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are there any real voyager emulators
Message #1 Posted by hugh steers on 9 Dec 2003, 8:07 p.m.

hi all,

ive seen proper emulators for the 41 and the classics and also the 48/49 series, but are there any real emulators for any of the voyagers?

there is a lot of software out there that claims, for example, to be a hp12c emulator. but none ive seen are really. all that ive seen are programs that try to do the same calculations (ie simulators). however, and this is the important bit, not a single one has behaved the same (kk12 for the palm was the closest, but even that is re-engineered). not tried the lygea stuff. anyone?

did the voyagers have saturn processors or did it contain traces of nuts?

thanks for any info,

      
Re: are there any real voyager emulators
Message #2 Posted by Nelson M. Sicuro (Brazil) on 9 Dec 2003, 8:27 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by hugh steers

The voyagers' processors are NUT CPUs very much the same as of the HP-41. The only differences are:
1) Clock (~230KHz)
2) Voltage (3~5V)
3) It doesn't use the signal of "power good", the display chip handles the low battery test (I doesn't remember now the name)

The opcodes are exactly the same. I'm managing to get the ROM of my 12C/15C dumped, isn't that hard (I only need to build a logic analyzer with my PC's parallel port).
The signals are the same, ISA, SYNC, DATA, Clock1&2. The earlier ones have the RAM/LCD+ROM chips external, and the signals are accesible. I played with a scope, they are all there... I even "watch" the ROM dump in the self-test!

I think that *will be* emulators for them, I'm myself trying do to it. I also think that most people found that it will be very difficult to get the ROM dumped, or only tried on the new ones (only one chip).

Best regards

Nelson

Edited: 9 Dec 2003, 9:20 p.m.

            
Re: are there any real voyager emulators
Message #3 Posted by hugh steers on 10 Dec 2003, 12:34 p.m.,
in response to message #2 by Nelson M. Sicuro (Brazil)

hi nelson,

have you managed to extract the rom image? i wonder if this has ever been done before. it would be nice to have a true emulator.

                  
Re: are there any real voyager emulators
Message #4 Posted by Nelson M. Sicuro (Brazil) on 10 Dec 2003, 2:28 p.m.,
in response to message #3 by hugh steers

Not yet... :(
I need to build a small logic analyzer with a PC's parallel port and some Turbo Pascal DOS program to read it.
But it can be done! In the self-test, the program reads the entire ROM to calculate some sort of checksum/CRC, using the some op-code that reads the ROM content pointed by the C register, and the address and the ROM content are visible on the DATA line of the processor with a scope (you can see the bit pattern of the address increasing).
As soon I build such "ROM dumper" I'll try to create an emulator for the 12C/15C based on some 41CX emulator.
I can post here the schematics of the analyzer and the TP program, but not the ROM (copyrights!!!).

Best regards

Nelson

                        
Re: are there any real voyager emulators
Message #5 Posted by hugh on 10 Dec 2003, 4:57 p.m.,
in response to message #4 by Nelson M. Sicuro (Brazil)

would you be prepared to email the rom to persons who could prove they owned a real 15c?

                              
Re: are there any real voyager emulators
Message #6 Posted by Valentin Albillo on 11 Dec 2003, 5:24 a.m.,
in response to message #5 by hugh

hugh posted:

"would you be prepared to email the rom to persons who could prove they owned a real 15c? "

How can you "prove" to anyone (remotely) that you "own" a real HP-15C ?

I have 5 by the last count, but no sales receipt or otherwise as they were all acquired in eBay, etc. And I don't think sending in a picture would be proof enough, either. After all, you might have taken it from someone else's 15C you got borrowed for a while :-)

In short, it's all a matter of trust and bonafide, IMHO. You just can't 'prove' anything.

Best regards from V.

                        
Re: are there any real voyager emulators
Message #7 Posted by Arnaud Amiel on 11 Dec 2003, 5:02 a.m.,
in response to message #4 by Nelson M. Sicuro (Brazil)

>I can post here the schematics of the analyzer and the TP program, but not the ROM (copyrights!!!).

I guess it could be possible to get hp to release the ROMs as they did for the 48s.

Arnaud

      
Re: are there any real voyager emulators
Message #8 Posted by Andrés C. Rodríguez (Argentina) on 9 Dec 2003, 9:47 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by hugh steers

From other users recent postings, it seems that the 15C version by Lygea is a very close simulation of the original 15C, but there are some subtle differences...

            
Re: are there any real voyager emulators
Message #9 Posted by Bill Wiese on 10 Dec 2003, 2:11 a.m.,
in response to message #8 by Andrés C. Rodríguez (Argentina)

Andres R. wrote:

Quote:
From other users recent postings, it seems that the 15C version by Lygea is a very close simulation of the original 15C, but there are some subtle differences...

Yes, I believe all HP-1X "emulations" are really just functional simulations of calc behavior - they are not executing HP Nut CPU code, and are running their own, not HP's, algorithms for transcendentals, rootfinding, integration, etc.

Bill Wiese
San Jose CA

      
Re: are there any real voyager emulators
Message #10 Posted by HrastProgrammer on 10 Dec 2003, 1:33 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by hugh steers

Just give me the ROM of any of them and you will have a emulator working on HP-48/49 in a 2-3 weeks :-)

Best regards.

            
Re: are there any real voyager emulators
Message #11 Posted by Bill Wiese on 10 Dec 2003, 2:08 a.m.,
in response to message #10 by HrastProgrammer

Hi Hrast...

HrastProgrammer wrote:

Quote:
Just give me the ROM of any of them and you will have a emulator working on HP-48/49 in a 2-3 weeks :-)

Spoken with genuine panache ;)

And if we ever can get a reliable TI59 ROM dump (and accurate TMC0501 CPU behavior model) a real triumph would be a TI58/59 low-level emulation on HP48 ;) - "Just because it could be done."

Bill Wiese
San Jose CA

                  
Re: are there any real voyager emulators
Message #12 Posted by HrastProgrammer on 10 Dec 2003, 2:19 a.m.,
in response to message #11 by Bill Wiese

Spoken with genuine panache ;)

Yes ... because I have done CPU emulation a long time ago. I just need ROM and to do some LCD emulation ;-)

TI-58/59 would be a much harder task but you never know ...

Just because it could be done.

Why not :-) During the last few weeks I have worked a little on Sharp PC-1450 (and similar) emulator and I managed to emulate SC61860A CPU (which is 8-bit) on HP-48GX at about half the speed of the real one ...

Best regards.

      
Re: are there any real voyager emulators
Message #13 Posted by Torsten Manz on 10 Dec 2003, 2:32 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by hugh steers

Hi,

I developed a 15C simulator in Tcl/Tk. It supports all functions, except matrix operations. I can e-mail it on request.

Regards

Torsten

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