HP Forum Archive 19

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Seriously; You are the best Message #1 Posted by Geir Isene on 6 Mar 2009, 2:20 p.m. Of all the forums and other internet arenas I engage in, this is by far the best. This forum is friendly, informative, generous, including, tolerant and even witty. Just had to get this out. So, thanks to all of you.

Re: Seriously; You are the best Message #2 Posted by Jandro Kirkish on 6 Mar 2009, 2:51 p.m., in response to message #1 by Geir Isene I'd like to second that. This forum rocks! No I'm not drunk.

Re: Seriously; You are the best Message #3 Posted by Michael de Estrada on 6 Mar 2009, 3:02 p.m., in response to message #1 by Geir Isene What I find most interesting about this forum is the incredible diversity of its participants. It's much more than just a few HP calculator buffs, spanning the whole spectrum of human professions and avocations. I also find tremendous creativity and intellectual curiosity here. Even though I am already in my 60's, I am more than ever interested in learning new things, and every day I learn something new on this forum. BTW - I visited your neat website, and enjoyed your offerings. Thanks, Michael

Re: Seriously; You are the best Message #4 Posted by George Bailey (Bedford Falls) on 7 Mar 2009, 3:03 a.m., in response to message #3 by Michael de Estrada Yes, I also agree that this forum is a great place to be! With friendly and interesting people! Quote: What I find most interesting about this forum is the incredible diversity of its participants. It's much more than just a few HP calculator buffs, spanning the whole spectrum of human professions and avocations. Not really. We only represent a very narrow cut from the spectrum of humankind: age wise (45ish), profession wise (mostly math and technical) and gender wise (very man'ish), I even suspect ethnic/race wise (assumed from the conference photos) and religion wise (assumed from the seasons greetings). I still like us, though! ;-) Edited: 7 Mar 2009, 3:05 a.m.

Re: Seriously; You are the best Message #5 Posted by Katie Wasserman on 7 Mar 2009, 10:54 a.m., in response to message #4 by George Bailey (Bedford Falls) Quote: We only represent a very narrow cut from the spectrum of humankind: age wise (45ish), profession wise (mostly math and technical) and gender wise (very man'ish), I even suspect ethnic/race wise Agree with all but the "very man'ish" part. While I'm probably the only regular woman on this forum I feel comfortable because it's very gender neutral in content. I suspect that without reading the name of the poster it would in most cases be difficult to tell the gender of the author. Members are very supportive of each other, no one ever curses and it's free of guns, sports and monster truck talk! Edited: 7 Mar 2009, 11:15 a.m.

Re: Seriously; You are the best Message #6 Posted by bill platt on 7 Mar 2009, 11:31 a.m., in response to message #5 by Katie Wasserman Heeeey, Race Fans! Vrooom rooom ;-)

Re: Seriously; You are the best Message #7 Posted by Michael de Estrada on 7 Mar 2009, 12:25 p.m., in response to message #4 by George Bailey (Bedford Falls) Well, I've never been to an HP conference, so perhaps everyone there is a WASP, but I see a lot more diversity in others on this forum. Certainly, I'm no WASP. As far as professions go, math is not so much a profession as it is an academic subject. Even if you teach mathematics for a living, your profession is educator, not mathematician. The term "technical" covers a very wide swath of related professions, such as engineering, education, information, medicine, applied sciences, social services, finance, etc. Among the forum members I've seen a psychiatrist, astro-physicist and financial planner. So I stand by my statement that there is diversity here. I have a personal friend who is a theologian and a real calculator nut. What could such a person possibly want with a calculator? He's trying to calculate the number of angels that can fit on the head of a pin. Michael

Re: Seriously; You are the best Message #8 Posted by Don Shepherd on 7 Mar 2009, 1:26 p.m., in response to message #7 by Michael de Estrada Quote: I have a personal friend who is a theologian and a real calculator nut. What could such a person possibly want with a calculator? Let's see. The father, son, and holy ghost all in one person. So 3=1. That makes even imaginary numbers look simple!

Re: Seriously; You are the best Message #9 Posted by Michael de Estrada on 7 Mar 2009, 2:13 p.m., in response to message #8 by Don Shepherd I believe the proper functions will be available on the soon-to-be-released HP-99T "Theologian." In addition to the normal stack registers x,y,z and t, it will have an additional register h, which is only accessible after you die. Michael

Re: Seriously; You are the best Message #10 Posted by Walter B on 7 Mar 2009, 4:35 p.m., in response to message #9 by Michael de Estrada Reminds me of a forum member who was up to create a 34R calculating Easter (R for religious) ;)

Re: Seriously; You are the best Message #11 Posted by J-F Garnier on 8 Mar 2009, 1:38 p.m., in response to message #9 by Michael de Estrada This also reminds me the THEOLOGY ROM for the HP-71B, with its powerful CREATE ALL statement (the regular HP-71b has DESTROY ALL, PURGE ALL and END ALL statements). Below is an excerpt from HPX Echange, V1N3p17 May/June 1987 : Titan File #12, by Joseph Horn +--------------+ ! THEOLOGY ROM ! +--------------+ As the astute noticed, the Quick Reference Guide in "HP-71 BASIC Made Easy" (pg. 147) refers to the CREATE ALL statement in the THEOLOGY ROM. This is just one of the many keywords to be found in this huge lexfile. It is based on a higher source code, which unfortunately this magazine is too small to contain. But I just have to tell you about CREATE ALL; you are sure to get a big bang out of it! CREATE ALL, as the name implies, creates everything. Since this is such an immense task, it takes about six DAYS (!) to finish, after which the configuration code works for another 24 hours making sure that what was CREATEd is indeed good, during which time the HP-71 will appear to have gone into deep sleep. Of course, CREATE ALL only works if ALL does not already exist. If ALL already exists, CREATE ALL gives the "File already exists" error. If this occurs, it isn't enough to PURGE ALL or even DESTROY ALL. The THEOLOGY ROM has an expanded version of END ALL that does the trick. Proper use of END ALL is vital, since further action by users who have ENDed is impossible. The following is suggested: "END ALL @ CREATE ALL" on one line! If interested in CREATE ALL and END ALL, please look for a subset lexfile called GENESIS on a future swapdisc! But PLEASE use it carefully!

OT: To be WASP or not to be WASP Message #12 Posted by Thomas Okken on 7 Mar 2009, 8:52 p.m., in response to message #7 by Michael de Estrada Quote: Certainly, I'm no WASP. Whenever I see the acronym "WASP", I think of Major Charles Emerson Winchester III. (I'm guessing most of the MoHPC Forum regulars are probably W, but quite a few of them are not AS (I'm not, being from the Netherlands) nor P (I'm not, being, like most of my extended family, non-religious).)

Re: OT: To be WASP or not to be WASP Message #13 Posted by Karl Schneider on 8 Mar 2009, 12:54 a.m., in response to message #12 by Thomas Okken Hi, Thomas -- Quote: ...W, but quite a few of them are not AS (I'm not, being from the Netherlands) nor P... Hmm, I'd thought of The Netherlands as Anglo-Saxon, due to its location between England (Anglo) and Saxony (a region of Germany), as well as the extensive similarity of the Dutch language to English and German. "Anglo-Saxon" is quite distinct in many ways from Romanic (Italian, French, Spanish, Portugese, and -- of course -- Romanian). I also just learned that Holland is only a region of The Netherlands, and not a synonymous or obsolete term for it, as countless others have believed. That's quite a Wikipedia article about Major Charles Winchester, with links to other M*A*S*H-related articles. The iconic American television series has dedicated fans. -- KS Edited: 8 Mar 2009, 1:14 a.m.

Re: OT: To be WASP or not to be WASP Message #14 Posted by Thomas Okken on 8 Mar 2009, 1:42 a.m., in response to message #13 by Karl Schneider Quote: Hmm, I'd thought of The Netherlands as Anglo-Saxon, due to its location between England (Anglo) and Saxony (a region of Germany), as well as the extensive similarity of the Dutch language to English and German. "Anglo" and "Saxon" actually *both* refer to regions in present-day Germany, the former being Angeln, now part of Schleswig-Holstein, on the Baltic coast. Regarding language similarities, you could have fooled me, I grew up speaking German and Dutch, and I found learning English to be quite the chore. If the proto-WASPS had done a better job in 1066, the gap between English and the other Germanic languages would probably be a lot smaller now! ;-) - Thomas

Re: OT: To be WASP or not to be WASP Message #15 Posted by db (martinez, ca.) on 8 Mar 2009, 12:18 p.m., in response to message #13 by Karl Schneider Karl; Extensive similarity is one way to put it. I've seldom heard my friend form Holland speak Dutch but when she has; i feel like i'm on the verge of understanding (kind of like programming in RPL). Written, it's even closer. I downloaded some Star Trek with Dutch subtitles and it made some sense w/o sound, all that "starfloaten" stuff... To me Dutch looks a little like English with almost all the Latin conjugates removed and a bunch of German nailed on in their place. They say that Frisian is even closer. - a Whitish Agnostic Sometime-Programmer

Re: OT: To be WASP or not to be WASP Message #16 Posted by Marcus von Cube, Germany on 8 Mar 2009, 1:29 p.m., in response to message #15 by db (martinez, ca.) For a German who lives not too far from the border in the Rhineland (my wife has grown up there) Dutch is kind of understandable. In written language it is even closer to German. Some words make us Germans smile. :)

Re: OT: To be WASP or not to be WASP Message #17 Posted by Juan J on 8 Mar 2009, 11:22 p.m., in response to message #15 by db (martinez, ca.) Quote: To me Dutch looks a little like English with almost all the Latin conjugates removed and a bunch of German nailed on in their place Hello, Dennis hit the nail. Take out French and Latin structures from English and the remainder is very close to German. The English language is a close relative to German, and both descend from a so-called Proto-German, which originated in India. Experts refer to both English and German as Indian languages. The first to unravel this origins were the Grimm brothers. While compiling Germn folk stories that became fairy tales, they noted similarities of German and some Hindu languages and started work on a dictionary that was completed a century later. "Aschenputtel" may not seem related to Cinderella, but Asche and Ash are quite similar to each other. After the defeat at Hastings in 1066, the English language received a heavy influence of Latin and French. Latin grammar and French terms were added, and over the years the language changed into its present form. File comes from Filum, Latin for origin (if I remember correctly,) and eventually became the term for archive, and so on. Once Jorge Luis Borges referred to the English language as "Latin-embedded German." A short but elegant description. My two cents. Edited: 8 Mar 2009, 11:25 p.m.

Re: OT: To be WASP or not to be WASP Message #18 Posted by Marcus von Cube, Germany on 9 Mar 2009, 6:05 a.m., in response to message #17 by Juan J More about the Indo-European languages: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_languages

Re: OT: To be WASP or not to be WASP Message #19 Posted by bill platt on 9 Mar 2009, 10:10 a.m., in response to message #17 by Juan J Actually, proto german is not from India at all, nor is Indo-European. Rather. the people who settled India and creating Hindi and many other languages there come from a common ancestor to the north...

Re: OT: To be WASP or not to be WASP Message #20 Posted by Andrés C. Rodríguez (Argentina) on 9 Mar 2009, 2:30 p.m., in response to message #17 by Juan J Nice Borges quote. I like the fact of having him mentioned here! Thanks!!

Re: Seriously; You are the best Message #21 Posted by bill platt on 8 Mar 2009, 12:50 a.m., in response to message #7 by Michael de Estrada My mom took classes at college with the man who coined the term, WASP! Digby Baltzell was his name. Most of us WASPS are actually much more polyglot in actuality. After 10 generations you have 1024 grandparents after all. Who can keep track of where they all came from! I have a number of "WASP" friends who discovered that an ancestor was even black, or native American.

Re: Seriously; You are the best Message #22 Posted by Egan Ford on 6 Mar 2009, 3:58 p.m., in response to message #1 by Geir Isene I totally agree. I think a lot of it has to be the average age (i.e. more experience, more mature, more to share). Some of the challenges here have given me hours and hours of joyful research. Many have kept me up for days (what else am I going to do? sleep? :-). Thanks all.

Re: Seriously; You are the best Message #23 Posted by Marcus von Cube, Germany on 6 Mar 2009, 6:47 p.m., in response to message #1 by Geir Isene I agree wholeheartedly! But there are more friendly places on the net and many friendly people. Just to cite a single story that is just happening while I write this: I'm a frequent follower of the French MySilicium Forum (my French getting better with time :)). Another famous member of the pocket computer community, Piotr Piatek (http://www.pisi.com.pl/piotr433/index.htm) follows the "pocket" area of this forum, even if he cannot read French and asks Google to kindly translate it for him. He picked up a query of mine for a TI-67 Galaxy: As he had a backup sample of this type, he has not only kindly offered it to me for a reasonable price, he is giving it away for free, even covering the transport fee. Those calculator people are a little crazy, aren't hey? ;) Marcus

Re: Seriously; You are the best Message #24 Posted by Ed Austin on 6 Mar 2009, 7:26 p.m., in response to message #23 by Marcus von Cube, Germany Love the forum and the friendly people! HP Calculator enthusiasts are a special bunch... and always somebody ready to answer questions... love it. Ed

Shameless plug for HHC2009 Was: Seriously; You are the best! Message #25 Posted by Allen on 6 Mar 2009, 8:55 p.m., in response to message #1 by Geir Isene I generally agree. One thing that a truly enjoyed was meeting several of the forum members at HHC2008 last year. That really helped me put a face to many of the respected members here, and with infamous HP developers like Cyrille (Vive la France), and restoration experts like Geoff (Vive la Canada), and local Algorithm experts like Namir (Vive la Solution)- and of course the expert curator Dave (Vive la DVD!). Hope I can go this year and meet more folks. I also met some of the authors whose books I've been reading about in the Educalc Catalog ever since I was a kid: Joe Horn (and his brother), James Donnelly, and Wlodek J. (A Great presentation on Tensors!) My wife is convinced that Calculator addiction is a solitary event, I disagree... we have a wonderful support group, and although I'm probably 1 (or more) sigma below the average forum age, I still have had a HP calculator more than half my life. FWIW, I'm thinking of returning to graduate School sometime soon, and participating here in the forum (especially the challenges) has interested me in Algorithm development and Computer Science in General.

Re: Shameless plug for HHC2009 Was: Seriously; You are the best! Message #26 Posted by Geoff Quickfall on 6 Mar 2009, 9:56 p.m., in response to message #25 by Allen I could not have said it better Alan, Putting faces to names and places was fantastic. I will see you next year in Vancouver, Washington. The graduate school idea is wonderful and a great experience, especially if self directed towards a dissertation. My connections here and the friends that I have made have also inspired me to return to grad school. Another chance to get the HP41CX and HPIL to aid in data crunching. Cheers, Geoff Edited: 6 Mar 2009, 10:03 p.m.

Re: Shameless plug for HHC2009 Was: Seriously; You are the best! Message #27 Posted by David Hayden on 6 Mar 2009, 10:10 p.m., in response to message #25 by Allen Quote: FWIW, I'm thinking of returning to graduate School sometime soon, and participating here in the forum (especially the challenges) has interested me in Algorithm development and Computer Science in General. Hi Allen! I"m a professional computer programmer with nearly 25 years experience and I really love it (have ever since I was a young teen). If you'd like some input from the trenches, feel free to email me. If you're interested in numerical algorithms, you can browse the 1992 version of Numerical Recipes in C here: http://www.nrbook.com/a/bookcpdf.php In fact, I'll assign you a homework problem :) Browse the book and pose a challenge here on the forum! Dave

Re: Shameless plug for HHC2009 Was: Seriously; You are the best! Message #28 Posted by Les Bell on 7 Mar 2009, 12:50 a.m., in response to message #25 by Allen Quote: FWIW, I'm thinking of returning to graduate School sometime soon, and participating here in the forum (especially the challenges) has interested me in Algorithm development and Computer Science in General. Do it, Allen! I went back at the age of 50, and am now well into my PhD. I wish I'd done it much, much sooner, but I'm hugely glad that I'm doing it in the end. Best, --- Les [http://www.lesbell.com.au]

Re: Seriously; You are the best Message #29 Posted by PeterP on 6 Mar 2009, 11:00 p.m., in response to message #1 by Geir Isene I couldn't agree more with what is said. When I started getting into HP calcs a few years back I was the totally new kid on the block. This forum's member where and continue to be great teachers who's willingness to help is only outshine by their incredible knowledge and experience. It has given me hours and hours of pleasure in learning new things and it is next to my email probably the site I visit most often. A very warm-felt thanks to David for making this forum available to us and keeping the hp spirit alive (can't wait for the next version of his DVD...) Cheers Peter

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