HP Forum Archive 14

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HP-15C counters Message #1 Posted by Bram on 27 Aug 2004, 7:18 a.m. The counters on the HP15C petition site keep counting. Recently the country counter counted yet another location in the world where the HP15C is wanted and it's funny to see that even in the smallest of countries people can tell quality. It's also funny to see that in some countries 2 people intend to time share only 1 device. Well, let's hope that when HP is going to re-produce the 15C, the price will be such that the two persons each can have a device by themselves. (Thailand and Guatemala). And obviously in China, Luxembourg and Peru some people have (wild) plans. We need more countries like those. And we need more people like the ones in those countries.

Re: HP-15C counters Message #2 Posted by Bram on 27 Aug 2004, 7:28 a.m., in response to message #1 by Bram It was my text of yesterday. Testing the link, I noticed that my wish has been heard even before written down. In China there was only 1 person accounting for 50 devices. A second one appears to have signed. Good show, and there are some more people there, so... In Luxembourg there were 2 persons accounting for some 100 devices, hence my asking for more people like these.

Re: HP-15C counters Message #3 Posted by Bill Wiese on 27 Aug 2004, 1:53 p.m., in response to message #2 by Bram Hate to burst your bubble, but a rerun based on these numbers (1650 entries for 6000+ calculators) _ain't_ gonna happen. Even if this was just a small sample of the demeand the numbers still aren't there. Some of these entries have to be discounted too because some folks click on this "just because it's cool" - but when it comes to shelling out $40-$50+ they disappear. You won't be able to price this calc at a premium even though it has a high 'cool factor': you hope to have regular non-collector sales too, and this calc is different enough/limited features when compared to TI-8X calcs and even HP33S that it has to fit in that price slot - no distributor/retailer will carry something that's 'out of slot'. So you could prob only charge $35-$45 MSRP. The money to invest in this has to come from somewhere too. Who's gonna invest in this? You're gonna need $600K-$750K just to get started - funding setup costs, fund the first production run, hire a coupla sales folks in USA & Europe, and have some cash to hold together while a market (might) develop. And a risky proposition without high growth prospects? No one funds a one-product company either, esp. with TI, HP, Casio and Sharp as competition. You're gonna need distrubution partners as well. I'd guess that on a $40+ calc the distributor and dealer combined get 40%-50% of the calculator's ASP (avg selling price). As I've said here before, doing the software/firmware and finding the right chip is the EASY part. Using existing HP calc firmware and putting an emulation layer [with escapes for new I/O methods] can be done in a reasonable amount of time. Making molds and keytops, having reliable keyboards, putting money up front for mask-ROM microcontrollers, plus the selling costs of packaging, distribution, warranty returns, etc. all add up. There's a vastly elevated selling cost since this is now a 'specialty' calculator now; it won't be sold alongside TI30X's at the local drugstore and reeducating folks about RPN benefits is costly. Also the dirty secret in the consumer electronics industry is that 15%-30% of items get returned for refund and then enter the 'remainder' cycle where they are sold via refurb houses, surplus merchants or as 'scratch & ding' discounted items on a given co's website. Here's my rough breakdown, with a few W.A.G.s (wild-assed guesses) based on amortized NRE costs of smaller production runs for a moderate-quality calc of a smaller production run: $0.50 CPU/microcontroller w/mask ROM $1.00 LCD $0.30 PC board $0.35 key membrane $0.70 batteries $2.00 custom keytops $2.00 custom molded case + sleeve $4.00 assembly, packaging (outside US) $5.00 importation/support/cost of sales effort ------- $15.85 So you might clear $5-$6 per calculator (given your distrib buys 'em for $20-$22 for selling price of $35-$45). That's if EVERYTHING works right, people really want to buy them over the long term, etc etc Bill Wiese San Jose CA USA

Re: HP-15C counters Message #4 Posted by Sigmund Freud on 27 Aug 2004, 3:34 p.m., in response to message #3 by Bill Wiese Did Brams say "15C Counters" or "15C Cash Deposits for Orders" ... I am a bit confused about which C word is really meant. Counters don't mean Jack!!! Dreaming about the 15C a gazzilion times don't mean Jack either. Talk is cheap .. but it will NEVER ressurect the 15C. I am happy to say that I am back in Vienna and have reopened my practice. Same old address! If you have trouble coping with the present of accepting the past, Siggy is your friend! If you have trouble using the new graphics calculators, just surf the web for help!

Re: HP-15C counters Message #5 Posted by Bram on 30 Aug 2004, 3:40 a.m., in response to message #4 by Sigmund Freud It looks like I drew attention to two more countries. Think one of them is Iceland; I don't keep track, so I'm not sure. (just observing....)

Re: HP-15C counters Message #6 Posted by Bram on 28 Aug 2004, 2:56 p.m., in response to message #3 by Bill Wiese You're absolutely right, yet you didn't burst any of my bubbles. I was just observing some figures. I like looking at numbers, that's why I like calculators. In the meantime there's nothing wrong having wishes. I also wish to have a like-new Woodstock 27 some fine day. Should I stop wishing, because it's not really realistic? Frankly I too do have doubts about HP doing what we'd like them to do, but I never say never.

Re: HP-15C counters Message #7 Posted by Sigmund Freud on 28 Aug 2004, 11:02 p.m., in response to message #6 by Bram There is nothing wrong with honoring the past. In fact this hp museum web site is all about honoring the past. We used old HP calculators in our jobs and as hobbies, and we connected with them. We should honor the past as the past, but also honor the present and all the things that it brings us, including more power calculators (although the quality has become an issue). Mixing the past with the present is an indication of unresolved issues. It is very possible that our unconscious mind uses objects from the past like the HP15C to remind us of other issues associated with that era. Ask yourself, what other aspects of your life when you used the HP15C still need resolution and closure. What do you wish to change from that past and revisit to deal with? I invite you to ask this sacred question and honor yourself, the past, and the present.

Re: HP-15C counters Message #8 Posted by Chris Woodhouse on 29 Aug 2004, 8:12 p.m., in response to message #7 by Sigmund Freud Someone here has issuse, that's for sure. Chris W Bring Back the HP 15C

Re: HP-15C counters Message #9 Posted by Sigmund Freud on 30 Aug 2004, 11:55 a.m., in response to message #8 by Chris Woodhouse The HP15C will be resurected when people WITH POWER (that's the KEY word) decide that it will happen. If you and your fellow enthusiasts HAVE THE POWER to do so then IT WILL HAPPEN, regardless what any counter reads. OTHERWISE, you will be better off buying vintage HP-15C from eBay or this site and enjoying them.

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