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HP Forum Archive 16

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(deleted post)
Message #1 Posted by deleted on 22 Dec 2006, 12:19 p.m.

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Re: Even Coburlin would not do what Hudendai did
Message #2 Posted by Namir on 22 Dec 2006, 1:25 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by deleted

I don't find the wording misleading. The auction states in red letters that the price is per item. Also the auction states that there are 2 available. I did not get the impression that I am getting multiple items for a single price. So relax and enjoy the holiday season.

Namir

            
(deleted post)
Message #3 Posted by deleted on 23 Dec 2006, 3:32 p.m.,
in response to message #2 by Namir

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Re: IS THIS ANOTHER MISLEADING HUDENDAI AUCTION ???
Message #4 Posted by Don Shepherd on 23 Dec 2006, 7:21 p.m.,
in response to message #3 by deleted

His ad says "assume that it is not working".

His picture shows obvious corrosion.

Doesn't look to me like he is trying to pass this off as pristine.

      
Re: Even Coburlin would not do what Hudendai did
Message #5 Posted by Les Wright on 22 Dec 2006, 5:11 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by deleted

Quite fortuitous I found this thread.

This fellow wrote me directly yesterday trying to stimulate my interest in several IR printers (for the 42S, 48 series, etc.) he was selling. He quoted me in the $60 to $160 range plus shipping. Considering I have seen these things go for much lower than this in recent weeks, this pricing didn't smell right....

Les

Edited: 22 Dec 2006, 5:11 p.m.

            
Re: Even Coburlin would not do what Hudendai did
Message #6 Posted by Stinger on 22 Dec 2006, 5:15 p.m.,
in response to message #5 by Les Wright

Les,

FWIW, I bought a brand new boxed model in October for $50 on eBay.

Stinger

                  
Re: Even Coburlin would not do what Hudendai did
Message #7 Posted by Les Wright on 22 Dec 2006, 5:40 p.m.,
in response to message #6 by Stinger

That's precisely what I have been seeing!

Les

            
Coburlin and Hudendai.... Thanks but no thanks
Message #8 Posted by ebaycalcnut on 22 Dec 2006, 8:08 p.m.,
in response to message #5 by Les Wright

Yeah, Hudendai has defended himself on the board before.

I think of Hudendai as Coburlin II. Different, but really not much, if any, better. More reasonable prices than Coburlin, though still ridiculous. I have suspected Hudendai's marketing techniques. At least Coburlin doesn't try tricks and pushiness on buyers to sell (other than those super-ridiculous Coburlin auctions).

                  
Re: Coburlin and Hudendai.... Thanks but no thanks
Message #9 Posted by Namir on 22 Dec 2006, 8:28 p.m.,
in response to message #8 by ebaycalcnut

If you follow calculator auctions you will find SEVERAL eBay sellers (and I mean SEVERAL) who are selling items at high prices. eBay gives them the privilege to do so. It is up to the buyers to pay or not pay these premium prices. Often, these sellers relist the items (sometimes several times) in hope of having a novice eBay member buy them. The real winner here is eBay and eBay stock holders. Do what I did. Buy eBay stocks and applaud these sellers who are making money for eBay and FOR YOU TOO -- one way or another.

Edited: 22 Dec 2006, 8:29 p.m.

                        
(deleted post)
Message #10 Posted by deleted on 22 Dec 2006, 9:07 p.m.,
in response to message #9 by Namir

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Re: Coburlin and Hudendai.... Thanks but no thanks
Message #11 Posted by K on 22 Dec 2006, 10:04 p.m.,
in response to message #10 by deleted

Quote:
Hudendai is just another coburlin with different tactics.

I wouldn't say that, based on this auction. US$119 is high for an HP-48G, but if the calc's are in very good cosmetic condition and perfect functional condition, it's not unreasonable for a BIN price. (Can't say that for most of Coburlin's offerings, which are usually mediocre items at exorbitant BIN prices.)

Hudendai's offering of an HP-48GX for US$219 might be fair market value.

Still, I believe that BIN-only "auctions" don't meet the description, and they should be relegated to a special section of eBay.

Edited: 22 Dec 2006, 10:05 p.m.

                              
Re: Coburlin and Hudendai.... Thanks but no thanks
Message #12 Posted by Namir on 22 Dec 2006, 10:39 p.m.,
in response to message #10 by deleted

So how would YOU write an auction title that tells the viewer than he/she can buy more than one item?

Namir

                        
(deleted post)
Message #13 Posted by deleted on 22 Dec 2006, 10:09 p.m.,
in response to message #9 by Namir

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Re: Coburlin like auctions by Hudendai
Message #14 Posted by Namir on 22 Dec 2006, 10:53 p.m.,
in response to message #13 by deleted

Cobubba sells not-so-first class calculators at outrageous prices AND shows contempt at the people who buy. This approach makes Cobubba stand out from other sellers who sell at high prices (a good part of their items) but who are helpful and cooperative. Hundendai is not alone in this category. I see currently other sellers who are (perhaps) testing the market by asking a higher range of prices. I have bought from some of these sellers in the past and the experience was good.

As prices exceed my budget and/or how much I value auction items, I simply shy away from buying .... regardless of who is selling. There seems to be a general surge in prices right now. That trend, like the stock market, may change based on supply and demand.

Namir

                                    
(deleted post)
Message #15 Posted by deleted on 22 Dec 2006, 11:12 p.m.,
in response to message #14 by Namir

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Re: Coburlin like auctions by Hudendai
Message #16 Posted by Charles Oxford on 23 Dec 2006, 2:07 a.m.,
in response to message #15 by deleted

A "lot" is whatever is being auctioned. It can be 1 or 100.

                                                
Re: Coburlin like auctions by Hudendai
Message #17 Posted by Ron on 23 Dec 2006, 9:58 a.m.,
in response to message #16 by Charles Oxford

True. But by that definition, someone selling eight individual calculators is selling eight lots.

                              
Re: Coburlin like auctions by Hudendai
Message #18 Posted by Les Wright on 23 Dec 2006, 11:33 a.m.,
in response to message #13 by deleted

How about this this.

$45 for a battery that probably doesn't work, just because it comes in the box?

sheesh....

Les

                        
Quite true - I sell for high prices too
Message #19 Posted by Mike on 26 Dec 2006, 4:17 p.m.,
in response to message #9 by Namir

But, my items are 100% tested. I have nearly 40% repeat business (actually more because many collectors buy direct from me). It really doesn't matter if the prices are high, provided you get a quality item.

I often include a link so a potential buyer of my items, can see all the competition and compare. I have sold high priced mint items below what others sell "below average" for.

So, it's not the price, but the way they are sold and what you actually get, that counts, in my opinion.

      
Re: Even Coburlin would not do what Hudendai did
Message #20 Posted by Thomas Radtke on 23 Dec 2006, 6:14 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by deleted

Two remarks:

(1) I've seen a lot of multiple item auctions with misleading titles. Some sellers are simply not aware how potential bidders would get this. Once it was about quite cheap RAM for a Sparc Station. The seller had a good reputation and for sure won't risk that deliberately. He could have earned just a few additional bucks.

(2) Why in the world are people always selling calcs w/o manual(s)? I mean, no one throws away manuals for HP calcs. At least, not to this amount of missing manuals seen on ebay. Where are they?

            
Missing manuals (was: Even Coburlin would not do what Hudendai did)
Message #21 Posted by Walter B on 23 Dec 2006, 9:31 a.m.,
in response to message #20 by Thomas Radtke

Hi Thomas,

My answer to your 2nd question: This is because (the same or other) sellers sell a lot of manuals w/o calculators! Seems they make more profit this way than by selling the bundle.

BTW, how about your CAD activities? d;-)

Regards, Walter

            
Re: Even Coburlin would not do what Hudendai did
Message #22 Posted by Les Wright on 23 Dec 2006, 11:27 a.m.,
in response to message #20 by Thomas Radtke

Quote:
(2) Why in the world are people always selling calcs w/o manual(s)? I mean, no one throws away manuals for HP calcs. At least, not to this amount of missing manuals seen on ebay. Where are they?

My experience is that some sellers are just not "converts" like we are. They received the calcs as gifts in college 20 or so years ago, decided they didn't like RPN or didn't need a calculator "that complicated", and the thing sat in a drawer or in a storage box for the next two decades. In the process, across several changes of life and moves of residence, the manual gets separated from the the calculator, the box and the accompanying goodies get tossed, and the calc gathers dust. There are folks out there who believe that when it comes to electronics, old = obsolete = worthless, so not a lot care or consideration goes into properly storing or maintaining these things. The fellow who sold me my 11C was positively stunned that people would pay anymore than a few dollars for these things--he said he far preferred his $10 Sharp these days.

My beef is the lousy photography and the fact that what so many casual users regard as "normal" wear is actually some pretty unsightly stuff. At least Hudendai offers these huge, clear, in focus close-ups. Coburlin's pics are tiny, unfocussed, and from a distance, but he should know better than the average guy who finds one of these things in a garage and can't take a good picture.

Les

Edited: 23 Dec 2006, 11:28 a.m.

      
(deleted post)
Message #23 Posted by deleted on 23 Dec 2006, 10:19 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by deleted

This Message was deleted. This empty message preserves the threading when a post with followup(s) is deleted. If all followups have been removed, the original poster may delete this post again to make this placeholder disappear.

            
nt
Message #24 Posted by Mike on 26 Dec 2006, 4:19 p.m.,
in response to message #23 by deleted

nt

Edited: 26 Dec 2006, 4:21 p.m.

      
Re: Even Coburlin would not do what Hudendai did
Message #25 Posted by allen on 23 Dec 2006, 6:19 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by deleted

Quote:
ebaycalcnut didn't provide an email address. ebaycalcnut is not a registered user.
Don't you think it strange that the only posts on this forum with this pseudonym are ALL against hudendai, and anonymous. I donít. I believe that ebaycalcnut is either coburlin himself or worse, a critic who does not care to show us his online activities. Probably someone who was recently outbid and canít find a more adult way to express his frustration than to argue semantics such as item title and firmware version.

Quote:
People got drawn to it by thinking they will get more than one.

Um, they did get more than one. As far as ebay is concerned, there is no difference between eight lots of 1,two lots of 4, or one lot of 8. It is a multiple item auction of identical items which can be purchased at the same time for the same price and therefore is a lot.

Quote:
"Lot" does not mean individual.
In many cases, such as in real estate, "LOT" means EXACTLY 1 parcel. See google define:lot as "A parcel or a single article that is the subject matter of a separate sale or delivery..." .

Quote:
I wonder if all the calculators...were version R?

yes they were.
I have sold many things at less than fair market value. Please donít begrudge me when testing the markets (as with some you see listed now). It does not harm you in any way, and is no cause for belittling someone elseís work simply because it is not the way you would do it yourself.

Les, thanks for catching the omission in the battery pac listing. Not intentional. I have revised it to include my tests. Regarding the price, I sold two others in exactly the same condition for $49.95 earlier this year. I think a 10% discount is quite reasonable. Regarding your printer comments, see my price comparisons here and here . Neither of these come with a deluxe HP leather case or AC charger. This one here surprised me by selling at $169, why should I not list another at the same price to see if it also sells?? FYI, Please if you are going to quote me in a forum, please QUOTE me:

Quote:
...I am looking to sell several of my HP IR printers I have 2 or 3 of both the A/B models if you are interested. Prices range from $60 to 160 + shipping depending if you would like a leather case or AC adapter with it. I have a manual (hard to find) I can throw in at no charge...


Quote:
Why in the world are people always selling calcs w/o manual(s)?
1. The added shipping weight of manuals often costs more than the manual is worth, esp with priority or international shipments.
2. having a 1.5 lb manual (such as the 48GX manual) in the same box as a $200 calculator is risky unless properly packed to avoid them damaging each other.
3. Many manuals are now available online for free.



This will be my only response to this thread. If you should like to discuss any semantics further you can write my email address. Warmest Regards, and Merry Christmas!

Edited: 24 Dec 2006, 12:03 a.m. after one or more responses were posted

            
Hudendai: This 'n' that
Message #26 Posted by Karl Schneider on 23 Dec 2006, 7:44 p.m.,
in response to message #25 by allen

Quote:
Les, thanks for catching the ommission in the battery pac listing. Not intentional. I have revised it to include my tests. Regarding the price, I sold two others in exactly the same condition for $49.95 earler this year.

82120A battery that needs new cells

I'd say that US$45 is a bit high for a battery pack that needs service and probably needs new cells. The NiCd corrosion can probably be cleaned up easily, but its presence indicates that those 1980's parts have lived out their useful days. A new set of cells runs around US$30.

Quote:
Question: Why in the world are people always selling calcs w/o manual(s)?

1. The added shipping weight of manuals often costs more than the manual is worth, esp with priority or international shipments.
2. having a 1.5 lb manual (such as the 48GX manual) in the same box as a $200 calculator is risky unless properly packed to avoid them damaging each other.
3. Many manuals are now available online for free.


I'd take some issue with each of the reasons given.

1. US Priority Mail up to 1 pound is $4.05; larger parcels cost $8.10. Few manuals are worth only $4.05; if they are, the 1-pound limit can often be met.

2. If the calc is properly protected by cushioning and a firm shipping box, a manual in the same package is not a problem. I've received plenty of calc's with manuals in the same box -- one just yesterday, in fact.

3. Texas Instruments manuals (even for discontinued products) can be downloaded from their web site, but I don't think H-P is so generous. Downloading, printing double-sided, and binding large manuals is a chore. A spiral-bound lithographed HP-15C or HP-42S manual is much nicer to have.

On the last point, I believe that a minimally-complete H-P calculator package includes the manual and the slipcover or zippered case. Anything else is "icing on the cake". If the manual is in the seller's possession, it ought to be included in the auction: Many buyers would need or want the manual, which was "standard equipment". If he doesn't need it, he can re-sell it because it has value. If he needs it, he won't be pleased about having to win two separate auctions or pay high prices to an on-line store in order to get all the pieces.

-- KS

Edited: 23 Dec 2006, 7:47 p.m.

            
I'm not hidden and I agree it's misleading
Message #27 Posted by Mike on 26 Dec 2006, 4:21 p.m.,
in response to message #25 by allen

And I agree that the auction is misleading. If you put LOT in the title, there should be more than one included, otherwise, it's search engine manipulation, not to mention misleading.

And, if they aren't 100% identical, it's an illegal auctions. I have see this tactic of others and even bought from them in this kind of auction and it's very risky and misleading, as more often than not, the items aren't identical.

If they are identical, the auction should say identical

      
Re: Even Coburlin would not do what Hudendai did
Message #28 Posted by Mike on 26 Dec 2006, 4:08 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by deleted

It IS a misleading auction and ILLEGAL, unless all are identical. You may not, according to ebay, list multiple items, unless they are identical.

If the auction title says LOT, then more than one better be included. At worst it's misleading and at best it's search manipulation (also illegal). Keywords that aren't relevant to an auction make it also illegal.

I wonder if the photos was just of the best one. If any of the others, have scratches or marks, that aren't shown in the photo, it's misleading and illegal under ebay rules.

Tip: If you have to "spin" reasons why it's not misleading, don't you think that suggests misleading?

Edited: 26 Dec 2006, 4:23 p.m.

            
Re: Even Coburlin would not do what Hudendai did
Message #29 Posted by Charles Oxford on 26 Dec 2006, 9:22 p.m.,
in response to message #28 by Mike

Now we have at least two people who don't know the term auction lot. There are many meanings of "lot" so I guess we only need to pick one at random? :-)


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