HP Forum Archive 12

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Copy of Wand Manual from CD Message #1 Posted by Donald Leonard on 3 May 2003, 11:41 p.m. It appears that my only chance to acquire a 82153A Wand at a reasonable price is one offered without a user manual. Is there someone out there with a Museum CD and a quality printer willing to print out a complete copy of it for me? I will gladly pay them for the materials, time/effort and shipping. I am unable to do this myself as my WebTV STB does not have a CD or Hard drive - it's a 'dumb' terminal. Please contact me by e-mail with your offer. Don

Re: Copy of Wand Manual from CD Message #2 Posted by Ion Abraham (New Mexico USA) on 4 May 2003, 12:35 a.m., in response to message #1 by Donald Leonard Hi Don, Done. If you will send your postal mailing address, I will send you the manual. If some of the pages do not render well enough from the pdf, I can make you better copy off my own copy of the wand manual. By the way, in using the wand, I found it extremely helpful to use a thick ruler when you scan the bar codes. My wand does not like it when you don't go straight across a bar code, in a nice smooth motion. Best regards, Ion Abraham Albuquerque, New Mexico icabraham@att.net

Re: Copy of Wand Manual from CD Message #3 Posted by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) on 4 May 2003, 1:04 a.m., in response to message #2 by Ion Abraham (New Mexico USA) Hi, Ion; yours is a valuable tip. Please, allow me to add another. To avoid permanently smear original printing, I use an acetate sheet (full-page size) over the printed bars prior to wand any of them. I think the original set already has something like this, but I bought mine as used, and I saw no acetate sheet as part of it. The acetate will reflect part of the LED emission, demanding slower and more precise movements. But it worth the job if you think your original hardcopy will last longer. My US$ 0.01 contribution. Luiz C. Vieira - Brazil

Re: Copy of Wand Manual from CD Message #4 Posted by Ion Abraham (New Mexico USA) on 4 May 2003, 10:03 a.m., in response to message #3 by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) Hi Luiz, I completely agree. I remembered I should have added this to my reply a few hours after I sent it. I keep the bar code sheets in plastic already, so I just don't think about it anymore. Best regards, Ion

Just a thought Message #5 Posted by Jim L on 4 May 2003, 11:08 a.m., in response to message #1 by Donald Leonard Since Dave's site is being used to request a copy from Dave's CD, It would be nice if Don ordered a copy if he hasn't already. I think that would make it legal too.

Re: Just a thought Message #6 Posted by Ion Abraham (New Mexico USA) on 5 May 2003, 8:26 a.m., in response to message #5 by Jim L I don't want to get into an argument about this, but Don mentioned that he can't use the CD set because he doesn't have a CD-ROM drive. So I figured that it's OK to cut the guy some slack. After all, the usefulness of Dave's very nice CD compilation is in making it possible for people to use the hardware. I hope Dave is OK with this. Regards, Ion Abraham Albuquerque, New Mexico

Re: Just a thought Message #7 Posted by Dave Hicks on 5 May 2003, 2:55 p.m., in response to message #6 by Ion Abraham (New Mexico USA) With respect to my copyright (I can't speak for HP), if someone owns a museum CD that he can't read, I don't have an issue with someone providing a print-out for him.

Re: Copy of Wand Manual from CD-Thank you Message #8 Posted by Donald Leonard on 6 May 2003, 2:31 a.m., in response to message #1 by Donald Leonard I want to thank those of you that replied here and by e-mail with kindness and an offer to help. It is really appreciated. As I understand it, it is suggested that I spend $15-$30 for CD('s) that I have NO way to use, plus the cost of printing and shipping of a thin manual, about $10. That makes the manual copy $25-$40. Since that is a little steep for a loose leaf copy of reported marginal quality, I am now forced to reconsider the wisdom of trying to replace this item, or add the $25-$40 to my max. bid and get a wand WITH a manual. I am just a little dissapointed that this has turned into a commercial pissing match. Don

Re: Copy of Wand Manual from CD-Thank you Message #9 Posted by Ellis Easley on 6 May 2003, 6:16 a.m., in response to message #8 by Donald Leonard Don, I helped you out a while ago and I was glad to do it. I don't want to offend you but you are acting like someone who is proud of the fact he doesn't have a car - and talks about it whenever you're driving him around! You're right about the cost - it might turn out the same as if you bought an original manual - only you'll be getting hundreds of manuals. (I know about the WebTV situation) Every once in a while someone posts a message here expressing resentment that all the manuals aren't online. Maybe a lot of regulars are grumbling about it under their breath. I don't know all the details involved in putting up a website - the best information I have is what I have learned from listening to radio shows that have considered putting up websites to enhance their broadcasts. The problem is that if you put up large files with any degree of popularity, your server gets overloaded and you have to add more servers. I understand one server can only provide video (for example) to 8 users. What if you have millions of potential users actually listening at the same time? If you've ever listened to a national talk show you know that if the host makes the mistake of saying the name of a website that he wants to talk about, he guarantees that the server will go down because of all the listeners who try to log on to it at the same moment. I know there aren't millions of people here but consider all the Ebay auctioneers who link to this website when they are listing an HP calculator. Then suppose all the manuals were online. Just about every curious bidder would come here and download a manual (I know I would!) and either that would be the end of the HP Museum or Dave would have to add more servers or Dave would have to make it members only. I think Dave's CD-ROMs are an ideal solution to that problem. (I know you have WebTV) For the life of me, I can't understand why anybody wouldn't see what an incredible bargain Dave's CD-ROMs are! (WebTV) Now that I've had my rant, here's an idea that just occurred to me: Audio CD players play MP3 CD-ROMs now (that's right, isn't it? Ordinary CD-ROMs with MP3 files stored on them?) And DVD players play audio CDs and MP3 CD-ROMs (same caveat) Why don't DVD players play CD-ROMs or DVDs with PDF files stored on them? (I don't mean "splain me why", I mean "who dropped the ball?"). Whatever happened to Kodak Photo-CD? I notice from the drug store ads in the Sunday papers that they have changed the name to something like "Picture CD". It used to be a CD-ROM or CD-R with JPG files stored on it. I know it takes someone to do it and usually they only do it if there's something in it for them. I've been wondering, who got the audio CD players to play MP3's? Certainly not the record industry! There was something called an "E-book" once. I've got a bulky handheld device somewhere that plays 3" CD-ROMs holding E-books. That was before PDF files (as far as I know). I feel as though I've heard of something completely different called an E-book lately. I suppose like everything else, it boils down to the ownership of content.

A few thoughts from the commercial pisser Message #10 Posted by Dave Hicks on 6 May 2003, 2:27 p.m., in response to message #9 by Ellis Easley Thanks for the comments Ellis. I did a calculation some years ago about the cost of putting the CDs on-line. I don't remember exactly, but the cost of bandwidth was much higher than the price that the CDs sell for. It's possible that bandwidth prices have come down since then but so have my prices - I'm now selling 4.5 GB of manuals for less than I used to sell 3GB. I read an article recently that said that the largest "bandwidth" provider in the world is "Netflix". A DVD mail-order rental place. ("Bandwidth" being measured in terms of the DVDs that they ship through the mail.) For now plastic is still cheaper for sending large amounts of data. A further complication is that when people ask for them to be on-line there is often an implication that this reduces or even removes the price. I couldn't afford this even when I was employed, but now it's even more important that the museum operate in the black. Some people may have noticed that my China pictures have been removed. They got "googled" and were starting to cost me a lot of money. For any collector of HPs, I feel that 7 cents per manual is a pretty good price. I realize that for a single manual, it may not be as cheap as one might hope (though still frequently lower than any other option) so I do intend to investigate some sort of single manual download capability. I have looked at some canned/simple solutions but so far, when you add up the various fees, they come out higher than I would like to sell a manual for. I'll keep looking and/or come up with some other solution. I'm fairly proud of the fact that my website has come through the dot bomb unscathed. It has never promised to make anyone millions of dollars - it doesn't even pay one person a reasonable wage, but unlike a lot of those high-flyers it actually manages to pay for its bandwidth and doesn't even need flashing ads plastered all over it. I put a lot of work into the CDs. When I was working my "day job" I was coming home and spending 6-8 hours a night on them for a couple of years. "Commercially" I would have been much better off spending that time on my "day job" which paid a heck of a lot better. I don't think it's unreasonable to request that the copyright be honored especially when someone specifically asks how I feel about it on my own site. Donald was disappointed by how this thread turned out and I was disappointed by how it started. That's life I guess.

this is a family site. lets say urinator Message #11 Posted by db(martinez,california) on 6 May 2003, 3:36 p.m., in response to message #10 by Dave Hicks that's a very libertarian attitude dave: you ARE allowed to have a hobby that doesn't really pay for itself if you want and we are NOT allowed to expect you to pay for ours. there was a lot of time (which equals money using a simple formula) invested in those discs. he asked, you declined permission. oh well. mr leonard; if you buy the disc you will eventually find a place to spin it and you will enjoy it.

You're right but... Message #12 Posted by Dave Hicks on 6 May 2003, 5:33 p.m., in response to message #11 by db(martinez,california) Commercial Urinator sounds like something found in a large men's room. ;-) Oh well, that's still better I suppose.

Re: Copy of Wand Manual from CD-Thank you Message #13 Posted by Donald Leonard on 7 May 2003, 1:56 a.m., in response to message #9 by Ellis Easley I have absolutely NO complaints either about this site or the value of the CD collection. I agree that the content is an absolute bargin at $30 - for someone who has the capability to read them. Surely you and others are not suggesting that someone who needs a copy of a manual should buy the CD('s) AND a computer to get it. Please do not lose sight of the fact that I mention the conditions I am having to work around in an attempt to reduce having to reply to suggestins which are impractical because of these conditions. One condition I have not mentioned is that I was forced to take early retirement due to a permenent physical condition, and my descretionary funds are extremely limited. Hence, I must find economical solutions to my problem. Doing and buying things I don't need is foolish. I deliberately omitted this because I didn't want the kind of comments I have just received. Give me a break! I originally thought that someone out there with a wand and manual might provide me with a scanned copy. Thinking further that there might be many more people with the CD set, I asked this group for help, which I received. What really surprised me, however, was the additional comments from others which resulted in absolutely no help and negative comments about my request and explanation of the conditions I have to work under. This has never happened before and I don't understand it. Perhaps I misundestood the acceptable limits of help allowed on this forum. If so, I appologize for exceeding these limits. I know that I will carefully reconsider any future request for help here. Don

Re: Copy of Wand Manual from CD-Thank you Message #14 Posted by Dave Hicks on 7 May 2003, 12:48 p.m., in response to message #13 by Donald Leonard "Surely you and others are not suggesting that someone who needs a copy of a manual should buy the CD('s) AND a computer to get it." It's an option. Old PCs which are capable of reading the CDS can be found for about the price (or less) that you paid for an extended IO module on ebay. PCs just aren't "collectable" which is good in this case. It doesn't have to be a PC. One forum contributor uses an Amiga that was given to him. PCs are just readily available and cheap. I've seen functional but old PCs in local thrift shops for $20. On the other hand, if you find a wand for sale with the manual included, that's great too. "Perhaps I misundestood the acceptable limits of help allowed on this forum. If so, I appologize for exceeding these limits." Yes that's paragraph 4 of the terms of use. Your apology is accepted. Let's move on. I mentioned to Ellis in an email last night that I had been thinking of offering to print it for you myself - ie you could order a CD (Just one not the whole set), send me an email reminder, and I would make and send you the print out. I decided not to offer that after your disappointment message, however, since we're back on good terms, I will make it now.

Re: Copy of Wand Manual from CD-Thank you Message #15 Posted by Donald Leonard on 7 May 2003, 7:09 p.m., in response to message #14 by Dave Hicks Any offer of assistance is appreciated, even those I deem unreasonable or unacceptable for previously stated reasons. My $104 purchase of the Ext-IO was a painful choice after watching months on ebay and being outbid on two prior offers. I really was shocked that I won that bid. I had no other choice in this purchase. I originaly thought that I had a chance to get the wand at a reasonable price if I purchased it w/o a manual. This forums communication clearily showed me that this approach is not going to happen. I do not view any of the suggestions offered as either reasonable or practical because: 1. I need 1 manual, not a library. 2. I do not need nor can I afford to buy a piece of equipment which is only usable TO ME to read one manual, even if it only costs $25-40. I personally view this as a ridiculous waste of money. 4. Until I have finished re-assembling my HP-41 system, all my available funds MUST be directed to this purpose, even if I now may have to bid higher on the item because no other solution is provided. I really did not intend to break term 4 of the regulations. In the future I will limit my request for help to question and answer type. Don

Re: Copy of Wand Manual from CD-Thank you Message #16 Posted by Dave Hicks on 7 May 2003, 9:49 p.m., in response to message #15 by Donald Leonard Hi Don, I just wanted to make sure you understood that my previous offer was for a printed manual. If you prefer ebay, that's fine but I wanted to make sure we're on the same page. Dave

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