HP Forum Archive 16

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Entering commands from the command line ... Message #1 Posted by Richard Payne on 7 Feb 2007, 8:35 a.m. As it is obious from the question I am asking, I am a new HP50G user. Despite the negative thoughts over the net about the steep learning curve of HP calculators, I believed in the words of dedicated HP users about its' being a good helper in long term. Some people also warned me about the poor documentation but I wasn't expecting this. When you are actually reading the manuals, it is the time when you are desperate to do something really bad and really fast. With the pressure of not being able to how to do something by yourself, you try to find the right chapeter for your problem. This bad feeling is inversely proportional to the difficulty of the problem, you are dealing with. For example, if you are trying to enter a sipmle command, say KEYTIME, and you couldn't figure out the right syntax or how to enter it, you may get really mad. Can somebody please give me the page number in the owners manual where it explains how to enter commands from the command line like KEYTIME and prove that I am just lazy enough not to go though the users' manual intensively... Rich...

Re: Entering commands from the command line ... Message #2 Posted by Ron Ross on 7 Feb 2007, 9:23 a.m., in response to message #1 by Richard Payne First you did not state whether you are an RPN or algebraic user. Next I would suggest you turn OFF your clock (this is/was still buggy and affect key entry more than the keytime setting from MY OWN experience). Keytime as well as all variables are entered differently, depending on which mode (RPN vs algebraic) you are in. The sorry manual that comes with standard with the Hp50G assumes you are in algebraic mode. However it is easier to enter and change configuration if you are in RPN (being an Hp48G user, that is my preferred entry method). If you do convert over to RPN (and I strongly suggest you do, as the Hp50G is actually a rebuilt HP48G with algebraic tossed in for marketing purposes to expand a sales base). And after you select RPN mode, set flag 117, then you enter 'keytime' on the command line, enter a number such as 550, then hit your [sto] key and that should enter your new keytime value. After you have done this, go to Hpcalc.org and download the Hp48G manual. This is a much better document for the Hp50g than the even the included one on your CD for quick reference. It has nothing about the CAS, but everything else will apply. Any information you find on the Hp48G, Hp49G and Hp49G+ are all valid for your Hp50G aside from minor deviations do to ROM upgrades.

Re: Entering commands from the command line ... Message #3 Posted by Richard Payne on 7 Feb 2007, 9:54 a.m., in response to message #2 by Ron Ross I have this 50g for 3 days now and I am trying to get used to RPN. So far, so good. I would never imagine getting used to this way of entry in such a short time but using a standard calculator seems awkward right now. During my research I have read about the ease of using soft menus therefore I have already altered flag 117. Well, "store" was the only key left which I haven't tried. I have entered "550" and then "keytime" and then hit store button and this time instead of a nasty beep I have received silence, which was good. I will take your word and surely download the 48G manual. It was very annoying trying to search "keytime" in the owners manual of HP 50G and receive zero hits! Thanks, Rich...

Re: Entering commands from the command line ... Message #4 Posted by Ron Ross on 7 Feb 2007, 9:57 a.m., in response to message #3 by Richard Payne 'keytime' 550 [sto] That is the way it should probably be entered onto the stack.

Re: MY MISTAKE... Message #5 Posted by Ron Ross on 7 Feb 2007, 10:00 a.m., in response to message #4 by Ron Ross MY BAD. Your entry method is correct.

Re: I'm Confused... Message #6 Posted by Gerry Schultz on 7 Feb 2007, 6:44 p.m., in response to message #5 by Ron Ross After reading this thread, I dug out my 49g+ and played around with the keytime function and could not get it to work. I was in RPN mode, set flag 117 and turned off the clock with no change. My 49g+ is running version HP-49-C Revision #2.09, the same as my 50G. I did a catalog and found a function "->keytime" to set the key delay and "keytime->" to report the present key delay. Using those functions, I can adjust my keytime without using the store function. Put in the number, Enter, "->keytime" and it's set. There is no catalog listing for "keytime." Why the difference? Gerry

Re: Entering commands from the command line ... Message #7 Posted by James M. Prange (Michigan) on 7 Feb 2007, 4:06 p.m., in response to message #1 by Richard Payne Assuming that your 50g is in RPN mode, where "\->" represents the "right arrow" character (RightShifted 0 key), key in something like 512 \->KEYTIME and then press ENTER. Note that everything is case sensitive in the RPL calculators. Any "real number" or "exact integer" can be used for the \->KEYTIME argument, but what's actually stored will be an integer value from 0 through 4096. To check the stored value, execute the KEYTIME\-> command. The KEYTIME value is the number of ticks (1 second = 8192 ticks) before another press of the same key is considered valid. If you don't have the Advanced User's Reference Manual, then download it from http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=6374 Regards, James

Re: Entering commands from the command line ... Message #8 Posted by Richard Payne on 7 Feb 2007, 6:41 p.m., in response to message #7 by James M. Prange (Michigan) After keying in what Ron told me I've realized that I've only generated a variable named "keytime" and assigned the integer 550 to it, which was not what I wanted. It was a relief that I haven't heard that nasty beep though. In RPN mode however I have typed exactly 550 (right shift) (zero key) KEYTIME ENTER and I have received a nasty beep following "Invalid Syntax" error. The good old 48G Users' Guide didn't help either. I have searched the command in Appendix G "Operation Index" where it is claimed all the operations are listed in 48 series and there is no sign of KEYTIME. I have tried (in RPN mode) -> KEYTIME(550) (What it says in the Advanced User's Guide:��KEYTIME(real) (sets keyboard debounce delay from 0 to 4096 ticks)) 550 -> KEYTIME KEYTIME->(550) KEYTIME->500 (also doesn't cause an error but nothing changes) -> KEYTIME '550' (also doesn't cause an error but nothing changes) Is my calculator in a mode which doesn't allow this command to run properly? And my last question, does this have to be so hard? I mean this calculator isn't about just running one single command but people are trying to help me on this very simple subject and yet we have miss guidences, errors and still couldn't get on with it? Does it have to be this hard? I feel so depressed with this user interface allready. Rich...

Re: Entering commands from the command line ... Message #9 Posted by Ron Ross on 7 Feb 2007, 7:41 p.m., in response to message #8 by Richard Payne Sorry to misinform. However, ARE you having problems with the keyboard. The default should be fine until you become ultra proficient with keyboarding. You have a lot of other things to get familiar with. The Keytime command was abandoned on some ROM versions. I believe it is back, but I never set it on my own HP 50G. I did set it on an earlier HP49G+, but as you can plainly see, I cannot remember either. I will investigate and get back to you if someone doesn't intervene with the correct solution shortly.

Re: Entering commands from the command line ... Message #10 Posted by James M. Prange (Michigan) on 7 Feb 2007, 7:55 p.m., in response to message #8 by Richard Payne Quote: In RPN mode however I have typed exactly 550 (right shift) (zero key) KEYTIME ENTER and I have received a nasty beep following "Invalid Syntax" error. Note that \-> is itself a command, so, except when in ALPHA mode, RightShift 0 adds a space character after the \-> character, which would account for the "Invalid Syntax" error. To avoid having the space added, first press the ALPHA key, then the RightShift 0, and of course enter the command line by pressing ENTER. To set the KEYTIME value to 550, try this sequence of keystrokes: [5] [5] [0] [SPC] [ALPHA] [RightShift] [0] [K] [E] [Y] [T] [I] [M] [E] [ENTER] To check the current KEYTIME value, try this sequence: [ALPHA] [K] [E] [Y] [T] [I] [M] [E] [RightShift] [0] [ENTER] Quote: The good old 48G Users' Guide didn't help either. I have searched the command in Appendix G "Operation Index" where it is claimed all the operations are listed in 48 series and there is no sign of KEYTIME. Of course, because the \->KEYTIME and KEYTIME\-> commands weren't added until the 49G. Note that in early 49g+ ROM revisions, the KEYTIME value had no effect (although the commands could still be used), but since there seemed to be key-bounce problems, it was restored in later ROM revisions. It works in the current revision, and in all revisions released for the 50g. Quote: I have tried (in RPN mode) -> KEYTIME(550) (What it says in the Advanced User's Guide:�"KEYTIME(real) (sets keyboard debounce delay from 0 to 4096 ticks)) 550 -> KEYTIME KEYTIME->(550) KEYTIME->500 (also doesn't cause an error but nothing changes) -> KEYTIME '550' (also doesn't cause an error but nothing changes) Well, these are commands, not functions, so algebraic syntax (parenthesized arguments after the command name) won't work, at least not in RPN mode. Also, be sure to avoid the space between the right arrow and KEYTIME. Also note that the KEYTIME\-> doesn't take any argument; it simply returns the current KEYTIME value. Quote: Is my calculator in a mode which doesn't allow this command to run properly? I don't believe that there's any mode that would cause that, although ALG mode would require different syntax. Quote: And my last question, does this have to be so hard? I mean this calculator isn't about just running one single command but people are trying to help me on this very simple subject and yet we have miss guidences, errors and still couldn't get on with it? Does it have to be this hard? I feel so depressed with this user interface allready. No, it doesn't have to be hard at all; I've always found RPL to be very easy and intuitive. That said, the poor documentation is a problem. Regards, James

Re: Entering commands from the command line ... Message #11 Posted by Richard Payne on 8 Feb 2007, 12:00 p.m., in response to message #10 by James M. Prange (Michigan) Hello James, Quote: Also, be sure to avoid the space between the right arrow and KEYTIME. First of all thank you very much for your detailed explanation which doesn't leave a single question mark after reading. I wish all the documents were written in such a simple way. But I suspect that it is very hard to prepare a manual this simple, since it requires knowing the device very well with all aspects. The centence in the quote above solved my problem. You can never think of deleting the space character which is automatically placed by the calculator itself while typing. When you are new to a calculator you expect the native behaivour of its' operating system understands what you are doing and responding the way to ease your job. In this exercise HP shot me from behind, however the sad part is, I don't know which hidden secret will show up next. Thank you all Rich...

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