HP Forum Archive 20

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No complaints about the HP-12C AE? Message #1 Posted by From Hong Kong on 16 Sept 2011, 1:55 a.m. Many problems of the HP-15C LE have been reported so far. However, I don't see any complaints about the HP-12C AE. I wonder if the HP-12C AE is nearly perfect.

Re: No complaints about the HP-12C AE? Message #2 Posted by Katie Wasserman on 16 Sept 2011, 2:07 a.m., in response to message #1 by From Hong Kong It got released with old firmware. See this thread. Somehow this thread got lost in the Forum archives. The essential fact is that the 12C 30th AE got released with firmware dated 2009-07-02 and has bugs in it that were fixed in later releases back in 2009.

Re: No complaints about the HP-12C AE? Message #3 Posted by From Hong Kong on 16 Sept 2011, 2:31 a.m., in response to message #2 by Katie Wasserman Thanks, Katie! :) It seems that the HP-12C AE users are 'luckier' than the HP-15C LE users. The HP-15C LE's key and current draw problems are not fixed easily!

Re: No complaints about the HP-12C AE? Message #4 Posted by Katie Wasserman on 16 Sept 2011, 3:33 a.m., in response to message #3 by From Hong Kong I don't understand the key problems on the 15C LE, I would have thought that they were made on the same production line as the 12C+ machines are, perhaps not. However, the current draw, PSE and self-test problems on the 15C LE should be relatively easy to fix using the same patching techniques that were used to create the 12C+. I think the hardest part of fixing the 12C AE and the 15C LE will be getting new firmware to the existing and future owners. Will HP recall these, make cables and new firmware easily available to all who want them (and don't read this forum), something else, or just ignore the problem? I sure hope it's not that last option. -Katie

Re: No complaints about the HP-12C AE? Message #5 Posted by From Hong Kong on 16 Sept 2011, 3:58 a.m., in response to message #4 by Katie Wasserman Quote: Will HP recall these, make cables and new firmware easily available to all who want them (and don't read this forum), something else, or just ignore the problem? I sure hope it's not that last option. -Katie The chance of recalling the defective units is very slim. I think they may fix the not-yet-shipped units and probably ignore the shipped ones. As Gene has been making cables for power users, they may not bother to provide cables in the short term. In the long term, they may consider including a cable to every unit just like the HP-50G package.

Re: No complaints about the HP-12C AE? Message #6 Posted by gene wright on 16 Sept 2011, 7:47 a.m., in response to message #5 by From Hong Kong And if I need to send out cables to 10,000 people, I'm sorry to say but my price will have to go up! lol I believe the $3 / $5 I charge comes within $0.25 of covering my costs. Paypal takes 10% off the top. Then postage. Then the envelopes, then gas to get to the post office (which is no longer trivial). Then since I'm now doing this roughly 3 times a week, I value my time at the remaining $0.25 per 1/2 hour. :-) That time is time putting all this stuff into the envelopes, getting the addresses right, filling out the customs forms (wow, a lot of you guys live overseas from me!), etc. :-) But, if the volume continues to go up (I have sent 15 in the last week), I might have to adjust...just a little bit. I can still promise that doing this is not contributing to my retirement fund.

Cable for update firmware Message #7 Posted by Artur-Brazil on 16 Sept 2011, 11:16 a.m., in response to message #6 by gene wright Gene, I missed out the thread about this cable but would like to know if you have posted any pictures or schematic about it, so, for us living far abroad, may be we could make our own cables. Best regards Artur - Brazil Edited: 16 Sept 2011, 11:41 a.m.

Re: Cable for update firmware Message #8 Posted by Miguel Toro on 16 Sept 2011, 12:52 p.m., in response to message #7 by Artur-Brazil Hello, Please, see this post, message #12 from Katie Wasserman. Regards, Miguel

Re: Cable for update firmware Message #9 Posted by Artur-Brazil on 16 Sept 2011, 3:04 p.m., in response to message #8 by Miguel Toro Great Miguel! Isn't a so simple task and the cables are very well done!!! Many thanks! Artur

Re: No complaints about the HP-12C AE? Message #10 Posted by Seth Morabito on 16 Sept 2011, 1:57 p.m., in response to message #6 by gene wright Quote: I believe the $3 / $5 I charge ... Well there's your problem! ;) I'd gladly pay $10 for one of these cables, plus shipping, and I'd still feel like I was getting a bargain. Heck, compared to the prices I've paid SOME vendors in the past (*cough*Cisco and DEC*cough*) for proprietary cables, $10 feels like a rounding error. By the way, I really would like to buy one of these cables, but unfortunately I will not be making it to HHC this year. I'm extraordinarily bummed out about that, too. This seems like a year not to miss, but there's just no way I can do the trip this time. Sigh.

Re: No complaints about the HP-12C AE? Message #11 Posted by gene wright on 16 Sept 2011, 3:12 p.m., in response to message #10 by Seth Morabito Ah, but HP did not give me these cables to get rich. They gave them to me to take a load off their day-to-day activities. A big corporation might not have to worry about allocating postage to individual mailings, but I think it better if the HP calculator team is not sending out cables one at a time. So, I offered to help. HP would not be happy if I started selling these on ebay, of course. :-)

Re: No complaints about the HP-12C AE? Message #12 Posted by Calum Tait on 16 Sept 2011, 8:43 a.m., in response to message #5 by From Hong Kong Quote: The chance of recalling the defective units is very slim. I think they may fix the not-yet-shipped units and probably ignore the shipped ones. As Gene has been making cables for power users, they may not bother to provide cables in the short term. In the long term, they may consider including a cable to every unit just like the HP-50G package. That's a shame. When the 35 and 11C were discovered to have bugs they were recalled and users given a new calculator. Bill apparently thought that customers should have confidence in the HP name. What an old fashioned way of thinking that now seems!

Re: No complaints about the HP-12C AE? Message #13 Posted by Seth Morabito on 16 Sept 2011, 2:01 p.m., in response to message #12 by Calum Tait Though to be fair, adjusted for inflation the HP-35 cost US $2,000.00 when it was introduced, and the HP-11C cost US $317.00. I'm not at all happy with reports of poor quality, but I wouldn't expect a recall for a $90.00 product, either.

Re: No complaints about the HP-12C AE? Message #14 Posted by Calum Tait on 17 Sept 2011, 6:44 a.m., in response to message #13 by Seth Morabito I don't think the price should be the main issue. At $90 it is still quite an expensive calculator anyway but it is more a matter of the company showing that it offers quality products and has good customer service. In other words, that it cares about its customers. The fact that everything nowadays seems to boil down to cost without thinking about the lost future sales from a bad service experience encapsulates everything that has gone wrong with companies like HP. A faulty $90 calculator could tarnish someone's confidence in a company enough to affect a much bigger purchase in the future.

Re: No complaints about the HP-12C AE? Message #15 Posted by Martin Pinckney on 16 Sept 2011, 7:38 a.m., in response to message #4 by Katie Wasserman Quote: I don't understand the key problems on the 15C LE, I would have thought that they were made on the same production line as the 12C+ machines are, perhaps not. There's no key problem! The blue and yellow shift keys just wiggle a tiny amount.

Re: No complaints about the HP-12C AE? Message #16 Posted by Katie Wasserman on 16 Sept 2011, 10:36 a.m., in response to message #15 by Martin Pinckney A few users have reported keys that are stuck and/or not registering when clicked on the 15C LE. Edited: 16 Sept 2011, 10:37 a.m.

Re: No complaints about the HP-12C AE? Message #17 Posted by Martin Pinckney on 16 Sept 2011, 12:55 p.m., in response to message #16 by Katie Wasserman I completely missed those reports.

Re: No complaints about the HP-12C AE? Message #18 Posted by Paul Gaster on 16 Sept 2011, 1:03 p.m., in response to message #17 by Martin Pinckney http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/forum.cgi?read=195423#195423 It is up to 4 reports now.

Re: No complaints about the HP-12C AE? Message #19 Posted by Crawl on 16 Sept 2011, 7:53 a.m., in response to message #4 by Katie Wasserman Yes, I just hope they do something. Sending it back or patching it myself (assuming I can do it; I don't have a cable yet) would both be palatable to me.

Re: No complaints about the HP-12C AE? Message #20 Posted by gene wright on 16 Sept 2011, 3:14 p.m., in response to message #19 by Crawl You can do it. Cable is available for cost of postage and the procedure really is simple enough that all can do it. You DO need a serial port or a usb to serial adapter of a special type. I found a $50 laptop on ebay with a serial port that I use for this stuff. If I can flash a unit...

Re: No complaints about the HP-12C AE? Message #21 Posted by Bart (UK) on 16 Sept 2011, 4:49 a.m., in response to message #2 by Katie Wasserman Quote: Somehow this thread got lost in the Forum archives. The live forum has a limit of 501 messages, there's so much activity right now that messages are moving into the archive within 2 days :-)

Re: No complaints about the HP-12C AE? Message #22 Posted by Lincoln R. on 16 Sept 2011, 2:07 a.m., in response to message #1 by From Hong Kong Probably. My impression of the 12C AE is that it's most likely just a regular-production 12C with a "30th Anniversary" script and a limited edition number printed on it. There was 1 report of a 12C AE coming with out-of-date firmware on it, but that's probably just an assembly plant screwup that should be easy to fix. HP has been building 12Cs continuously since 1981, while this is the first time they've tried to make a 15C since 1989, so it's perfectly reasonable for a few minor, correctable software bugs to turn up. Also, at least some of the making fun of the build quality is probably coming from people who have no use for a financial calculator and never owned a modern 12C.

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