Re: At least some companies listen (or check the auctions) Message #39 Posted by DaveJ on 23 Oct 2009, 1:47 a.m., in response to message #30 by Mike Morrow
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I'm not the one missing the point. The point is to sell calculators. The advantage that results from functionality is demonstrable. Any supposed advantage from "retro appeal" and "coolness" is in the realm of religion.
When comparing two products of the same type, yes. The 15C and 42S have always will be fairly different beasts.
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Calculators do not sell in any great numbers based upon any kind of retro appeal. I'd be curious to know what anchors that in your mind as the principal product characteristic that would dominate and dictate sales.
I'm not saying it's the principle appeal, but it's an additional appeal that will not be lost on modern forms of social marketing such as tech blogs.
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Calculators sell in great numbers to a general audience based principally on price, functionality, and ease of use. The HP-15C fails the HP42S in the last two of those. I doubt that many of the people who for almost 15 years have paid high auction prices for the HP42S did so because of any retro or even any collector appeal. I suspect they do so because the HP42S is (somewhat unfortunately) **STILL** 2009 State-Of-The-Art in RPN calculator functionality. No other RPN calculator has been produced that can take its honored spot. Had there been such a later machine, it would currently be the most sought after, not the HP42S or the HP-15C. For functionality. Not for retro appeal.
It's silly to compare the 15C and 42S in functionality, it's chalk and cheese.
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It's my understanding that current HP-12C models are based on completely different processor hardware and firmware than were the units of the same vintage as the HP-15C. The original HP-15C firmware translation to the new hardware would be almost as much an effort, for very little return, as it would be to translate HP42S firmware to the new hardware, with potential for much greater return for the effort.
Not so. The new 12C uses the original 12C ROM via an emulator, so all the real hard work has been done, HP recalled rights to the original 15C ROM for just this purpose. Just drop the 15C ROM into the current 12C emulator and you should be good to go.
Not so with the 42S where no current hardware/firmware platform exists to emulate that I am aware of.
As someone else said, a new 15C has already been demonstrated, so a 42S is nothing but pie in the sky. If HP are going to re-release either the 15C or 42S, smart money is on the 15C, by far.
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I don't understand this obsession with some mythological and purely hypothetical mass retro geek appeal. It doubtless does NOT exist in enough quantity to make it worth even a week's development costs.
Yet HP chose to push the retro angle when it marketed the 35S, and has also continued a retro angle with the 12C.
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OTOH, the HP42S design appeals to those seeking the highest development of an RPN calculator for actual day-to-day use.
Which is an audience bordering on almost ZERO in terms of the current market!
Do you really think Joe-Public gives a toss about having the most powerful RPN calculator ever made? Hint, it's down about the same level as your perceived level of retro appeal.
The 15C at least has a novel form factor compared to other scientific calcs currently on the market, which *might* give it an edge in marketability over the 42S in today's market. Especially when it's going to come in at a much lower price point.
The 42S has neither, all it has going for it is its (hidden) power.
But once again, we are not comparing apples to apples here, so the point is bit moot.
I'm not in marketing, but if I was I think I'd prefer the low price point limited functionality retro form factor 15C than the ordinary looking but powerful 42S at a higher price point.
Any marketing people here who want to share their views?
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I've used mine in work capacity almost daily for 12 years, and it's held up far better than the HP-15C that I used for eleven years before that. I suspect most HP42S users do likewise. I suspect these people far far outnumber any who would purchase a cryptic cyber-cipher like the HP-15C, were they given the choice.
The point is not about HP fanboys and what they want/like, it's about the general market and what will appeal to them more.
I wager the 15C will generate more market excitement than the 42S, at much lower development cost and risk to HP. Will that translate into good sales?, only time will tell.
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Other factors yes, but not the *ONE* upon which you hang *ALL* your hopes. More reasonable would be the really radical approach of producing an instrument that provides a significant advance in capability over the proposed alternative, one that equals or advances what has been available, one that will see actual daily use in a work environment, by workers (not students, not retro geeks).
It's all about what HP can actually bring to market with their limited resources.
A few almost certain facts are in order:
- A new 15C has already been demonstrated
- A new 15C requires comparatively little NRE
- A new 15C can leverage off existing 12C production to lower the cost (the hardware is identical to the current production 12C)
- A 15C will be easier to sell internally to management
- A new 42S requires much more development and NRE
- No current platform exists to emulate the 42S, it must be developed(?)
- A new 42S will be at a more expensive price point
- A new 42S will be tougher to sell internally to management.
Based on that the odds of HP bringing a new 42S to market are pretty darn low. Sorry to all you 42S fanboys!
Dave.
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