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HP41 picture: the answer from HP
Message #1 Posted by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) on 17 Nov 2006, 7:37 p.m.

Hi, all;

After my complaints about the pictures of the HP41 (mentioned in an earlier thread), I received the following answer from HP today.

Quote:
Hello, Luiz,

Thank you for contacting Hewlett-Packard Company. I'm sorry you are not happy with our six-view photo of the HP-41CX. The purpose of that photo is to allow folks to print the page out, cut around the lines, and o fold the picture into a small-scale model of the original.

The hi-res photos represent an actual 41CX that is in the collection of the HP Archives. At this time we have no plans to replace these photos, as we feel they accurately represent the detail of the actual calculator.

Regards, Anna Mancini HP Archivist

I sincerely have no thoughts about this answer. What to say? I cannot agree with that, but my complaints are actually taken as not effective, because: "we have no plans to replace these photos, as we feel they accurately represent the detail of the actual calculator." And the pictures are solely intended to be printed and folded "into a small-scale model of the original.".

I´m sorry for that.

As a reference, my original message to HP was:

Quote:
Gentlemen;

I'm affraid the pictures of the venerable HP41 that were added to the pages pointed by the URL below do not reflect the grandiosity of the calculator it refers to. Note that the term 'venerable' was used by HP itself when refering to the HP41, it is not a reference I decided to add by my own. Please, make sure that there are no better photographs you could add to represent such a remarkable calculator. Many current users would be happy to provide excelent, hi-res pictures of it.

Cheers.

Luiz (Brazil)

      
Re: HP41 picture: the answer from HP
Message #2 Posted by Trent Moseley on 17 Nov 2006, 10:14 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil)

Luiz,

I am appalled by the answer to your well reasoned response to HP's photos.

tm

            
Wouldn't it be the time...
Message #3 Posted by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) on 17 Nov 2006, 10:27 p.m.,
in response to message #2 by Trent Moseley

... to us all show our 'respectfull' rejection to those pictures? I made myself clear when I selected Bazil in the form field for [Country], and at least I had my lines read.

Would it be a good idea?

In time: thanks for your consideration, Trent.

Best regards.

Luiz (Brazil)

Edited: 17 Nov 2006, 10:58 p.m.

                  
Re: Wouldn't it be the time...
Message #4 Posted by Olivier TREGER on 18 Nov 2006, 5:34 a.m.,
in response to message #3 by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil)

I told you: they don't care.

I even wonder why they still have archivists. Maybe it's because they would be pointed out if they don't.

Tell them the actual pictures pull the HPQ stock down in Wall Street and they will put new ones...

                        
Re: Wouldn't it be the time...
Message #5 Posted by Maximilian Hohmann on 18 Nov 2006, 12:29 p.m.,
in response to message #4 by Olivier TREGER

Hello!

Quote:
I told you: they don't care.

And I can even understand it (at least a little bit): Not long ago, I browsed through a 1978 HP-catalogue. Of its 500+ pages, less than 10 were about pocket calculators, and this was the time, when they produced their best ones...

In a previous life, I worked in the field of microwave imaging and we used mainly HP equipment (the core component being the magnificient 8510 microwave vector network analyzer). The tiniest bit of hardware, like adapters or attenuators, that we employed cost more than all pocket calculators together, that HP produced at that time! They never were a "calculator company", but a manufacturer of scientific and medical instruments, who _also_ made some calculators.

The second and sadder reason for their dis-interest in old calculators is the fact that the company does not longer exist in its orignal form. I know a few people who used to work at HP in Germany, and whenever I ask them "Are you still with HP?", they reply: "I don't know! Yesterday, we called ourselves Agilent, but today, I really don't know, I haven't read my mail yet!" You cannot expect much interest in tradition from a company, that is unsure of its current status and even more of its future.

Greetings, Max

                              
Re: Wouldn't it be the time...
Message #6 Posted by Olivier TREGER on 18 Nov 2006, 2:24 p.m.,
in response to message #5 by Maximilian Hohmann

Your explanation is only partly applicable: their main revenue wasn't calculators but their main VISIBILITY was.

Just for that, they could have maintained image.

But now, only retirees opinion through their company shares are the people they care about.

                                    
Re: Wouldn't it be the time...
Message #7 Posted by Maximilian Hohmann on 18 Nov 2006, 3:01 p.m.,
in response to message #6 by Olivier TREGER

Hello!

Quote:
Your explanation is only partly applicable: their main revenue wasn't calculators but their main VISIBILITY was.

I don't know ... if I would ask my wife (and together with her most of the female population) she would probalbly identify the name "HP" with the ultrasonic imager that showed her whether she would have a boy or a girl in a few months time :-) And a single one of this machines popbably costs as much as one thousand calculators.

Quote:
Just for that, they could have maintained image.

The problem is, that "they" who designed and manufactured the best calculators are no longer there. Retired long ago. And their successors obviously (as clearly stated in their email!) never knew the image that they could maintain or preserve.

But the classic HP calculators are not alone, the same thing has happened to many great works of man, the most prominent (and sad!) example being the Concorde, the most beautiful and well-engineered man-made object ever.

Greetings, Max

                                          
Re: Wouldn't it be the time...
Message #8 Posted by Olivier TREGER on 18 Nov 2006, 5:43 p.m.,
in response to message #7 by Maximilian Hohmann

Quote:
The problem is, that "they" who designed and manufactured the best calculators are no longer there. Retired long ago. And their successors obviously (as clearly stated in their email!) never knew the image that they could maintain or preserve.
That's what I call "company memory" that should be preserved. At least it was one of the numerous messages these companies (HP,DEC) have been promoting for years.
Quote:
But the classic HP calculators are not alone, the same thing has happened to many great works of man, the most prominent (and sad!) example being the Concorde, the most beautiful and well-engineered man-made object ever.
True and, being French, I'm even more sad...
                                          
.OT: Most beautiful and well-engineered man-made object?
Message #9 Posted by Palmer O. Hanson, Jr. on 18 Nov 2006, 7:58 p.m.,
in response to message #7 by Maximilian Hohmann

Quote:

"But the classic HP calculators are not alone, the same thing has happened to many great works of man, the most prominent (and sad!) example being the Concorde, the most beautiful and well-engineered man-made object ever."

I suspect that there are many other candidates for "... most beautiful and well-engineered man-made object ever." My candidate is the family of aircraft known as the Blackbirds which were the result of superb engineering and were beautiful, powerful and awe-inspiring all at the same time. I worked with those aircraft from 1963 through 1966. You can read a lot about the program by going to www.roadrunnersinternationale.com

                                                
Re: .OT: Most beautiful and well-engineered man-made object?
Message #10 Posted by Thomas Okken on 18 Nov 2006, 10:29 p.m.,
in response to message #9 by Palmer O. Hanson, Jr.

The Brooklyn Bridge. Beautiful and spectacular all at once, and the fact that they built that thing in the 19th century completely blows me away.

                                                      
Re: .OT: Most beautiful and well-engineered man-made object?
Message #11 Posted by David Smith on 19 Nov 2006, 11:31 a.m.,
in response to message #10 by Thomas Okken

If you would care to purchase it, I'll put it up on Ebay.

                                                
Re: .OT: Most beautiful and well-engineered man-made object?
Message #12 Posted by Etienne Victoria on 19 Nov 2006, 3:31 a.m.,
in response to message #9 by Palmer O. Hanson, Jr.

The most beautiful and well-engineered man-made object helped design all others and yet...can rest in my hand:

Pelikan Souverän 1000

Etienne
                                                      
Re: .OT: Most beautiful and well-engineered man-made object?
Message #13 Posted by Olivier TREGER on 19 Nov 2006, 5:50 a.m.,
in response to message #12 by Etienne Victoria

I used to have a green one. Splendid fountain pen and the medium nib is so flexible and smooth.

                                                      
Re: .OT: Most beautiful and well-engineered man-made object?
Message #14 Posted by Juan J on 19 Nov 2006, 8:16 a.m.,
in response to message #12 by Etienne Victoria

A beautiful object, indeed. A Souverän my grandfather gave me and an HP-41CX helped me through university.

"Try this and you will never need anything else to write. It will adapt to your hand and the way you write, and the nib will last forever," he said after giving me the Souverän. Time proved him right.

Both the Souverän and the 41 are now "retired from active duty" and stay at home. A testament to that quality that is becoming harder to find.

                                                      
Re: .OT: Most beautiful and well-engineered man-made object?
Message #15 Posted by Patrick Jamet on 19 Nov 2006, 12:22 p.m.,
in response to message #12 by Etienne Victoria

There are a lot of pictures and discussions about beautiful objects (watches, pens...) at the Purists.

Patrick

                                                            
Re: .OT: Most beautiful and well-engineered man-made object?
Message #16 Posted by Mike H on 20 Nov 2006, 2:06 p.m.,
in response to message #15 by Patrick Jamet

Quote:
the Purists.
That’s silly. Can you imagine a website / forum / community completely devoted to watches. Where people would actually log on a couple times a day just to see what’s going on…... oh wait. Never mind. :)
                                                                  
Re: .OT: Most beautiful and well-engineered man-made object?
Message #17 Posted by Patrick Jamet on 20 Nov 2006, 4:27 p.m.,
in response to message #16 by Mike H

Sure. I can't imagine myself away from calculators so long for that! Calculators are far superior : they have more buttons and some can even handle letters. ;O)

                                                
Re: .OT: Most beautiful and well-engineered man-made object?
Message #18 Posted by Juan J on 19 Nov 2006, 8:19 a.m.,
in response to message #9 by Palmer O. Hanson, Jr.

Quote:
My candidate is the family of aircraft known as the Blackbirds which were the result of superb engineering and were beautiful, powerful and awe-inspiring all at the same time. I worked with those aircraft from 1963 through 1966.

So is mine.

                                                
Re: .OT: Most beautiful and well-engineered man-made object?
Message #19 Posted by Frank Wales on 19 Nov 2006, 1:25 p.m.,
in response to message #9 by Palmer O. Hanson, Jr.

Quote:
I suspect that there are many other candidates for "... most beautiful and well-engineered man-made object ever."

Let me throw in a few other candidates, which I would rate above Concorde (fantastic achievement, but my admiration diminished a little every evening when it accelerated right over my house on its way to New York) or the SR-71 (which looked fantastic, but seemed to contain some insane engineering compromises, such as leaking fuel on take-off or running fuel through the pilot's suit -- please correct me if I'm wrong about these):

  • The Statues of Liberty, as much because of what they represent as what they are
  • A violin and bow, which manage to fashion perhaps the most expressive musical instrument from their delicately-tense assemblage of carved timber, animal innards, horse hair and resin
  • Any of the later watches made by Breguet, who came up with some incredibly elegant solutions to the problems inherent in portable clocks
  • The Apollo missions, which are perhaps the apotheosis of large-scale engineering achievement to date, both in terms of their technical and management output, and in terms of the dreams and ambitions they successfully carried
  • The Great Pyramid of Giza, a preposterously audacious structure for its time that's still there, and still awesome

Edited: 19 Nov 2006, 1:26 p.m.

                                                      
SR-71 Blackbird ("Most beautiful and well-engineered object?")
Message #20 Posted by Karl Schneider on 19 Nov 2006, 4:50 p.m.,
in response to message #19 by Frank Wales

Hello, Frank --

Quote:
... or the SR-71 (which looked fantastic, but seemed to contain some insane engineering compromises, such as leaking fuel on take-off or running fuel through the pilot's suit -- please correct me if I'm wrong about these):

The "Blackbird" was indeed well ahead of its time, designed in the early 1960's. Its top-secret tooling was destroyed in early 1968, to prevent compromise to enemies.

The cause of the fuel leakage was that no sealant had been developed that could withstand the high temperature resulting from aerodynamic friction at speeds exceeding Mach 2. So, the tanks leaked whenever they contained fuel, which was apparent at takeoff with a full tank. Fuel remaining in the tanks leaked while parked in the hangars, too.

I don't know if that problem was solved by the end of its run in the 1990's, with advancements in materials science.

As for "most beautiful and well-engineered objects", let's not forget the Golden Gate Bridge, built in the 1930's. Of course, the famed bridge, like the Eiffel Tower, endured some criticism before being accepted as part of the landscape.

-- KS

                                                
Re: .OT: Most beautiful and well-engineered man-made object?
Message #21 Posted by Dave Shaffer on 19 Nov 2006, 4:39 p.m.,
in response to message #9 by Palmer O. Hanson, Jr.

My vote would go to the 40" Yerkes telescope. This 40" refractor (the largest ever made) was built in the early 1890's! Unlike the comparably vintage Brooklyn Bridge, which basically just sits there, this massive piece of moving machinery still functions (relatively flawlessly as far as I know) in everyday use. Not only is the telescope amazing, but the entire floor inside the dome, which is 60 or 70 feet across can be raised and lowered to accomodate the observer.

As an astronomer, I'm a bit biased, but telescopes (optical and radio - my favorites) can last just about forever with a bit of maintenance. The Palomar 200" has been in service for almost 60 years, and its predecessor (The Mount Wilson 100") is about 80 years old. The Jodrell Bank 250' radio telescope is 50 years old and still in everyday service, as are the optical telescopes just mentioned.

                                                      
Re: .OT: Most beautiful and well-engineered man-made object?
Message #22 Posted by Fred Lusk (CA) on 19 Nov 2006, 9:33 p.m.,
in response to message #21 by Dave Shaffer

Dave…

Among other things, I'm an amateur astronomer, and I agree with your assessment of beautiful telescopes. I haven't seen the 40" at Yerkes, but I have seen the 36" refractor at Lick: it and it's wood-paneled dome are works of art. Besides Lick, I have visited Mt Wilson, Palomar, Kitt Peak, Mauna Kea, and a couple of others. Lots of beautiful instruments. Last summer, I got to see Keck I being positioned for that night's observing. An amazing machine.

Fred

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