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HP Forum Archive 13

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The Complete Voyager
Message #1 Posted by Patrick on 26 May 2003, 6:03 p.m.

The way Norm feels about the HP-34C is something like the way I feel about the Voyager series.

I'm happy to report that, with the receipt today of a quite well preserved HP-10C, I am now the proud owner of a complete working set! Woo hooo!!

Just thought I'd share this with you since my family kind of looks at me funny when I am stupid enough to start talking about these sorts of things (I'm sure many of you recognize this phenomenon).

I do apologize to the HP socialists here who have recently expressed the sentiment "One person, one HP calculator!". I'm definitely way out on a limb with regards to these folks... ;-)

      
Re: The Complete Voyager
Message #2 Posted by GS Leong on 26 May 2003, 7:27 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Patrick

Congratulations! Thats quite an achievement.

      
Re: The Complete Voyager Series
Message #3 Posted by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) on 26 May 2003, 9:48 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Patrick

Congrats, Patrick; you achieved a good rank by having at least one of each.

For the records: how many of each model you have? If you intend to collect, remember that there are at least 5 different HP12C, Platinum not counting: four different internals with a set of three batteries and the one with the single 3.3V battery. And there are two types of each HP11C, 15C and 16C. I am not sure if there are two types of the HP10C.

I do not collect models or types, I have calculators I can and like to use. I take technology as something I collected.

Best regards.

Luiz C. Vieira - Brazil

            
Re: The Complete Voyager Series
Message #4 Posted by Trent Moseley on 26 May 2003, 11:31 p.m.,
in response to message #3 by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil)

Luiz,

How do you know which type of 15C, 16C, and 12C, you have? By country of manufacture and serial number?

tm

                  
Re: The Complete Voyager Series
Message #5 Posted by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) on 27 May 2003, 12:11 a.m.,
in response to message #4 by Trent Moseley

Hi, trent;

the trick is in the batteries' connectors: the fastest way to identify the two basic Voyagers "guts".

If your Voyager has metal strips on each of the battery connectors, than it's one of the first types. These ones use the flex-circuit assembly with all chips and the LCD in one package and the keyboard has a separated hard PCB.

If you see a spring in one pole (+) and a small rigid tab in the other (-), then yours is a newer Voyager. There are at least three different HP12C layouts with these "single PCB", but I saw only one of these PCB's in the HP11C/15C/16C. I'm not sure about the HP10C because I have never opened any, but I had the chance to see and use one when I was at the university.

I have some scanned images and I'm yuploading them tonight, if I'm lucky enough finding my e-space active and working. I'll post later.

Hope this helps. If I miss anything, let me know.

Best regards.

Luiz C. Vieira - Brazil

                        
Forgot to mention...
Message #6 Posted by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) on 27 May 2003, 12:36 a.m.,
in response to message #5 by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil)

Hi;

I forgot to mention that the second type, the ones with a spring and a tab in the batteries' compartment, have one single PCB with all components built in.

The three HP12C with a single hard PCB had original HP-coded chips, one of them being the 1LQ09-0322, the other has 1RR2-0001 ID code and the third one I have not seen again (the earlier type). The one with single 3.3V button cell (Chinese) comes with an Agilent chip, ID 2AF1-0001.

There is more data about the HP11C, 15C and 16C, already posted here sometime ago. I'm collecting data (I like it a lot!) to try an article, later.

Best regards.

Luiz C. Vieira - Brazil

                              
Re: Forgot to mention...
Message #7 Posted by james (UK) on 29 May 2003, 4:59 p.m.,
in response to message #6 by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil)

Hi Luiz

Looking forward to your article, when do you think it'll be ready?

                                    
Re: Forgot to mention...
Message #8 Posted by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) on 30 May 2003, 2:35 a.m.,
in response to message #7 by james (UK)

Hello, James;

I'm just wating to see if I can get more information about the "chipset" used in both HP10C and earlier HP12C. As the HP12C is still in production, the first units are most likely to be thrown away or sent to HP "headquaters" for repair and eventual replacement. I do not like to mention it because of speculation, but I think first HP12C units are as rare as the HP10C, if not rarest.

As I have this information and put it together with my own, I'm setting images up and I'll prepare a text to be collectively handled. I think this is the best way.

Thank you for your ecouragement and support!

Luiz C. Vieira - Brazil

Edited: 30 May 2003, 4:59 a.m.

            
Re: The Complete Voyager Series
Message #9 Posted by Patrick on 27 May 2003, 12:54 a.m.,
in response to message #3 by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil)

> For the records: how many of each model you have?

Well, Luiz, you ask a very loaded question. You see, I have been quite active in my collecting recently, especially in the area of Voyagers and (to a lesser degree) Woodstocks. This is my version of a mid-life crisis, I suppose.

I will say that I have at least two copies of each (well, except for the 10C, for which my second copy is still in transit). I have more 15C's though, because I am terribly enamoured with that particular model.

I'm sure, though, that I do not have all the varieties you've been mentioning. I read somewhere, probably here, that some of the early 11C's and 15C's had metal logos, later replaced by plastic ones. In the case of the 12C, I have a copy from the US, one from Brazil and one of the new ones from China (large single battery). I'm not all that interested in what kind of PCB is inside them. No doubt I will should the day come when they don't work anymore!

But then, you'll be here to answer my questions, wont you Luiz??! ;-)

                  
Re: The Complete Voyager Series
Message #10 Posted by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) on 27 May 2003, 3:30 a.m.,
in response to message #9 by Patrick

Anytime, anywhere... be my guest!

I only hope I'm able to help, of course.

About particular external changes: I'm not aware of most of them, I am mostly concerned about their internals and operation. As an example, I have two HP42S: one of them is no longer working, and they are externally different: the earliest one has an LCD protective shield, while the newer one doesn't. Internally they look the same, but their SW version (O.S.) is different, upgraded.

When I realised that external changes may occur without internal subsequent changes (or the opposite), I decided to keep track of the internal ones; I like them most.

Success! And keep these babes in good hape, wilyah?

Luiz C. Vieira - Brazil

            
Re: The Complete Voyager Series
Message #11 Posted by Ernie Malaga on 28 May 2003, 1:00 p.m.,
in response to message #3 by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil)

>I do not collect models or types, I have calculators I can and like to use. I take technology as something I collected.

Besides, who wants to go, "eeny-meeny-miny-moe" to choose one, when needing a calculator? 8^)

-Ernie

      
Re: The Complete Voyager
Message #12 Posted by db(martinez,california) on 27 May 2003, 1:43 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Patrick

i am no doubt one of the calculator socialists.

i applaud your recient completion of the voyager series collection. lucky dog. i am not far behind though. what i have refered to in derision is some peoples indescriminate buying of multiples of everything in sight because they can.

i have a few duplicates. i just sold one. i will sell the rest too, but i'll keep my three 41's. i use a 41 daily and would not sleep right if i just had one. several good members of this community have duplicates. they use them to earn a living. others like mike they buy-fix-improve-combine and then resell them as a hobby. they share their repair methods with the rest of us and wouldn't know jack to teach us if they didn't have to fix the wrecks.

socialisim is forced on a population. electing to make yourself a member of a community is a personal decision. i believe that this forum functions as a community.

the following is only my opinion: i do not think that buying a lot of calculators that one found out about here at $100 and selling them for $250 here to the same people who would have bought them at $100 if they were quicker is being a member of the community. i don't think that having the deepst pockets on ebay is bad. i do think that buying the same thing again and again just to have the biggest stack of hp-XX's around is pointless. and since a bunch of people wanted them; i think that redundant buying on the scale of a couple of the jerks on ebay is just being a pig. it also drives up the already insane prices.

ebay doesn't affect me too much. i bought my work units from ol' jim carter and richard nelson at educalc. i have found most of my treasures at the flea market and most of the rest from fellow surveyors and people i know. what i am saying is that if i had a garrage full of hp calcs all that would do is make a lot fewer people to have something to post about here. it wouldn't do anything FOR me, or this community.

ok, enough phylosophy. lets get back to business.

don't the new hp's suck?

            
Re: The Complete Voyager
Message #13 Posted by Juergen (CH) on 27 May 2003, 2:40 a.m.,
in response to message #12 by db(martinez,california)

Although I was just kidding when proposing the HP socialits party, you perfectly brought it on the point. Thanks!

                  
Re: The Complete Voyager
Message #14 Posted by james (UK) on 29 May 2003, 5:28 p.m.,
in response to message #13 by Juergen (CH)

Hi guys

I take the true socialist view, everyone else should have one but I can have many (everyone is equal but some are more equal than others!)

I've only recently upgraded to an HP having used a Casio for years (doing very basic calcs) until the battery went. Of course the sensible option was to spend 1 or so on new batteries so I can considered that for at least a second then decided it was a good opportunity to get a new calculator.

When I was at school in the 70s and calculators were just becoming readily available HPs had an awesome reputation (the Rolls-Royce or Cadillac - I'm bilingual! - of calculators) but were way out of my reach. I eventually progressed to a TI-58 at University (don't mock too much - at least it has red leds) and then on to Casios at work because they were cheap.

Having now decided to get a new calculator I thought I would look at HP's current offerings but was disappointed - the move away from RPN, the loss of that unique HP look - cover the logo of the current machines and they could be any brand - the only potential buy being the 12C.

Fortunately I came across this site and started having a look at ebay - although some of the prices are steep, some aren't too bad and it does at least provide a ready source for people outside the States.

I don't see many HPs in junkshops, etc over here - it's possibly a sad reflection of the status of engineers in the UK as the great British engineers of the past came from artisan stock in the working classes so engineers have never had a high status here whereas in Europe they tended to come more from the middle/upper classes and have a higher status - witness the use of Ing as a title in Germany - it is interesting to note that on ebay excluding the USA the majority of HP-41s come from Germany! Probably explains a lot about the state of UK industry!!

Anyway, I got a lovely 41CV just over a month ago and am currently working my way through some of the manuals on the Museum CD - I picked up an X-Functions module recently so am presently working my way through Keith Jarett's X-Funct book.

Of course, paranoia set in when I started reading posts about problems people have with their 41s so of course a back-up one had to be purchased! Didn't hurt that the back-up one had a PPC rom stuffed in the back! Boy, are the office going to be pleased when I print out 500pages of manual from the CD!!

I also like the looks of the Voyager and a UK seller on ebay had a 12 on offer so that has been added to the fleet pending me finding (or saving up for!) a 15.

Of course, I also would like a red led model and am looking out for a 67 or 34C.

Anyway enough insanity from me and well done to anyone who has read this far!

                        
Beware !
Message #15 Posted by Randy Sloyer on 29 May 2003, 11:25 p.m.,
in response to message #14 by james (UK)

James,

I can tell from your post that the infection has taken hold in your system. Beware.

Treatment for this malady may still be effective if undertaken quickly.

                              
Re: Beware !
Message #16 Posted by james (UK) on 30 May 2003, 3:50 a.m.,
in response to message #15 by Randy Sloyer

LOL - I think I'm now beyond curing, the infection has taken too great a hold.

                        
Re: The Complete Voyager
Message #17 Posted by Juergen (CH) on 30 May 2003, 6:18 a.m.,
in response to message #14 by james (UK)

I must admit that I am a bad (or, in your words, a true) socialist and yes, this malady is very dangerous and, in my wife's opinion, is immedicable...

      
Re: The Complete Voyager
Message #18 Posted by Valentin Albillo on 27 May 2003, 9:17 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Patrick

Congratulations indeed !

I completed my Voyager quintet a long time ago, matter of fact I'm now completing my third set, and very proud of them all. As you may have noticed, I also share your enthusiasm for the HP-15C, which IMHO is the best, most advanced, pure calculator ever.

Notice I say "calculator" and not "computing system", "advanced graphing calculator", "pocket computer" or whatever. In its class, the HP-15C is unparalleled, every detail, every feature, has been the subject of very careful thought and consideration by the very best calculator designers in the world. Everything in this advanced calculator is superb, from its physical characteristics to its documentation. There's never been anything like it, nor will it ever be again, that is unless Star Trek-like 'replicators' make an early appearance in this century. :-)

By the way, Patrick, I'd like you to have a look at some interesting related materials, would you please consider letting me know some suitable means of forwarding them to you.

Best regards.

            
I think the same about the 15C (no text)
Message #19 Posted by R Lion on 27 May 2003, 10:05 a.m.,
in response to message #18 by Valentin Albillo

.

            
Re: The Complete Voyager
Message #20 Posted by Veli-Pekka Nousiainen on 27 May 2003, 10:52 a.m.,
in response to message #18 by Valentin Albillo

I wish, I wish, for HP 15C Platinum^2 "what ^2 ?", you may ask. Well four times more memory and speed than even the HP 12C Platinum, that is 16* (memory,speed). Never mind the batteries will not last!! I want speeeed! (and large matrices + more memory) The same with the 16C and I would buy both in a hearth beat.

                  
The Complete Voyager - another issue?
Message #21 Posted by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) on 27 May 2003, 12:28 p.m.,
in response to message #20 by Veli-Pekka Nousiainen

Hi;

Not exactly the same issue, but I'd prefer an HP42S+ (32KRAM) with I/O capabilities. I know many of you do not like it so much, but the HP42S is already a lot faster than the HP15C, holds a lot more information, ALPHA messages, despite being hard to "type" in, are handy, and I think its Matrix Editor is better input interface than the HP15C's stack entering (my thoughts).

I have two HP15C and two HP16C and I like them a lot. But when I need to work with matrices and I do not know how much "space" will I need, I prefer to make room and use as many matrices names as I want to than to "squeeze" data in five labels and 64 registers tops. If it is a simple four complex variables' linear system solution, like in power lines, I grab the HP15C User's Manual and follow that recipe to solve it. For fun.

Just my thoughts.

Luiz C. Vieira - Brazil

            
Re: The Complete Voyager
Message #22 Posted by Patrick on 27 May 2003, 12:29 p.m.,
in response to message #18 by Valentin Albillo

Hi Valentin

You can contact me by email at my yahoo account. I give it here in pieces to try to avoid the spammers, but the user id can be gotten by concatenating the strings "psheppard" and "ca" (with no intervening punctuation). Perhaps you can use a 41C to compute the answer? ;-)

I look forward to hearing from you!


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