? The URL I have from Max still points to version 2.3. Namir Edited: 7 Dec 2011, 12:21 a.m.

Re: WP 34S version 3 Message #3 Posted by Eddie W. Shore on 7 Dec 2011, 12:36 a.m., in response to message #2 by Namir Build Page Version 34S 2.3 1984 (Maybe the manual is version 3 and the software is 2.3 ) Sorry if I got the version numbers wrong. :( Edited: 7 Dec 2011, 12:37 a.m.

Re: WP 34S version 3 Message #4 Posted by Namir on 7 Dec 2011, 1:12 a.m., in response to message #3 by Eddie W. Shore Ok Thanks! I already have access to these pages. I am focusing on the emulator for now, since I am away from home. Namir

Re: WP 34S version 3 Message #5 Posted by Walter B on 7 Dec 2011, 1:25 a.m., in response to message #3 by Eddie W. Shore Quote: Maybe the manual is version 3 and the software is 2.3 Please allow me qoting the very last sentence of the v3 manual, printed bold red there almost since the beginning of v3: Quote: WARNING: This is just a working document to support discussion of new features. Many of them may be found in the emulator v2.3 in parallel.

Re: WP 34S version 2.3 (corrected) Message #6 Posted by Walter B on 7 Dec 2011, 1:53 a.m., in response to message #1 by Eddie W. Shore Quote: Hopefully new overlays will be available soon. Some minor modification is in discussion right now.

WP 34S keyboard update Message #7 Posted by Walter B on 8 Dec 2011, 1:18 a.m., in response to message #6 by Walter B Now the modification can be seen in Sourceforge. Manual and overlay files are updated but the software isn't yet - will follow soon. No guarantee for this being the final one. Probability rises, however :-) Enjoy, Walter

Re: WP 34S keyboard update Message #8 Posted by fhub on 8 Dec 2011, 5:22 a.m., in response to message #7 by Walter B Quote: Now the modification can be seen in Sourceforge. Manual and overlay files are updated but the software isn't yet - will follow soon. No guarantee for this being the final one. Probability rises, however :-) Not a good idea IMO to remove CLalpha from the keyboard and replace it by CLP. :-( How often will you need a CLP compared with a CLalpha? But if you really keep this 'improvement' (?), then it would be a good idea if CLalpha would still be available as [h]CLx at least when being in alpha-mode! Franz

Re: WP 34S keyboard update Message #9 Posted by Dominic Richens on 8 Dec 2011, 6:53 a.m., in response to message #8 by fhub Quote: Not a good idea IMO to remove CLalpha from the keyboard and replace it by CLP. :-( How often will you need a CLP compared with a CLalpha? Yeah, I was a bit puzzled by that too. I have to use CLalpha before pretty much every alpha command when programming. CLP is something that can be in a catalog somewhere.

Re: WP 34S keyboard update Message #10 Posted by Marcus von Cube, Germany on 8 Dec 2011, 9:24 a.m., in response to message #8 by fhub In alpha mode you get CLalpha from the same key.

Re: WP 34S keyboard update Message #11 Posted by Dominic Richens on 8 Dec 2011, 9:50 a.m., in response to message #10 by Marcus von Cube, Germany Quote: In alpha mode you get CLalpha from the same key. Oh, very nice! Good idea.

Re: WP 34S keyboard update Message #12 Posted by Marcus von Cube, Germany on 8 Dec 2011, 10:38 a.m., in response to message #11 by Dominic Richens I mean "You get CLalpha from the CLx key" of course.

Re: WP 34S keyboard update Message #13 Posted by Jeff O. on 8 Dec 2011, 10:49 a.m., in response to message #12 by Marcus von Cube, Germany What about in program mode? In my mind, that is where CLalpha gets repeated use as mentioned by Dominic previously. Must you first enter alpha mode (by pressing f ENTER) before entering CLalpha by pressing h <-? My guess is yes, since Clx is also needed frequently. Four keystrokes to enter this command may prove to be an inconvenience to some users.

Re: WP 34S keyboard update Message #14 Posted by Marcus von Cube, Germany on 8 Dec 2011, 11:02 a.m., in response to message #13 by Jeff O. Jeff, you will typically do CLalpha just prior to entering some alpha text, so you need to go to alpha mode only once. All the alpha commands are only available from within alpha mode, so this is consistent behavior.

Re: WP 34S keyboard update Message #15 Posted by Jeff O. on 8 Dec 2011, 12:59 p.m., in response to message #14 by Marcus von Cube, Germany Yes, I suppose that the majority of the time, a CLalpha will be followed by alpha entry. If not, well, it's just two extra keystrokes. Wait, I think it will be three extra, since you must press ENTER to end alpha mode, but no matter, it will probably not wear out my fingers.

Re: WP 34S keyboard update Message #16 Posted by Dominic Richens on 8 Dec 2011, 1:38 p.m., in response to message #15 by Jeff O. Unless I'm mistaken, CLalpha is only really needed in program mode. It's the same number of keystrokes - you just go into alpha mode to do CLalpha rather than immediately after. When you go to enter your alpha, you are already in alpha mode. Try it out rev 2000 of wp34sgui.exe

Re: WP 34S keyboard update Message #17 Posted by Paul Dale on 8 Dec 2011, 5:59 p.m., in response to message #16 by Dominic Richens Quote: Unless I'm mistaken, CLalpha is only really needed in program mode. All alpha commands are really only useful in program mode. - Pauli

Re: WP 34S keyboard update Message #18 Posted by Jeff O. on 10 Dec 2011, 1:17 p.m., in response to message #17 by Paul Dale I agree that CLalpha is primarily useful in program mode, and that most of the time, it will be executed immediately prior to entering alpha data, so there will not be any extra keystrokes needed. My point is that on the occasion (see below for example) that a CLalpha is used in a program and not immediately followed by alpha entry, it will take three extra keystrokes as compared to v2.2 build 1950. // Program Listing 001 LBL'Day' 002 FILL 003 EEX 004 2 005 / 006 IP 007 +/- 008 RCL L 009 4 010 / 011 IP 012 + 013 x[<->] Y 014 4 015 / 016 IP 017 + 018 + 019 2 020 + 021 7 022 RMDR 023 CL[alpha] //Clear alpha not followed by alpha entry 024 x=0? 025 SKIP 20 026 1 027 x=? Y 028 SKIP 19 029 INC X 030 x=? Y 031 SKIP 18 032 INC X 033 x=? Y 034 SKIP 18 035 INC X 036 x=? Y 037 SKIP 18 038 INC X 039 x=? Y 040 SKIP 18 041 [alpha]'Sat' 042 [alpha]'ur' 043 DROP 044 [alpha]'day' 045 PROMPT 046 [alpha]'Sun' 047 BACK 3 048 [alpha]'Mon' 049 BACK 6 050 [alpha]'Tue' 051 [alpha] s 052 BACK 9 053 [alpha]'Wed' 054 [alpha]'nes' 055 BACK 12 056 [alpha]'Thu' 057 [alpha]'rs' 058 BACK 15 059 [alpha]'Fri' 060 BACK 17 //

Re: WP 34S keyboard update Message #19 Posted by Walter B on 10 Dec 2011, 1:45 p.m., in response to message #18 by Jeff O. I'd put CLalpha in P.FCN additionally, so it can be accessed always :-) EDIT: It's in now :-) Edited: 10 Dec 2011, 6:57 p.m.

Re: WP 34S keyboard update Message #20 Posted by Morten Nygaard Åsnes on 8 Dec 2011, 5:34 a.m., in response to message #7 by Walter B Quote: Now the modification can be seen in Sourceforge. Manual and overlay files are updated but the software isn't yet - will follow soon. No guarantee for this being the final one. Probability rises, however :-) Enjoy, Walter I see the <( and )> for scrolling binary numbers are still on the same key (with different modifiers). Would you please consider having them on separate keys? It would be a lot easier to use. I would be willing to sacrifice the base 8 function (which I think is not that much used these days)

Re: WP 34S keyboard update Message #21 Posted by fhub on 8 Dec 2011, 5:45 a.m., in response to message #20 by Morten Nygaard Åsnes Quote: I see the <( and )> for scrolling binary numbers are still on the same key (with different modifiers). Would you please consider having them on separate keys? It would be a lot easier to use. I remember having seen this request already many times in the past, but I really don't understand what's the problem with these keys!? If you have a long binary number you usually scroll in one direction to see all digits, and not back and forward all the time. And if you want indeed scroll back in the other direction, then why would it be 'easier' (?) to do it with the same prefix [f] and an other key instead of an other prefix [g] and the same key? Sorry but I don't get it ... And BTW I think it's quite logical to put together (on one key) what belongs together. Edited: 8 Dec 2011, 5:47 a.m.

Re: WP 34S keyboard update Message #22 Posted by Morten Nygaard Åsnes on 8 Dec 2011, 6:12 a.m., in response to message #21 by fhub Quote: I remember having seen this request already many times in the past, but I really don't understand what's the problem with these keys!? If you have a long binary number you usually scroll in one direction to see all digits, and not back and forward all the time. And if you want indeed scroll back in the other direction, then why would it be 'easier' (?) to do it with the same prefix [f] and an other key instead of an other prefix [g] and the same key? Sorry but I don't get it ... And BTW I think it's quite logical to put together (on one key) what belongs together. When it comes to keys for navigation, I think it's not very logical to put these on the same key. I think the only reason they are on the same key is because of a lack of available keys, which is fair enough I guess. I also think it is common to scroll back and forth when you're looking at a long binary number, at least I do that when I'm looking at some kind of binary protocol that I want to understand. The advantage with having them on different keys is that you can keep the modifier key pressed while you scroll back and forth with the arrow keys. Another related wish that I think I mentioned before, is to only display 8 bits at a time in base 2 mode to make it easier to know which byte within the whole number you are looking at.

Re: WP 34S keyboard update Message #23 Posted by Marcus von Cube, Germany on 8 Dec 2011, 9:28 a.m., in response to message #22 by Morten Nygaard Åsnes Quote: Another related wish that I think I mentioned before, is to only display 8 bits at a time in base 2 mode to make it easier to know which byte within the whole number you are looking at. Or display 12 bits but force a byte align to the right of the display.

Re: WP 34S keyboard update Message #24 Posted by Marcus von Cube, Germany on 8 Dec 2011, 9:26 a.m., in response to message #20 by Morten Nygaard Åsnes Swapping 2 and )> was an old suggestion of mine but it wasn't accepted by the other team members. BASE 8 is in use sometimes.

Re: WP 34S keyboard update Message #25 Posted by Egan Ford on 8 Dec 2011, 11:47 a.m., in response to message #24 by Marcus von Cube, Germany Quote: Swapping 2 and )> was an old suggestion of mine but it wasn't accepted by the other team members. I asked for the same. Aesthetics shouldn't trump functionality. The 16C way is better and should be emulated.

Re: WP 34S keyboard update Message #26 Posted by Paul Dale on 8 Dec 2011, 6:02 p.m., in response to message #25 by Egan Ford Quote: I asked for the same. Aesthetics shouldn't trump functionality. The 16C way is better and should be emulated. Scrolling one digit at a time? We can do this, I don't view it as being better however. - Pauli

Re: WP 34S keyboard update Message #27 Posted by Marcus von Cube, Germany on 9 Dec 2011, 2:19 a.m., in response to message #26 by Paul Dale I vote for 8 digits at a time which is two thirds of our display. So you always see half of the previous information. If we add fixed delimiters to give the eyes something to rest on, things improve further. I've done this just for binary mode to play around with and see if it is helpful or not.

Re: WP 34S keyboard update Message #28 Posted by Cristian Arezzini on 9 Dec 2011, 6:58 a.m., in response to message #27 by Marcus von Cube, Germany Quote: If we add fixed delimiters to give the eyes something to rest on, things improve further. Something like a decimal point at every byte delimiter? Or some extra character using the 7-segment?

Re: WP 34S keyboard update Message #29 Posted by Marcus von Cube, Germany on 9 Dec 2011, 7:14 a.m., in response to message #28 by Cristian Arezzini We are discussing (and implementing) options. Currently, the display of separators follows the decimal mode settings. Windowing is dependent on this mode setting (12 without separators, 8 or 9 depending on base with separators displayed.) You can use h dot to toggle the separator display in integer mode. The changed setting carries over to decimal mode which might be a bit unexpected because you need to go to MODE to change it again. I might update the behavior to use a separate setting in integer mode. EDIT: The two flags are now being kept apart. The command names have changed from E3ON/OFF to SEPON/OFF because the digit grouping is no longer fixed at 3. ON+dot to change the radix mark is gone for good. It was redundant anyway. Edited: 9 Dec 2011, 7:47 a.m.

Re: WP 34S keyboard update (2) Message #30 Posted by Walter B on 11 Dec 2011, 1:33 a.m., in response to message #7 by Walter B Almost forgot another little modification discussed earlier: h 6 takes a catalogue of statistical sums, while the other statistics is collected in STAT. SW, manual and overlay files are updated. No guarantee for this being the final layout change. Probability rises, however :-) Enjoy, Walter

Re: WP 34S keyboard update (2) Message #31 Posted by fhub on 12 Dec 2011, 6:32 a.m., in response to message #30 by Walter B Quote: Almost forgot another little modification And also one in the manual: ;-) In version 3 the parameter for R-COPY is ss.nnddd instead of ss.nnddd as in version 2. The 3.0 manual shows still the old format. Edited: 12 Dec 2011, 6:48 a.m.

Re: WP 34S keyboard update (2) Message #32 Posted by Walter B on 12 Dec 2011, 3:55 p.m., in response to message #31 by fhub Quote: In version 3 the parameter for R-COPY is ss.nnddd instead of ss.nnddd as in version 2. ;-) Anyway, you'll find it repaired in the manual committed next. Thanks!

Re: WP 34S keyboard update (2) Message #33 Posted by Dominic Richens on 12 Dec 2011, 2:53 p.m., in response to message #30 by Walter B Nice! I love "live update" menus! Really liking the new layout and catalog organization. I don't need matrix functionality but I'm already thinking of sourcing an HP-30b to be ready for when I can get a V3.0 overlay. Have you guys thought about moving BestF, LinF, ExpF, etc.. to the MODE menu since they modify a setting? Or maybe resurrect the CFIT and replace ./, with it?

Re: WP 34S keyboard update (2) Message #34 Posted by Walter B on 12 Dec 2011, 3:52 p.m., in response to message #33 by Dominic Richens Quote: Have you guys thought about moving BestF, LinF, ExpF, etc.. to the MODE menu since they modify a setting? Oui, monsieur - you'll find this idea implemented in next build :-) Merci!

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