The Museum of HP Calculators

HP Forum Archive 12

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Re: Pascal Handheld
Message #1 Posted by David Smith on 10 Apr 2003, 6:27 p.m.

I would hope that Pascal died the horrible and brutal death that it deserved. And C++ and Java will follow. Not to mention ADA.

      
Re: Pascal Handheld
Message #2 Posted by David Smith on 10 Apr 2003, 6:30 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by David Smith

And also FORTH... RPN is GREAT for calculators. It is a TERRIBLE idea for grown up computers. Even die-hard FORTH addicts cringe at the idea of having to go back and work on a program that they wrote a couple of years before.

            
ok, David, so now I'm curious
Message #3 Posted by glynn on 10 Apr 2003, 8:26 p.m.,
in response to message #2 by David Smith

Okay-- I'll bite:

If Pascal, C++, Java, Forth, ADA are all deserving of a horrible death, what should I go learn?

;-)

                  
Re: ok, David, so now I'm curious
Message #4 Posted by J.Manrique Lopez de la Fuente on 11 Apr 2003, 4:08 a.m.,
in response to message #3 by glynn

Hello,

With .NET Technology none language has death, you can use "past art". I recommend seeing a bit more here:

http://www.go-mono.com

It is .NET and it is Free (LGPL License), and it works in handhelds.

Best regards,

J.Manrique

#1077 HPCC Member

                  
Re: ok, David, so now I'm curious
Message #5 Posted by David Smith on 11 Apr 2003, 6:08 p.m.,
in response to message #3 by glynn

Good 'ole plain jane "C". ADA, C++, and Java have too much going on behind the scenes. A program that compiled to less than 4K in "C" was 1.8 meg in ADA, 290K in C++, and was never able to run in Java (200 lines of code in C, over 2000 in Java).

                        
Re: ok, David, so now I'm curious
Message #6 Posted by glynn on 11 Apr 2003, 8:51 p.m.,
in response to message #5 by David Smith

Hmm, and I even have a compiler or two for that.

(What do you think of slightly re-cast C's like Objective C?)

                              
Re: ok, David, so now I'm curious
Message #7 Posted by David Smith on 13 Apr 2003, 5:22 p.m.,
in response to message #6 by glynn

I've never used it, but suspect it has a lot of the evils of C++. I like my generated code plain, simple, and without any hanky-panky going on in some HUGE run time library.

                                    
Programming languages.
Message #8 Posted by Christof on 15 Apr 2003, 6:33 p.m.,
in response to message #7 by David Smith

There's nothing wrong with Forth even on a modern sunblade- it's fantastic.

.net is a 'world standard' only for *one* specific, tied down, locked in segment.

Java has its place, but I havne't found it yet.

C is great and fine, but hardly the end all be all- it's quite annoying, in fact.

Objective C is not C++ and assuming it must suck because C++ does is just ... well. you have your One True Language and Love It Dearly, but dont' denigrate *everyone* else on the planet for it.

Seriously, if I was going to set out to learn a language as a first timer today- I'd choose BASIC or RPL.

Laugh all you want, you CAN build quite good code on either if you pay attention to good coding practices. you also tend to have simple development environments (in a HP75C you have to turn it ON. comapre that to getting started coding in turboC with absolutely zero starting knowledge) and the machines tend to be available, cheap, lightweight, and portable. Simulators for RPL machines (48G mainly) and BASIC interpreters are available for just about every platform you could want, from my Model1 (admittedly, it doesn't do the RPL part) to my 200LX to my sunblade.

if you want to learn something shiny and new, C or perl. or python, which may not seem as evil to a person who isn't used ot the screwiness of older compiled languages like C.

of course, my all time first choise for learning is lisp. scheme, CLISP, or ELISP.

                                          
Re: Programming languages.
Message #9 Posted by David Smith on 17 Apr 2003, 7:19 p.m.,
in response to message #8 by Christof

Actually, I have used well over 100 programming languages plus assemblers for well over 50 processors. I have also written a half dozen compilers. I use the tool that best fits the job. If I was stranded on a desert island with one language it would definitely be "C".

I did not say that Objective C sucks, just that I have never used it but based on my experience with other "objective" languages would ASSUME that it had the same library bloat/virtual machine/semi-interpretive execution that goes along with the object based programming model.


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