HP Forum Archive 18

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eBay strike survey Message #1 Posted by Mad Dog ebaycalcnut on 15 Feb 2008, 7:27 p.m. So, Who here is going to avoid participating as a buyer or seller during strike week? In other words, who is gonna be a "scab"???? Even though I believe the strike is a waste of time, I myself will honor it. I will not be bidding or buy-it-now'ing during that week.

Re: eBay strike survey ("scab"?) Message #2 Posted by Karl Schneider on 15 Feb 2008, 11:33 p.m., in response to message #1 by Mad Dog ebaycalcnut Quote: Who here is going to avoid participating as a buyer or seller during strike week? In other words, who is gonna be a "scab"???? MD, it's a bit confusing the way you phrased that. A "scab" is a derisive slang term for strikebreaker: either a replacement worker hired by the company, or possibly an employee who defies the union's strike order and is allowed to work by the company. Thus, one who refrains from buying or selling on eBay would be a strike-honorer, not a scab. However, since there is no official, recognized union of eBay sellers, there's no such thing as a strikebreaker/scab. There will be only boycotters and non-boycotters of eBay's services. Quote: Even though I believe the strike is a waste of time, I myself will honor it. I will not be bidding or buy-it-now'ing during that week. So, which eBay name should we not be looking for next week in our quest for HP calc items? ;-) -- KS Edited: 16 Feb 2008, 1:39 a.m.

Re: eBay strike survey Message #3 Posted by reth on 16 Feb 2008, 1:00 a.m., in response to message #1 by Mad Dog ebaycalcnut What makes you think here is an ebayer's hangout? I for one find these ebay related postings here quite inappropriate and annoying.

Re: eBay strike survey Message #4 Posted by Maximilian Hohmann on 16 Feb 2008, 4:33 a.m., in response to message #3 by reth Good Morning! Quote: I for one find these ebay related postings here quite inappropriate and annoying. About as inappropriate and annoying as those on skin colour and religious beliefs of calculator fans... (sorry, coudn't resist!). Regardning the original question: Luckily, neither the new rules nor the strike have made their way to Europe yet, but I will certainly watch American eBay closely during the next day, in case the buyers take their strike seriuosly :-) Greetings, Max

Re: eBay strike survey Message #5 Posted by jbssm on 16 Feb 2008, 5:14 a.m., in response to message #4 by Maximilian Hohmann Quote: Regardning the original question: Luckily, neither the new rules nor the strike have made their way to Europe yet, but I will certainly watch American eBay closely during the next day, in case the buyers take their strike seriuosly :-) Ooo, I didn't knew that, I thought it would be also in Europe (everywhere). So this means, European buyers and sellers will get to keep their feedback for more than 1 year then? ... at least for now.

Re: eBay strike survey Message #6 Posted by Maximilian Hohmann on 16 Feb 2008, 7:34 a.m., in response to message #5 by jbssm Hello! Quote: So this means, European buyers and sellers will get to keep their feedback for more than 1 year then? ... at least for now. At least for now... The changes to the rules in the U.S. next week have been announced here vaguely as "sometime during the next months". Whatever that means. Next week, only some minor changes to the fees will be introduced. Greetings, Max

Re: eBay strike survey Message #7 Posted by jbssm on 16 Feb 2008, 8:31 a.m., in response to message #6 by Maximilian Hohmann Thank you Max, can you direct us to the page where it talks about the changes for Europe? I was searching but I only found it about USA. If it's in English or Spanish better, but French and Italian would be fine ... at least for me, sorry for the other members.

Re: eBay strike survey Message #8 Posted by Maximilian Hohmann on 16 Feb 2008, 12:15 p.m., in response to message #7 by jbssm Hello! Quote: can you direct us to the page where it talks about the changes for Europe? I have checked eBay France, eBay Italy and eBay UK and they do not even mention coming changes! Only eBay Germany talks about it (sorry, German language only...): http://pages.ebay.de/help/feedback/feedback-changes.html (The news/announcements are listed under "Community") Greetings, Max

Re: eBay strike survey Message #9 Posted by jbssm on 16 Feb 2008, 4:58 p.m., in response to message #8 by Maximilian Hohmann Thank you Max, I will put it in google translator.

Re: eBay strike survey Message #10 Posted by reth on 16 Feb 2008, 9:16 p.m., in response to message #4 by Maximilian Hohmann Quote: About as inappropriate and annoying as those on skin colour and religious beliefs of calculator fans... (sorry, coudn't resist!). so asking someone you can't physically see about the colour of their skin or religious beliefs is wrong? Why, are there people who are ashame of the way they are born? I didn't think so. Did you? cheers, reth

Re: eBay strike survey Message #11 Posted by Maximilian Hohmann on 17 Feb 2008, 5:57 a.m., in response to message #10 by reth Hello! Quote: so asking someone you can't physically see about the colour of their skin or religious beliefs is wrong? Why, are there people who are ashame of the way they are born? I didn't think so. Did you? Personally, I do not think there is anything wrong in asking questions! No matter what the questions are and wether they are related to the topic or not. For me, personally, collecting things (or being interested in certain topics) is not only related to the things themselves but also to my fellow collectors and whatever else I have in common with them. If one could add a photo to the user profile on this forum, I wouldn't mind to do so. But over time, I also have come to respect the wish for privacy that some people have. To give away only what is strictly necessary to talk about a clearly defined topic, with no aberration that could reveal something of them, they rather want to keep for themselves. Negotiating your way through those two extremes (the talkative and the zipped-up) sometimes requires a lot of diplomacy... Greetings, Max

Re: eBay strike survey Message #12 Posted by Mad Dog ebaycalcnut on 17 Feb 2008, 9:43 a.m., in response to message #10 by reth People should never be ashamed of how they are born. It is only inappropriate in this forum (IMHO) because this forum is not about what color skin or faith people have. And if this forum was only viewed by those of us with RPN addictions, no problem. I am assuming none of us care at all about those issues. What about google searches and if outsiders start taking over this board to make it a race board if they see posts about that stuff? Some people feel I am quite irritating with my observations of the unmentionable auction website, but at least it has something to do with HP calculators. Imagine if outsiders start throwing in racial/religious stuff. I do not care if you are black, white, green, purple, or plaid. I do not care if you are Athiest, Buddhist, Christian, Hindu, Jewish, Muslim or Zoroastrian. I do not care if you are gay or straight. I do not care if you are Conservative, Liberal, NDP, Green, Democrat, Republican, Socialist, Communist, or Anarchist. I DO care about accuracy and consiceness in auction listings for calculators. However, I will ask one thing along OT lines. How many people here wear glasses??? I imagine a majority of us do.

glasses Message #13 Posted by bill platt on 17 Feb 2008, 3:02 p.m., in response to message #12 by Mad Dog ebaycalcnut Not me. And this "strike" thing and the whole topic is inane.

Re: eBay strike survey Message #14 Posted by Jorge Amodio on 18 Feb 2008, 1:29 a.m., in response to message #12 by Mad Dog ebaycalcnut Quote: I DO care about accuracy and consiceness in auction listings for calculators. Now that we are asking questions, then if you care so much why all the anonymous postings ? I have a really bad thing with people that criticize others and don't have the courage to do it using her/his real names. Even when in some circumnstances you may have a point it's very hard to take you seriously, much more if you are "Mad" and "nut". My .02 Edited: 18 Feb 2008, 1:30 a.m.

Calc-mut : hungry for attention Message #15 Posted by Allen on 18 Feb 2008, 9:33 p.m., in response to message #14 by Jorge Amodio Quote: I DO care about accuracy and consiceness in auction listings for calculators. Regrettably this is not true. If his goal were listing accuracy he would dialog with the sellers as we have encouraged him to, thus making anonymous postings would be a last resort (if needed at all). NO! His purpose here is to get attention and he uses ebay auction complaints to do so, is a means to an end, certainly not his primary desire. I offer an example to support my hypothesis: Let the readers of this forum observe that the majority of Calc-mut's postings are edited. His responses frequently begin more inflammatory, and if no responses are garnered within a moderate time, the posting is edited (I suspect to prevent removal by Dave Hicks as he thankfully did with Calc-mut's comments in this discussion). Already this year I have seen messages against me personally whose content was replaced several times with completely different material. (As was the case with the postings above before they were deleted.) The archives will only see only the final 'nicer' version, however the former versions were caustic, offensive, immature, defamatory,harassing , and inaccurate. Add anonymous to the recipe and you get an inappropriate insult to the best calculator community alive today. How much more will it take to place Calc-mut in violation of the MoHP terms of use? edited to correct link per Karl's request Edited: 19 Feb 2008, 8:10 p.m. after one or more responses were posted

(deleted post) Message #16 Posted by deleted on 19 Feb 2008, 2:19 a.m., in response to message #15 by Allen This Message was deleted. This empty message preserves the threading when a post with followup(s) is deleted. If all followups have been removed, the original poster may delete this post again to make this placeholder disappear.

(deleted post) Message #17 Posted by deleted on 19 Feb 2008, 7:40 a.m., in response to message #16 by deleted This Message was deleted. This empty message preserves the threading when a post with followup(s) is deleted. If all followups have been removed, the original poster may delete this post again to make this placeholder disappear.

(deleted post) Message #18 Posted by deleted on 19 Feb 2008, 6:08 p.m., in response to message #17 by deleted This Message was deleted. This empty message preserves the threading when a post with followup(s) is deleted. If all followups have been removed, the original poster may delete this post again to make this placeholder disappear.

Re: Calc-mut : hungry for attention Message #19 Posted by Mad Dog ebaycalcnut on 20 Feb 2008, 8:47 a.m., in response to message #15 by Allen Thanks Allen! I totally forgot about the discussion where I was talking about eating a TI-30 in a car and getting sick from it. Maybe HP-10C's would indeed taste better, except the originator of that thread (not me) seemed to imply that they were the worst thing to hit mankind since bubonic plague. Thanks for reminding me of the rest of that thread!!! As for the rest of your comments slamming me, if I may borrow a statement that the originator of that thread (again, not me) used in that same thread: Oh, ppppttttthhh.

Re: eBay strike survey Message #20 Posted by George Bailey (Bedford Falls) on 19 Feb 2008, 3:31 a.m., in response to message #14 by Jorge Amodio Quote: Now that we are asking questions, then if you care so much why all the anonymous postings ? Some use more real sounding names in this forum, some don't. We don't have a way to verify if the names are real!. As long as every nick in this forum is unique and only the original owner of the nick can use it, I don't wish to know if the person is called the same in real life and I don't care. I enjoy Valentin's, Egan's, Karl's and everybody else's posts - doesn't matter to me if they are really called Valentin, Egan, Karl or even 'everybody else'. If one 'Ramses', 'Jack-in-the-box' or 'Robin Hood' would post mini challenges - so what?

Re: eBay strike survey Message #21 Posted by Jorge Amodio on 19 Feb 2008, 9:26 a.m., in response to message #20 by George Bailey (Bedford Falls) Quote: I enjoy Valentin's, Egan's, Karl's and everybody else's posts - doesn't matter to me if they are really called Valentin, Egan, Karl or even 'everybody else'. If one 'Ramses', 'Jack-in-the-box' or 'Robin Hood' would post mini challenges - so what? George, I agree with you and I really don't care if George is your real name or not, or if there is somebody posting good messages as the "Little Mermaid". What I mean is, IMHO, it doesn't talk good about a person that hides behind the anonymity of a nick and keeps complaining, whining and criticizing other people and the only things she/he is contributing to the forum is to increase the noise/signal ratio and create animosity between forum members. I've been participating in many on-line forums for very long time, I've to admit that I recently joined this forum due to my interest in the HP Series 80 and some other old HP calculators. So far I've been impressed with the information exchange, cooperation and the high quality content of most of the messages in the forum, regardless of the user names. Since the early days, the Internet has given common interest groups the ability and power to "self regulate", there was always an explicit and implicit "net etiquette", then the best way to keep this forum as good as it is and make it better is to point out when somebody is going beyond the acceptable Terms of Use or common sense. My .02 Regards Jorge Edited: 19 Feb 2008, 10:20 a.m.

Re: eBay strike survey Message #22 Posted by Stefan Vorkoetter on 19 Feb 2008, 8:45 p.m., in response to message #20 by George Bailey (Bedford Falls) The problem with nicknames is that a single person can hide behind more than one of them. I belong to a group which had a member for a while who routinely posted under four different real-sounding names. He would espouse something totally ludicrous under one name, and then several of the other names would jump in and back him up. This was worse than just annoying or misleading, since the subject matter was the design and construction of home-built aircraft, and following some of his advice could easily prove fatal. Stefan

Re: eBay strike survey Message #23 Posted by George Bailey (Bedford Falls) on 20 Feb 2008, 12:48 a.m., in response to message #22 by Stefan Vorkoetter Stefan, Jorge, you're both absolutely right. BUT - there is no way to tell if you ARE Stefan and Jorge! Or maybe you are one person, called Bill in real life - who knows! We will just all have to trust each other - and live with the few who don't play by the rules of confidence.

Re: eBay strike survey Message #24 Posted by Jorge Amodio on 20 Feb 2008, 10:11 a.m., in response to message #23 by George Bailey (Bedford Falls) Quote: BUT - there is no way to tell if you ARE Stefan and Jorge! Sure there is. I'm old and mature enough with an extensive career behind me, and I don't have multiple personality disorder or hide behind funny nicknames. You can google my name, go to http://www.amodio.biz/, stop by the Microchip Users Forum, Parallax Users Forum, Yahoo HP Series 80 Users Group, Neowin forum, Circuit Cellar, Electro-Tech online forum, The Vintage Computer forum, facebook, linkedin and many other pesky recent network sites, and who knows where else. I don't expect other folks to have the same "online presence" and as I said before I really don't care much if your real name is George or not, as you said we participate here and share information on a basic principle of trust. My actions and the contents of my messages will speak for me, now if you believe who I am or not, is up to you. Best Regards Jorge

Re: eBay strike survey Message #25 Posted by Massimo Gnerucci (Italy) on 20 Feb 2008, 12:19 p.m., in response to message #24 by Jorge Amodio Quote: (...)The Vintage Computer forum, facebook, linkedin and many other pesky recent network sites, and who knows where else Just curious: how many of you are on LinkedIn, like Jorge and me? Greetings, Massimo

Re: eBay strike survey Message #26 Posted by George Bailey (Bedford Falls) on 20 Feb 2008, 1:55 p.m., in response to message #24 by Jorge Amodio Quote: ...now if you believe who I am or not, is up to you. That's the point: I have to believe you, it's all a matter of trust. And I DO believe you - I have no reason why I should not do so! BUT again: googleing your (nick-)name will only prove that there is (at least) one person out there in real life with this nice name and this very extensive career. It will not prove that the user of the nick is also the owner of that real life name...;-) BTW the grey-bearded-Jorge on http://www.amodio.biz/jorge/ sitting in front of his NASA desktop looks best ;-) Edited: 20 Feb 2008, 2:05 p.m.

Re: eBay strike survey Message #27 Posted by Jorge Amodio on 20 Feb 2008, 5:22 p.m., in response to message #26 by George Bailey (Bedford Falls) Quote: BUT again: googleing your (nick-)name will only prove that there is (at least) one person out there in real life with this nice name and this very extensive career. You are right, and on the other hand you can get surprised by some results, for example I didn't know that there was a George Bailey detention facility in San Diego or that he was the character played by Bobby Anderson in the "It's a wonderful life" movie :-). Quote: BTW the grey-bearded-Jorge on http://www.amodio.biz/jorge/ sitting in front of his NASA desktop looks best ;-) I've to get rid of the beard, my kids were complaining too much. Yes, besides HP and other mental disabilities I'm a Nasa freak. Great landing by Atlantis this morning, hope the navy folks don't miss the satellite tonight ... Cheers Jorge

Re: eBay strike survey Message #28 Posted by Raymond Del Tondo on 20 Feb 2008, 7:22 p.m., in response to message #27 by Jorge Amodio As you mentionned 'Wonderful Life', you should at least _see_ that the person who hides behind 'George Bailey (Bedford Falls)' actually gives a hint that he uses a pseudo because according to wikipedia, Bedford Falls is a fictional city. Fictional Bedford Falls Some time ago, there was a related thread, and there will be related threads in the future. My opinion regarding pseudonyms is clear: Using pseudos is childish, especially in this non-commercial, non-political, non-religious, non-... _calculator_ forum. Grow up!

Re: eBay strike survey Message #29 Posted by Jorge Amodio on 20 Feb 2008, 7:42 p.m., in response to message #28 by Raymond Del Tondo Quote: Grow up! Ditto !!! BTW, I've seen the movie several times ...

Re: eBay strike survey Message #30 Posted by Raymond Del Tondo on 21 Feb 2008, 12:14 a.m., in response to message #29 by Jorge Amodio Maybe it was somewhat out of the context, but I didn't mean you with the last sentence...sorry if there was any confusion. I meant those individuals who think it's funny to hide behind a pseudo.

Re: eBay strike survey Message #31 Posted by George Bailey (Bedford Falls) on 21 Feb 2008, 12:32 p.m., in response to message #30 by Raymond Del Tondo Quote: I meant those individuals who think it's funny to hide behind a pseudo. Pseudos in the internet are not used because they are funny, but because they are a bare necessity! The internet is not like going to a pub meeting friends - who for sure all know each others name. But my being in the bar can not be googled and linked to various other facts about my life. No brewing company does know what beer I drank and flood my post box with ads. Posting on an internet site with my real name makes it available to the whole world. Everybody can find out that I like calculators and can try to sell me his. Everybody can find out I might have high blood pressure or have financial problems or my marriage goes down the drain or I seeked psychiatric help or am secretly homosexual - well, everything. A future employer might find that interesting. A possible business partner might draw negative conclusions from what he found - be it the truth or not. In real life, I don't tell everybody that I ever meet everything about me. According to various degrees of trust I go to different degrees of fact telling. On the internet, you can not vary this degree of trust: 6 billion people can all find the same facts about you - and can combine them from all kinds of sources. I don't want that to be possible.

[OT] Re: The secret identity of us all (was the ebay strike thread) Message #32 Posted by Jorge Amodio on 21 Feb 2008, 2:36 p.m., in response to message #31 by George Bailey (Bedford Falls) Hmmm, "Curiosity Killed The Cat" ... you already visited my website :-), if you don't want to be found just unplug your modem and dig a hole. Now seriously, not sure if this is the most appropiate forum but this is an interesting subject I've been discussing with some friends and collegues. How much information about yourself is good or not to put online. It's better just to leave a void and let the new data mining robots going on, create an incorrect profile or really take yourself control of your "online persona" ? What do you think ? Cheers Jorge

Re: [OT] Re: The secret identity of us all (was the ebay strike thread) Message #33 Posted by George Bailey (Bedford Falls) on 21 Feb 2008, 3:13 p.m., in response to message #32 by Jorge Amodio Quote: ...really take yourself control of your "online persona" ? I don't think it's possible to take appropriate control of your online persona. Possible only to a very limited extent. If my online persona only deals with calculators, maybe the limit to which I can push the control is quite high. The same with any other topic that I would speak in public about. But as soon as it is a topic that I would like to keep private (medical condition, calc addiction ;-) , sexual behaviour, political affiliation etc.), I don't want it to be traceable to my real persona. And I can even imagine facts about a person that are totally boring each by itself, but if you combine them they might shed a negative light upon that person.

Re: eBay strike survey Message #34 Posted by Ron G. on 21 Feb 2008, 3:31 p.m., in response to message #31 by George Bailey (Bedford Falls) I agree, George. I personally know someone who had his reputation severely damaged, by letting the whole world have a little too much of his personal information, by posting his real name online. I don't really have that much to hide (that I can remember anyway), but I try to keep all personal informantion as close as I reasonably can, while still maintaining online functionality.

Re: eBay strike survey Message #35 Posted by Bill Platt on 20 Feb 2008, 7:44 p.m., in response to message #28 by Raymond Del Tondo Hi Raymond! But the funny thing about names is that some of us have common ones. You can google me, but you'll be in the 21st century version of "Will the Real Mr. Platt Please Stand Up!"

Re: eBay strike survey Message #36 Posted by Raymond Del Tondo on 21 Feb 2008, 12:21 a.m., in response to message #35 by Bill Platt Hi Bill, yes, I remember I once fell into that trap, when asking an hpmuseum forum poster John Smith to reveal his real name. Regards Raymond

[OT] The secret identity of us all (was the ebay strike thread) Message #37 Posted by Jorge Amodio on 21 Feb 2008, 8:59 a.m., in response to message #36 by Raymond Del Tondo Was it "Agent Smith" ? :-), it reminds me of a friend that was trying to convince me that he was dating a "Jane D" girl and pulled a picture of a famous acress of that time. I told him, "yeah I know her, she is from the Doe family". Raymond, about your previous comment, don't worry I really understood what you were trying to say and to whom it was directed. And to save some electrons, following up on Massimo question, I joined linkedIn long time ago because a friend sent me a message, now I'm getting bombarded by Plaxo, Xing, NotchUp, zoominfo and few others that are trying to replicate the same model with few variants. Cheers Jorge Edited: 21 Feb 2008, 9:22 a.m.

I have CANCELLED all of my auctions on ebay Message #38 Posted by Mike on 18 Feb 2008, 11:37 a.m., in response to message #1 by Mad Dog ebaycalcnut I have CANCELLED all of my auctions on ebay. I have no problem supporting the boycott, even though it really doesn't make much difference to me either way. I have moved, at least temporarily to: OnlineAuction. That site is being overwhelmed by traffic and the connections are very slow (30 to 40 seconds). But at $96 per year, for unlimited selling and buying, with no listing fees or final value fees, this site has the right formula. AND, for founding members (1st million), there fees are guaranteed NEVER to change for life. Well worth the small cost to support it. For anyone signing up at that auction site, you can enter my promotional code of: 32694AAA Edited: 18 Feb 2008, 5:33 p.m.

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