HP Forum Archive 12

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What's with the HP 19Bii Message #1 Posted by Norm on 1 May 2003, 2:20 a.m. HI, perusing the calculator aisle-ways at different stores (just to see if it is really as hopeless as it seems) NOTICED THAT the HP-12C is NOT the only classic calculator remaining. There is an HP-19Bii on the shelves. Is this just leftover stock, or are they making more of them ? It's the style that folds out like a book. They wanted $150 for the sealed unit at the store, but on eBay they went for $250 - $300 . Is it discontinued, or not? Should I buy it and try to mark it up on eBay ? If anybody wants a modest pass-thru, let me know I could get it sent along to you...... Hmmmmmmmm......... noticing that of the ONLY 2 classic calculators kept on the shelves, BOTH are for the business school, NOT the engineering school. When I was aware that just the 12C was still on the shelves, I thought that to be an obscene enough example of bias against engineering. So, might this be more evidence of boardroom bias against engineers, favoring business majors and their calculators instead ??

Re: What's with the HP 19Bii Message #2 Posted by Ellis Easley on 1 May 2003, 3:41 a.m., in response to message #1 by Norm I believe the bean-counters want RPN for themselves. They think it impresses girls at cocktail parties.

It does impress them! Message #3 Posted by Gene on 1 May 2003, 7:33 a.m., in response to message #2 by Ellis Easley ha! :-) Gene

Re: What's with the HP 19Bii Message #4 Posted by Katie on 1 May 2003, 7:04 p.m., in response to message #2 by Ellis Easley If you want to impress me at a cocktail party, you'd better bring along your 95C. :)

Hmm... Nice girl, Place like this; What doing? ;-) Message #5 Posted by glynn on 1 May 2003, 7:58 p.m., in response to message #4 by Katie I was wondering what an RPN pickup line might be... LOL

RPN party pickup lines, Message #6 Posted by NH on 1 May 2003, 8:08 p.m., in response to message #5 by glynn Heyyyaaaaa Baaabeeeee, Wanna light up my digits ? Wanna push my 'enter' button ? How would you like me to load my data into your stack ? *slap* and she walks off.. hmmmmmmmmm

Nice girl. What a home decorator ! Message #7 Posted by Renato on 1 May 2003, 8:49 p.m., in response to message #5 by glynn http://www.wass.net/pictures/hp-1.JPG How would you like a decoration like this ?

Re: What's with the HP 19Bii Message #8 Posted by David Ramsey on 1 May 2003, 6:24 p.m., in response to message #1 by Norm Yes, the 19Bii is discontinued. It was never that popular, which is odd since it's much more powerful than the 12c. If you like that style of calc, grab one cheap while you can!

I could mail it..... Message #9 Posted by Norm on 1 May 2003, 8:13 p.m., in response to message #8 by David Ramsey I dont need an HP 19B ii, but if somebody wants a brand new one, I could get it from the store and send it along. I dont need a business calculator, I need an engineer's calculator. How does that work anyway, does it have an automatic button for determining the best stock price to screw somebody? Does it have an 'Enron' subroutine ? Like, does it tell U the best price to artificially inflate electrical contract futures in order to maximize your (illegal) rate of return? Do you like, hit "f" "Ford" "Firestone" and it tells you how many people need to die in rollovers before you sell your stock shares before the news of the lawsuit comes out? Do you like, hit "f" "Solve" "Hostile Takeover" "Share Price" and then it tells U the best price to make a hostile takeover stock offering and to maximize the returns to your own bank account ???? I mean, I presume it does things like that, if not, whats a business calculator good for anyway? :o)

'Bout the HP19BII... Message #10 Posted by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) on 1 May 2003, 10:52 p.m., in response to message #9 by Norm Hey, Norm; my regards to Captain Zener. I am an Electronic Engineer and I have an HP19BII. Did you know it does trigs and logs with hyperbolics? All most usual functions an engineer would like finding. It resembles the HP27 in this particular aspect, and it does RPN or algebraic, user selectable. 6.5K RAM and a user-friendly programming language (neither HP12C, nor RPN like). HP SOLVE and IR printer output included, and it also does graphics (fixed types). I like it, but of course, as I am an electrical engineer, there are other resources I'd like to have and there's no sense adding them to the HP19BII: complex, matrices, symbolic algebra... Oh, yes: appointments and clock/calendar. I like it. And it has the fancy clamshell look. Best regards. luiz C. Vieira - Brazil

Re: 'Bout the HP19BII... Message #11 Posted by Christof on 2 May 2003, 1:34 a.m., in response to message #10 by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) I have to agree with Luiz- I'e used my older chip-n-dent 19Bii as a minimalist travel PDA and done some pretty decent rough fieldwork with it (basic trig and stats stuff) I wouldn't try to analyze the circuits in my 200LX with it, but with the most excellent solver and IR printer I think you could do a fairly handy amount of serious field work. The 28S is still better, in the science department, but lack the easy test note taking and appointment modes useful in the lab. If they'd added a decent shifted keyboard layout with a pile o sci functions (beyond the trig basics it has) it would still be a world class machine.

Re: I could mail it..... Message #12 Posted by Hans Brueggemann on 2 May 2003, 2:33 a.m., in response to message #9 by Norm na! the one thing that accountants fear most are negative figures. that's why they need a special business calculator. so , essentially, the 19BII is a 28S with the "-" omitted. cheers, hans

ha ha, no minus sign Message #13 Posted by Norm on 2 May 2003, 4:03 a.m., in response to message #12 by Hans Brueggemann ha ha, the business calculator has no minus sign. NOW I get it.

What ?? I think I did not get it. Message #14 Posted by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) on 2 May 2003, 10:02 a.m., in response to message #12 by Hans Brueggemann Hello, guys; What does it mean? My HP19BII has a [+/-] key beside the [INPUT] key to change the signal of an existing (or being entered) number. Did I miss anything? Luiz C. Vieira - Brazil

Re: What ?? I think I did not get it. Message #15 Posted by Ron Ross on 2 May 2003, 10:11 a.m., in response to message #14 by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) You only think you have that KEY. Actually, I DO think there is a bug associated with that key in RPN mode. Therefore, you ARE NOT allowed to use SAID KEY.

How come? Message #16 Posted by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) on 2 May 2003, 1:18 p.m., in response to message #15 by Ron Ross Hello, Ron; I am with my HP19BII in hands right now and I tested the [+/-] key in both situations: entering a number and changing is signal from positive to negative while entering it and after it is in the stack and the [+/-] key works fine. I was not able to enter a negative exponent of ten, but you can always divide the previous entered number by a positive exponent of ten. Is that what you mean? Luiz C. Vieira - Brazil

missed our joke, Message #17 Posted by NH on 2 May 2003, 1:41 p.m., in response to message #16 by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) Hi Luiz, you seem to have missed our joke. We are trying to understand why anybody needs a business calculator. Perhaps one reason is because they only want positive results and no negative results. Therefore a business calculator has no negative sign. Go back to the post "I could mail it".

Re: missed our joke, Message #18 Posted by Ellis Easley on 3 May 2003, 5:51 a.m., in response to message #17 by NH Didn't the old mechanical adding machines have a big "+" key and a little "-" key? And you'll notice they didn't call them "subtracting machines"! Actually, I hadn't made this connection before, but I have always felt that adding machines worked like RPN, since the "+" key worked immediately (sometimes was marked "+/=", wasn't it?) - "postfix-wise", I guess. But what I haven't considered before is that maybe this is why accountants like (or accept or don't mind) RPN, and keep buying the 12C.

Re: How come? Message #19 Posted by Massimo Gnerucci (Italy) on 2 May 2003, 1:41 p.m., in response to message #16 by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) Luiz, of course your 19BII can handle negative numbers... it was only a joke on accountants: [what] accountants fear most are negative figures -> they don't like red numbers in their financial plans ;-) It is easy for us abroad to miss some joke. Cheers, Massimo

Re: How come? Message #20 Posted by Ron Ross on 2 May 2003, 3:12 p.m., in response to message #16 by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) (from Wlodek Mier-Jedrzejowicz) Early models of the HP19BII have a bug which is activated when the HP19BII is in RPN mode and the [+/-] and [x<>y] keys are pressed one after the other. A harmless way to see the bug is as follows: 1. Put a positive number on the stack, for example press the 9 key. 2. Change the sign by pressing the [+/-] key next to [INPUT]. 3. Exchange x and y by pressing the key with x<>y above it. 4. Now type a digit, for example 8; you will see a minus in front of it. (This is the bug; after +/- to change a positive number to negative, immediately followed by x<>y and a number, the number has a spurious minus sign placed in front of it.) 5. Press [INPUT] and you will see the number is really positive. 6. Type another number; it will again have a minus sign. 7. To deactivate the bug safely press CLEAR (the yellow key followed by the backarrow key). The bug is dangerous, if you get to step 4 and see a number which is negative though it should not be, you might be tempted to press the backarrow key to remove the number and the minus sign. Since the minus sign is not really there, if you try to delete it, you confuse the calculator - it stops for a moment, then clears the stack after you press the next key. If the next key you press is [ON], it sometimes displays the screen to choose a language, and when you choose a language, you get MEMORY LOST! The bug can also lock up your keyboard - in that case you should reset the calculator by pressing the ON key and the third key from the left in the top row both at the same time. If you ever see the bug, press CLEAR at once to kill it! There are some variations on the bug. If you press the backarrow key until only the minus sign is in the display, then press [INPUT] or try to use this minus sign, nothing will work except that the [-] key will put a second minus in the display. If you do steps 1 through 4, then press [+/-], x<>y, and a digit key again, you will see two minus signs, and you can repeat this process adding one more minus sign each time. If you press CLEAR now, then type a number, press [+/-], [INPUT], x<>y, [+/-], x<>y and then a digit key, you will see a zero (if the display mode is ALL) or a fraction mark (if the display mode is FIX) in front of the digit instead of a minus. The same bug exists in early HP17BII models, though it behaves a little differently. It was removed early in 1991. I Stole this explaination from Craig A. Finesth's description of the Hp19Bii. He has all sorts of information on all of the Hp calculators released. A very interesting site, no pictures, but lots of information.

Thank you! Message #21 Posted by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) on 2 May 2003, 4:23 p.m., in response to message #20 by Ron Ross Hey, guys! It seems a joke made the party over here. It remembers one of the Bee Gee's tops: "I started a joke..." About the bug: I was not aware about it. It seems dangerous, indeed. I also tried a way to enter numbers with negative exponents of ten and I was not successful. Also, if you press [SHIFT][E] without prior entering a valid "mantissa" in RPN mode, the calculator does not enter a '1E_' in the display, instead it waits for a message (?). Another bug? Wow! What do these boxes hide from us... Thanks again, Ron. Luiz C. Vieira - Brazil ('bout the joke: I am a sitting duck when jokes are the subject... I always try the serious way before noticing people are laghing. Then I laugh with them. What to do? I humbly accept the sitting duck condition.)

Re: Thank you! Message #22 Posted by Christof on 3 May 2003, 5:29 a.m., in response to message #21 by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) the bug fails for me, which is probably a good thing. I'ts still a grreat backup PDA, regardless ;)

HP-12C and HP 19Bii Message #23 Posted by Norm on 3 May 2003, 6:13 a.m., in response to message #22 by Christof If Carly-oni and her thugs dumped the HP 19Bii (it does appear to have been discontinued) well, then when are they going to dump the HP-12C ????? What's the big liking about the HP 19Bii ?? Is it that much different from HP-12C ?? Does it have a loyal following of stockbrokers, who are angry as the engineers about our favorite calculators getting trashed?

A question: Message #24 Posted by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) on 3 May 2003, 10:01 a.m., in response to message #22 by Christof Hello, Christof; have you tried to enter a number with a negative exponent of ten in the HP19BII (or 17BII) while in RPN mode? I did not try it hard, but I'd like to know if there is an "easier" way. Thanks. Luiz C. Vieira - Brazil

Re: A question: Message #25 Posted by Christof on 3 May 2003, 1:55 p.m., in response to message #24 by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) Luiz: In RPN mode 5 E - (minus sign) 10 <input> seems to work serial number on this one is: 3523S*****

The answer! Message #26 Posted by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) on 3 May 2003, 2:34 p.m., in response to message #25 by Christof Hello, Christof; if I try: 5 [E] [+/-] I get -5E If I try 5 [E] [-] I get: 5E- and that's what I wanted, thank you. Let me see if I got it: if I press [+/-] while entering a number it changes the mantissa sign; if I press [-] right after [E] it adds a minus sign to the exponent of ten; if I enter any digit after [-] in the exponent and decide it's positive, I have to clear whatever is entered, clear the minus sign and enter whatever was entered again. So, the [-] is a one-shot sign, and there is no key to actualy "change" the sign of the exponent. I never thought about using [-] key because it should perform the subtraction. Thank you again for showing me "the way to enter negative exponents of ten" in an HP17BII or 19BII in RPN (and even algbraic) mode. Best regards. Luiz C. Vieira - Brazil

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