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So what will a 15C LE be like?
Message #1 Posted by snaggs on 18 Aug 2011, 9:19 a.m.

Will it have a 2 line display? Will it be above the capability of the 35s, the same or simpler? Do you think it will have algebraic mode or just straight RPN?

Daniel.

      
Re: So what will a 15C LE be like?
Message #2 Posted by Miguel Toro on 18 Aug 2011, 9:23 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by snaggs

Here you can find the information. The Overview part has been updated.

Miguel

            
Re: So what will a 15C LE be like?
Message #3 Posted by snaggs on 18 Aug 2011, 9:39 a.m.,
in response to message #2 by Miguel Toro

Quote:
Here you can find the information. The Overview part has been updated.

Miguel

Seems to be taken down again. Anyone have a summary? Surely they'll update variables, memory etc.

                  
Re: So what will a 15C LE be like?
Message #4 Posted by Jim Yohe on 18 Aug 2011, 1:09 p.m.,
in response to message #3 by snaggs

No it's still up.

                        
Re: So what will a 15C LE be like?
Message #5 Posted by M. Joury on 18 Aug 2011, 2:11 p.m.,
in response to message #4 by Jim Yohe

I can't get to it.

                              
(deleted post)
Message #6 Posted by deleted on 18 Aug 2011, 2:37 p.m.,
in response to message #5 by M. Joury

This Message was deleted. This empty message preserves the threading when a post with followup(s) is deleted. If all followups have been removed, the original poster may delete this post again to make this placeholder disappear.

                                    
Re: So what will a 15C LE be like?
Message #7 Posted by M. Joury on 18 Aug 2011, 3:39 p.m.,
in response to message #6 by deleted

Now it doesn't, now it does. Someone messing with our heads? I tried it several times earlier with no luck but now it works...

                                          
Re: So what will a 15C LE be like?
Message #8 Posted by Michael de Estrada on 18 Aug 2011, 4:00 p.m.,
in response to message #7 by M. Joury

Maybe they're currently adding new content, so it keeps getting taken down. Anyways, why are you all getting so worked up over something that quite clearly has some time to go before it is ready for release. At least it seems likely to occur sometime this year.

                                                
Re: So what will a 15C LE be like?
Message #9 Posted by M. Joury on 18 Aug 2011, 4:40 p.m.,
in response to message #8 by Michael de Estrada

Because I'm bored? I would hardly call it "worked up". I really don't care if the machine becomes available this month, next month, or in 6 months as long as they come out with one eventually.

                  
Re: So what will a 15C LE be like?
Message #10 Posted by NateB on 18 Aug 2011, 4:09 p.m.,
in response to message #3 by snaggs

You can find info on the specs here. The only update is speed.

      
Re: So what will a 15C LE be like?
Message #11 Posted by Michael de Estrada on 18 Aug 2011, 9:28 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by snaggs

According to what has been published so far and then removed, it will be a replica of the original 15C with a much faster CPU. It will have the same package of the 12C+ with 2 CR2032 batteries. No dual line dot matrix display and no algebraic (gasp) mode.

Edit: Miguel beat me to it. HP keeps putting up and taking down pages.

Edit #2: At the bottom of the HP webpage it says "Addition loop test, completed in HP labs. Up to 100X faster than original HP 15c." This definitely points to the 12C+ processor and clocking, and the actual existence of this product, at least in prototype form. It also indicates that it will be much faster than a 35s.

Edited: 18 Aug 2011, 9:40 a.m.

            
Re: So what will a 15C LE be like?
Message #12 Posted by Marcus von Cube, Germany on 18 Aug 2011, 11:15 a.m.,
in response to message #11 by Michael de Estrada

If you look at what we know about the 12C+, the matter should be clear from the beginning. The 12C+ is an exact work-alike of the classic 12C because it runs the original firmware in an emulated environment.

Guess what HP did to resurrect the 15C? It's just a 12C+ with differently painted keys and the firmware image replaced by that of the 15C. I assume that there were some adjustments to the emulator to support the larger memory space of the 15C compared to the 12C, but this should be minor.

The emulator runs on an Atmel ARM7 microprocessor in a shell that closely resembles the original voyager housing. This explains the speed improvement over the original.

      
Re: So what will a 15C LE be like?
Message #13 Posted by Don Shepherd on 18 Aug 2011, 11:28 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by snaggs

Um, why don't you just wait until it is officially announced. Then you will know.

      
Re: So what will a 15C LE be like?
Message #14 Posted by Walter B on 18 Aug 2011, 1:35 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by snaggs

It will look and behave like a thirty-year-old pocket calculator, just compute 100x faster.

Very nice compact package, quick and easy access to the functions printed on the keyboard. Well suited for advanced calculations on the fly. OTOH outdated programming model (still key codes :-( instead of mnemonics), very limited memory, plain numeric display, no I/O. Original functionality and original UI - no progress but speed-wise in thirty years.

Ceterum censeo: ... you probably know.

Walter

            
Re: So what will a 15C LE be like?
Message #15 Posted by Gerson W. Barbosa on 19 Aug 2011, 5:10 p.m.,
in response to message #14 by Walter B

Quote:
no progress but speed-wise in thirty years.

That's enough for me. It was my first HP calculator and I still can read the key codes :-)

There is only one thing I may not like in it: on the back of my HP-12C+ it reads: 

Product of China
Fabriqué en Chine
Hecho en China
Fabricado no China

English, French and Spanish are ok but Portuguese is wrong. China is a feminine noun (as most nouns ending in -a), therefore the correct contracted form of the preposition plus the definite article is na (em + a): Fabricado na China. Spelling and grammar mistakes in Chinese products, no matter the language, are generally an indication they are counterfeit. This reason alone might justify the correction. I think I mentioned this before here, but the error is still present in the back of the HP-20b. I wish I had a more persuasive way to convince them to fix it :-)

Romans go home (from Monty Python's Life of Brian)

Gerson.

                  
Re: So what will a 15C LE be like?
Message #16 Posted by Massimo Gnerucci (Italy) on 19 Aug 2011, 5:25 p.m.,
in response to message #15 by Gerson W. Barbosa

Quote:
Romans go home (from Monty Python's Life of Brian)

A masterpiece!
:-)

Massimo

      
Re: So what will a 15C LE be like?
Message #17 Posted by Jeroen Van Nieuwenhove on 18 Aug 2011, 6:48 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by snaggs

I can even predict the initial reviews in this forum.

First, we will complain about the keys and the display. Both of them will not be up to ancient Voyager standards.

Next, we will attack the sorry battery life, compared to the original 15C. Someone will be claiming his 15C still runs on the original batteries after the batteries of his new 15C LE have already gone dead.

Finally, we will lose ourselves in the emulation vs. simulation debate. Some will argue that a simulation with expanded memory and additional features would have been better, while others will contend that a simulation will always contain some bugs (<cough> 35s <cough>) that a true 15C emulation does not exhibit.

            
Re: So what will a 15C LE be like?
Message #18 Posted by Michael de Estrada on 18 Aug 2011, 7:25 p.m.,
in response to message #17 by Jeroen Van Nieuwenhove

I doubt it. Your first complaint will be that you were unable to get one, because only a very small number were available outside the USA. You will then be forced to buy one on TAS for even more than the vintage ones cost.

                  
Re: So what will a 15C LE be like?
Message #19 Posted by Thomas Radtke on 19 Aug 2011, 7:56 a.m.,
in response to message #18 by Michael de Estrada

Quote:
I doubt it. Your first complaint will be that you were unable to get one, because only a very small number were available outside the USA.
At least SC offered to ship anywhere, and all who really care likely preordered one. Nothing to complain here, imo.
                        
Re: So what will a 15C LE be like?
Message #20 Posted by Michael de Estrada on 19 Aug 2011, 8:07 a.m.,
in response to message #19 by Thomas Radtke

And I say "don't count your chickens until they are hatched."

                              
Re: So what will a 15C LE be like?
Message #21 Posted by Thomas Radtke on 19 Aug 2011, 8:11 a.m.,
in response to message #20 by Michael de Estrada

Right you are.

                  
Re: So what will a 15C LE be like?
Message #22 Posted by Jeroen Van Nieuwenhove on 19 Aug 2011, 7:05 p.m.,
in response to message #18 by Michael de Estrada

Quote:
only a very small number were available outside the USA.
You seem to be in the know. Please tell us more ;-) We Europeans might have to wait a little longer and we surely will pay a little more, but eventually these 15C LE will find their way to my local retailer/webshop. I trust a limited edition does not mean that HP will not try to maximize their potential profits from this product.

Edited: 19 Aug 2011, 7:05 p.m.

            
Re: So what will a 15C LE be like?
Message #23 Posted by LMMT on 19 Aug 2011, 4:22 a.m.,
in response to message #17 by Jeroen Van Nieuwenhove

If you allow me, I am going even further: some people will be willing to repurpose the new HP-15C to make it work at the speed of the original one. This way, HP will go definitely crazy about us.

                  
Re: So what will a 15C LE be like?
Message #24 Posted by Marcus von Cube, Germany on 19 Aug 2011, 8:32 a.m.,
in response to message #23 by LMMT

Will the 15C LE support the 12C+ firmware? Just in case... ;-)

                        
Re: So what will a 15C LE be like?
Message #25 Posted by Walter B on 19 Aug 2011, 10:44 a.m.,
in response to message #24 by Marcus von Cube, Germany

Quote:
Will the 15C LE support the 12C+ firmware? Just in case... ;-)
This support will not, however, put in a reasonable display :-/
                              
Re: So what will a 15C LE be like?
Message #26 Posted by Håkan Thörngren on 19 Aug 2011, 4:02 p.m.,
in response to message #25 by Walter B

Hopefully it will not have a decent display. Please keep that useless thing that cannot display alpha characters. Do not put a HP-41 style display in!

Because otherwise I would feel a strong need to repurpose it with my own software, wasting countless hours of work that I could use for other non-HP projects...

So please do not put a decent display in, so I can just ignore it. :/

                                    
Re: So what will a 15C LE be like?
Message #27 Posted by Paul Gaster on 19 Aug 2011, 7:46 p.m.,
in response to message #26 by Håkan Thörngren

I just thought of something that made me a bit sick to my stomach. What if, and this is a big IF, HP somehow used some 35S code for trig functions in the new 15C LE? That would truly be sickening. I wonder how many would buy it then?

Is it even possible to reuse the code from a 35S? I am hoping that someone says no....

                                          
Re: So what will a 15C LE be like?
Message #28 Posted by Lincoln R. on 19 Aug 2011, 9:21 p.m.,
in response to message #27 by Paul Gaster

Probably not possible, the 35S was 6502 based, and the 15C LE will almost certainly be Atmel ARM. Also, I believe the 35S's software was written by Kinpo (the company that was making HP's calcs at the time) and not by HP.

I honestly suspect it will be a new style 12C with different labels and firmware. The modern 12C apparently emulates a Voyager chipset on an ARM, IIRC the displays in Voyagers were the same or quite similar, so HP has little development cost in this other than tracking down the original 15C ROM and getting it to run in the existing emulation, and having their manufacturing contractor (I think they've mostly been using Inventec lately) print different key labels.

For that matter (and here's a real pipe dream), this architecture would make it trivial to build new 16Cs.

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