HP Forum Archive 14

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HP 16c logo needed Message #1 Posted by Joe Edwards on 7 June 2004, 4:08 p.m. Hey folks, I just got a MINT HP-16c off ebay for about $100.00. Well, almost mint. Physically and Mechanically it is mint. Cosmetically someone wrote 16c on the back and the HP-16c logo is missing. What are the chances that I can find someone who has or can get a 16c logo? I am sure I might as well be spitting in the wind, but I thought I would ask. Joe Edwards

Re: HP 16c logo needed Message #2 Posted by Cameron on 7 June 2004, 4:39 p.m., in response to message #1 by Joe Edwards I'm envious, Joe. That's a good price. If you have no luck getting a label, I have several photos of my label that I've scanned to make icons for my simulator. A couple of those would probably print up nicely on photographic paper in a high-res ink jet. Yeah it's a pretty lame solution but I thought I'd offer. What's the S/N of yours? Does it have the F-mark beside the battery icons on the rear? I ask only because I'm trying to work out when HP got VDE-871b certification for the 16C. Cameron xyzzy

Re: HP 16c logo needed Message #3 Posted by Joe Edwards on 7 June 2004, 8:42 p.m., in response to message #2 by Cameron Hi, The serial number is 2447A13939. I cannot find an F mark next to the battery area on the back, sorry. Yes, it is a pretty good price. I really expected it to be in pretty bad shape. I actually let it sit on my desk for about ten minutes before I got the nerve to remove it from the slip cover. Joe

Re: HP 16c logo needed Message #4 Posted by Trent Moseley on 7 June 2004, 9:24 p.m., in response to message #2 by Cameron Cameron, What is VDE-871b certification? My 16C has the F-mark and 871b; serial 2741A.... tm

871b Message #5 Posted by Cameron on 8 June 2004, 9:44 a.m., in response to message #4 by Trent Moseley Hopefully one of our German friends can help me out here. I don't read German so I can only fall back on some hand-waving. I gather it was a West German (this is before 1990) EM emmission control/RFI standard. Probably much the same as the FCC Class "B" device standards. It would have been superseded by the EU's CE RFI standards but CE didn't appear until well after the 16C was out of production. I seem to recall CE marks appearing on devices around 1994. Here in Australia we use what's called the "C-tick" for much the same thing. We've contrived our emissions standards to embrace those applicable in other jurisdictions which obviates the need for imports from those jurisdictions to be re-certified. This is not unusual so I can only conclude that the German standard that the 16C was tested for was more restrictive than those in other markets where it was sold. Your S/N and Joe's bracket 1984 and 1987. This gets me a little closer. Previously I had narrowed it only to 1982-1988. Thanks for your help. Cameron PS: anyone else with a 16C (or maybe any Voyager) want to help us get closer?

Re: 871b Message #6 Posted by Chris Woodhouse on 8 June 2004, 12:06 p.m., in response to message #5 by Cameron I have a broken LCD 11C 2503A42515 no 817B 15C 2550A01668 Has the 871B by the battery icons 15C 2648A07100 Has the 871B by the battery icons Chris W Bring Back the HP 15C

Re: 871b Message #7 Posted by marais on 8 June 2004, 12:34 p.m., in response to message #5 by Cameron 2625A00229 Made in USA with 871B label

Re: 871b Message #8 Posted by Trent Moseley on 8 June 2004, 3:03 p.m., in response to message #5 by Cameron Cameron, In addition to my 16C that I reported on, I have a 15C ser. 2242A...1982 42nd week with no icon and a 12C ser. MY 7 20...1997 20th week with a big "C E". tm

Re: 871b Message #9 Posted by Julián Miranda (Spain) on 8 June 2004, 4:21 p.m., in response to message #5 by Cameron My 15C s/n 2443A10247 no 871b picture.

Re: 871b Message #10 Posted by Gordon Dyer on 8 June 2004, 7:24 p.m., in response to message #5 by Cameron My 12C serial number 2537A has the FCC 871B mark.

Re: 871b - the story so far Message #11 Posted by Cameron on 9 June 2004, 4:05 a.m., in response to message #5 by Cameron Earliest Voyager (Gordon's 12C): 2537 Earliest 16C: 2625 Earliest 15C: 2550 Earliest 12C: 2537 It's possibly OK to assume that all Voyagers were certified at the same time. Assigning that to a date depends on whether you are persuaded by the HP-financial-year-in-serial-number argument or not. Either way, 2537 is the first half of 1985. I wonder when they shipped the first retail batch to Europe. Thanks for joining in. If anyone who hasn't contributed can narrow it down further, please add to the list. Cameron

Re: 871b - the story so far Message #12 Posted by Raymond Del Tondo on 9 June 2004, 6:50 a.m., in response to message #11 by Cameron Hi, I have a 12C Made in USA 2232A03473 which doesn't have any of the industrial logos on the back. It has only the batt symbols and the 'DEPR,BOND,AMORT,INT,DATE' matrix printed on the back. Like with one of my 16C's 2447A11766 which doesn't have any RF check note printed on. But one of my 11C's 2547A55816 has both the 871b and the FCC rules note. Raymond

Re: HP 16c logo needed Message #13 Posted by Steven Kutoroff on 8 June 2004, 7:23 p.m., in response to message #4 by Trent Moseley 16C 2240A02220 has no F or anything else by the battery icon. They just kind of float there above the list of errors. Thanks for giving me a reason to take it out and give it a spin. Should I remove the batteries if it is not going to be used for a while? delete 12345

Battery removal Message #14 Posted by Cameron on 15 June 2004, 7:35 p.m., in response to message #13 by Steven Kutoroff Hello Steven. I didn't respond earlier because I really don't know if those cells have a propensity to leak. I keep batteries in mine but I use it at least once a week. It can't hurt to take them out--as long as there's nothing in memory that you want to keep. Cameron xyzzy

Re: HP 16c logo needed Message #15 Posted by Gordon Dyer on 8 June 2004, 7:34 p.m., in response to message #4 by Trent Moseley FCC - North American EMI Verification The U.S. Federal Communications Commission (FCC) enacted electromagnetic-interference (EMI) regulations for various products such as transmitters, receivers, information technology, and similar microprocessor-based equipment. To streamline authorization procedures for computers and similar devices, and to align FCC requirements with those of world markets, the FCC amended Parts 2 and 15 allowing manufacturers' self-authorization. NI products comply with U.S. FCC and Industry Canada EMI Verification requirements for a Class A digital device according to FCC Part 15 and ICES-003. (FCC Mark not applicable for Class A products)

FCC regulations and compliance Message #16 Posted by bill platt on 9 June 2004, 5:39 p.m., in response to message #15 by Gordon Dyer Hi Gordon, What do you do that you know all that? It sounds like you really know it, and it is written clearly and with an authoritative feel :^) Best regards, Bill

Re: FCC regulations and compliance Message #17 Posted by Gordon Dyer on 11 June 2004, 4:13 p.m., in response to message #16 by bill platt I searched google for FCC 871b and copied a section out of a page I found. I haven't kept a record of the site, but I thought some of you may like to see what 871b was about. I have been looking for a release history of the regulations but can't find it, someone must know when it became law to mark the 871 logo on electronic goods.... I have been involved in testing EMC compliance to European regulations.

The road to Damascus Message #18 Posted by Cameron on 12 June 2004, 4:32 p.m., in response to message #17 by Gordon Dyer Thanks Gordon. The significance of your earlier post went over my head. Evidently you didn't paste the "871b" with the text. ;-) I thought you were quoting a similar FCC regulation. A colleague told me years ago that it was a German mark (or perhaps I'm suffering from middle-age confabulation, which seems more likely). I thank you for disabusing me of that bogus belief. Cameron xyzzy

Re: The road to Damascus Message #19 Posted by Gordon Dyer on 15 June 2004, 6:13 p.m., in response to message #18 by Cameron I might have mislead you! I assumed 871b was a US mark and searched for FCC 871b, but the documents I found didn't refer to 871b. So you may be correct about it being a German requirement before the CE mark was introduced. I have searched for it and have not found any references. Also, the US FCC pages seem to be lacking in a record of the history of FCC regulations. Can anyone help?

...about as far as I can go (can any German colleagues take us further?) Message #20 Posted by Cameron on 15 June 2004, 7:26 p.m., in response to message #19 by Gordon Dyer Apparently I can buy 1,000 of these tags for Eu 27.50. If you'd like to stock up yourself, visit this page Seriously though, the standards organisation is called: Verband Deutscher Elektrotechniker (which the babel fish translates as "Connected German electrical engineer"). I suspect that 871b is too old to be documented on the web. The fact that it's been superseded by the CE mark doesn't help either. Our only hope for a definitive end to the trail is for a German EE who was working in consumer electronics during the 80's to step forward and join up the dots for us. Cameron

Re: ...about as far as I can go (can any German colleagues take us further?) Message #21 Posted by marais on 16 June 2004, 4:42 a.m., in response to message #20 by Cameron VDE 871 (also known as DIN 57871) is a norm defining electromagnetic compatibility of electronic devices, both in terms of far field radiation emitted and resistance to exposure to radiation. You certainly knew that already. It defines two classes of devices (a and b) with different thresholds. The newer european EN55011 handles the same issue, but I don't know if it covers 871 entirely or goes beyond.

Thank you Marais. Message #22 Posted by Cameron on 16 June 2004, 11:57 a.m., in response to message #21 by marais Quote: ...both in terms of far field radiation emitted and resistance to exposure to radiation. You certainly knew that already. You're too kind. I knew the first part but the exposure resistance was news to me. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Cameron

Re: HP 16c logo needed Message #23 Posted by David Smith on 8 June 2004, 1:41 p.m., in response to message #1 by Joe Edwards Try Mike Davis, he had some a while back. They usually go for around $30 or so on Ebay.

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