Re: 2 things - I'd add...(long) Message #33 Posted by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) on 30 Sept 2004, 1:08 a.m., in response to message #31 by db(martinez,california)
Hi D.B., all;
please, allow me to add some words and thoughts to the following:
Quote: (...) a new RPN with the functionality of the 45 would be a good beginner/student/promo-give away calc.
As many of you already know, I'm a teacher at the local university and I deal with math, logic, analog and digital electronics (design and maintenance), computers, telecom, pedagogic matters and related subjects as both a teacher and a professional. What I see in some Brazilian students is the 'need' of doing more and more with less and less effort. They don't read, they don't learn, they don't want to understand. All they want is DOING! They want to DO this, and DO that, and DO that other. They want to invade someone's cyberspace, they want to create a virus, they want to break access codes, to download tons and tons of gigabytes overnight... but if you ask any of them to seat down a bit and listen to your explanations about how do this all work and what you need to know to develop such systems, they prefer to cut and past some ASP code and change a few parameters to get to road again. Without having a clue about how does that heck works.
I see young guys like Ben Salinas posting high-quality texts here (congrats, Ben; keep tracking this wonderful path of yours) and I think how many others are and where are they. These are the ones we need to lead the others so they can 'wake up' and become future 'creators' instead of simply 'dependant' users. I know that high-level, object-oriented and functional languages are essential to allow non-programmers to develop their skills with computers, and I see no trouble on that. High level programming languages allow high-level professionals in distinct areas to 'talk' to computers easily, without the need of spending hours and hours by learning an imperative men-machine interface (I am a C/C++ programmer and had not found the time to go through some CLEAN or OCAML development so far...). I guess that in most cases, high-level languages simply 'make it happen'.
Without low-level codes, existing processors don't do the job. It is necessary to develop and debug I/O machine-coded routines. Yes, I know that high-level compilers exist to do that as well, and also that some processing cores are already running high-level codes, and that from now to some time, machine coding will be paleontology.
BUT... when these days come, who will care for new developments? The integrated systems themselves? Well, we are reaching the SciFi level of seeing machines coding machines and designing machines and building machines. Soon we are having HAD (Human-Aided Design) systems instead of CAD, where humans simply play a go/no go role on machines final design. O.K., O.K., I know I am asking for being blamed, but I would like you to reason about this for a bit.
There was a time where many guys specialized in calculus took months to compose log and trigonometric tables with as any significant digits as needed. Later the slide-rules replaced these tables. After that the mechanical calculators stood beside the slide rules and, finally, the 'electronic brains' became so small that could fit in our pockets (HP35): the electronic slide rules. TI offered some SR models in an attempt to make them resemble their mechanical cousins.
But calculus is still being taught and aided machines still make it fast, if used accordingly.
As a teacher, have HP finally assumed again the RPN as an operating system for low-end models, I'm writing as many books as needed to support students/beginners/professionals as I'd also stimulate my 'pupils' to use them the best way. The post-sales support from HP would be invaluable in this case so we can 'spread RPN around' as it happened in the 70's. I see RPN as an alternative reasoning way, as there are so many programming languages and paradigms. I'm not stating it is the best or the most efficient or whatever, I only would like knowing that students might have the chance to have the same alternative I was given when I began attending the University classes. I remember that HP calculators were used by many students and those who preferred having AOS-based models did not care for their choices. My first pocket calculator was a TI57, and I remember it took me a while to have money enough to buy an HP41C in 1982 (still with me and working fine). I remember that when I was in trouble trying to understand some subjects, I used to grab my HP41 and try to find the RPN way to solve it and even to write a program in order to make it easy to calculate. I confess that I learned a lot more because of it.
So, folks, if HP actually introduces a low-end RPN calculator, I offer my skills to support any user that wants to go further and I'd write as many papers and books as needed to do so. In Portuguese first, and I think I can offer a raw English text ready to be reviewed and adapted by a native English speaker.
I wrote too much, again. Sorry.
Can I say it is some .2˘?
Cheers.
Luiz (Brazil)
Edited: 30 Sept 2004, 1:30 a.m.
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