HP Forum Archive 08

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Re: is the 32SII really gone? Message #1 Posted by Christof (US) on 2 May 2002, 11:54 a.m. Interestingly, the university had *one* hp48gx in the old style box which has disappeared in the past 3 days. (At 149.99, it wasn't exactly a screaming deal) They have a half dozen GXs in blisterpack now, I'm curious to see how long that lasts. (and in this case, I think I'd rather find a good used one before they cost as much as a 71b) Looking at California educational materials (ag programs and university literature), the only place hp calculators are still mentioned much is business and accounting courses. (off topic, I wonder about calculator development in general. the ti stuff is not new- the 89 is a test-legal 92+ and the 83+silver is only a sped up 83. Casio has released some actual *new* product since 2000, but I don't know their history well.) Looks like eventually I'll be stuck with some pen based pda software. -Christof

Is the 83+ Silver a worthwhile development target? Message #2 Posted by Paul Brogger on 2 May 2002, 4:03 p.m., in response to message #1 by Christof (US) I looked into TI calculators recently -- the 83+ Silver has quite a bit of flash ROM and a free development kit available. I wonder whether an RPN interface would be hard to insert betwixt the keys and the functions? Has anyone else looked at this?

Re: Is the 83+ Silver a worthwhile development target? Message #3 Posted by aruid on 2 May 2002, 4:49 p.m., in response to message #2 by Paul Brogger The TI-89 does have a special add-on program avaliable free on from the internet that creates a stack much like that of the HP 49g ARUID

Re: Is the 83+ Silver a worthwhile development target? Message #4 Posted by Christof (US) on 3 May 2002, 12:13 a.m., in response to message #3 by aruid I've seen this for the TI83 and the 89/92 machines. It's a rather nice way to put rpn on the TI. I still have issues with the TI keyboard, serial, lack of ir, and implementation of basic. -Christof

Re: Is the 83+ Silver a worthwhile development target? Message #5 Posted by Tom (UK) on 3 May 2002, 3:32 a.m., in response to message #4 by Christof (US) Christof Christof said: "I still have issues with the TI keyboard, serial, lack of ir, and implementation of basic." Were you talking about the TI or the HP49G? q:^) Tom.

How about hplike palms? Message #6 Posted by Christof(US) on 3 May 2002, 12:19 a.m., in response to message #2 by Paul Brogger I've occasionally used an rpn calc on the visor called "RPN". I'd like to see (or find, if they are there) some kind of workalike to the 41, 32sii, and even (wouldn't it be nice?) the 28s. Is any of this out there? -Christof

Re: How about hplike palms? Message #7 Posted by Holger Veit on 3 May 2002, 3:35 a.m., in response to message #6 by Christof(US) There are some RPN emulators for the palm, however, they are either not worthwhile, or in the case of "Coconut", effectively unavailable shareware. Particularly for the Coconut which free crippleware version looks promising, I haven't been able to buy it at Palmgear - the author does not react to any email to send me the license code for the ordered version. I eventually canceled the order and withdraw the already billed creadit card payment. So, if anyone tries to order there be aware that this author is completely unreliable and unresponsive.

Re: How about hplike palms? Message #8 Posted by Dave on 3 May 2002, 10:52 a.m., in response to message #7 by Holger Veit Hardly my experience where I got real quick registration codes and several personal replies to my queries. Though a bit slow I highly recommend this program as a neat 41 emulator.

Re: How about hplike palms? Message #9 Posted by Chris Roccati on 3 May 2002, 5:27 p.m., in response to message #7 by Holger Veit If you need an HP41 emulator for the PalmOS platform, I'd recomend P41CV (http://www.palmgear.com/software/showsoftware.cfm?prodID=40123), It only emulates a 41CV, and does not have all the fancy function you can find in Coconut, but it's far faster (slightly faster than the real HP41, on my 505) and slightly cheaper.

Re: How about hplike palms? Message #10 Posted by Holger Veit (DE) on 4 May 2002, 3:21 p.m., in response to message #7 by Holger Veit In a followup to my own post, I think it is necessary to add an apology. Due to the post, the author of Coconut has meanwhile contacted me and we are going to negotiate terms of payment and delivery again. Apparently, there have been some email transmission problems between me and him, hard to track afterwards, but I definitely have to withdraw my opinion resulting from the failed transaction and the observed unresponsiveness in the followup. Mr. Abel is definitely not unreliable - there has been just some kind of misunderstanding and/or repeated e-mail connection faults which caused the problem. My opinion that Coconut is quite a good piece of work (depending on my experiences with the freeware version) of course remains valid. Again, my apology, Mr. Abel.

A classic case of a great HP user group when HP quits designing!! Message #11 Posted by Frank on 3 May 2002, 11:43 a.m., in response to message #2 by Paul Brogger We talk about the dregs that are left!!

Re: A classic case of a great HP user group when HP quits designing!! Message #12 Posted by Paul Brogger on 3 May 2002, 1:21 p.m., in response to message #11 by Frank True enough. Compared to the legendary, fondly-remembered HP quality, "dregs" probably applies. But if you're looking for a discrete, customizable, currently-manufactured, shirt-pocket device with (halfway decent) buttons, the TI-83+ Silver may be hard to beat: 1.5M Flash ROM, Z-80 processor, Zilog assembly language development environment (free), a Windows emulator/debugger (free) from TI, and 500+ pages of PDF documentation (free). I'm reexamining just exactly why I'd like to play around at that level in my spare time (rather than right-brain stuff like, say, practice guitar or try Chinese brush calligraphy). But if making a connectible shirt-pocket device "sing my tune" is really what I want to do, I think (as of now) I'd be heading in this direction.

Don't do it Paul! Message #13 Posted by Ron Ross on 3 May 2002, 2:33 p.m., in response to message #12 by Paul Brogger At least step up to a Ti-86 or Ti-89. Actually a Ti-86 is cheaper than the Ti-83 silver. The Ti-83 series has a few draw backs. Perhaps you should read this:http://www.rskey.org/buyguide.html I admit it is dated, but I feel you would be better served by a somewhat higher model. I admit the Ti-83 is probably better than a Casio or Sharp for programming, but it lacks what I feel are key elements for a super deluxe calculator such as: No units conversions built in No Hex,Dec,BIN conversions Only single letter variables 24K RAM limit for programs (though not a big drawback for most applications at the calculator level) The first two are overcome by third party software, BUT WHY didn't the calc just come with this? The single letter 27 variable limit is impossible to overcome. Yes, it is fast, and you can store lots of programs, but why not buy a Ti-89 for a few dollars more? Or save a few bucks and buy a Ti-86 which may be somewhat slower but has more capability aside from the Statistics package of the Ti-83 (Which is better than any Ti and perhaps even better than the Hp49). Ti has made statistics a Free download for all calculators higher than the Ti-83. Just my opinion.

Re: Maybe Paul will do it! Message #14 Posted by Paul Brogger on 3 May 2002, 3:25 p.m., in response to message #13 by Ron Ross Single-letter variables and 24K RAM may be limitations for TI-Basic, but if one goes the Z-80 Assembler route, the 83 gives most of its 1.5Mb of Flash ROM to play with. The lack of units conversions is truly puzzling, but if one wants to convert it to a keystroke-programmable RPN machine, adding units conversions should be relatively simple. The only reason to go to TI and not stick with HP is in the hope of ongoing availability of similar devices. [Of course, with TI's traditional level of durability, that's an absolute REQUIREMENT! ;-) ] The only reason to mess with it at all is to experiment with simpler small-environment programming interfaces -- perhaps graphical representation of program constructs and hyperlinks to code blocks. As powerful as RPL is, it sure looks ugly on the small screen! Whatever -- if I bother with this at all, I'll be looking for supported functionality in a small package. If HP has chosen not to provide it, better to get past the whining and move on.

Re: Don't do it Paul! Message #15 Posted by Christof (US) on 3 May 2002, 5:41 p.m., in response to message #13 by Ron Ross Isn't that review for a ti83 and not the plus silver? And, as far as TI goes, the pure utility of the 83+sil seems to beat the 89. The 89 is bigger and better, but the keyboard bites big time. The fact that both fall short of the *usability* of my 28c (aside from the lack of rs232) would be easier to live with if i could get a 28c upgraded to reasonably modern specs. :p Give me nice buttons, dedicated a-z keys, memory and comms, and RPL and I won't care WHO makes it. -Christof

Re: Don't do it Paul! (89 does look interesting . . . ) Message #16 Posted by Paul Brogger on 7 May 2002, 8:55 p.m., in response to message #13 by Ron Ross Mr. Ross: Your buying guide is nicely done. Thanks. Apart from the memory, functional, and (TI-Basic) variable-naming differences to which you allude, I think the most interesting difference in the two is that the TI-83+ is Z-80 based (with only Z-80 Assembler available) while the TI-89 is Motorola 68000-based (!) with both an Assembler AND a C compiler in its SDK. While it has half the Flash ROM of the 83+ Silver, it offers more RAM, and a higher-resolution LCD. (Not to mention, the 83+ Silver is double-plus unpretty!) You seem quite knowlegeable in this area. Tell me what you think: Could either of these be modified to behave as if it was a "native" RPN machine? Could it do so on "power-up", or would one start a never-ending application that would handle most/all possible keystrokes? (Maybe that would amount to the same thing.) If I had your email address I'd take this offline. (Maybe I should ask these questions on one of the TI Developers' Boards?) Thanks for your interest and thoughtful response so far.

Re: Don't do it Paul! (89 does look interesting . . . ) Message #17 Posted by Matt Kernal (US) on 8 May 2002, 6:51 p.m., in response to message #16 by Paul Brogger I picked up a used TI89 to see what all the fuss was about (and mainly because it was only $40!). I was curious about the speed, Flash, and general "TI" user interface. Except for the speed, I pretty much hated EVERYTHING about it. Within a day or so, I was about to get rid of it. That is, until I downloaded Lars Frederiksen's RPN program for the TI89. It actually transformed the TI into something that is now quite fascinating: a truly FAST RPN calculator that has very nice running history stack on the left edge of screen. Until I loaded this program, I didn't realize how 1) slow calculations (ie. "garbage collection") were actually taking on my 48G/49G. And 2) the history stack really does help you "see" the RPN calculations as you have always known how the stack worked "in your head". I am a dyed-in-the-wool HP RPN calculator fan, but this very nice implementation of RPN on the "enemy's" machine is something to see. So far, I've only used the TI as a four-banger RPN calculator. The RPN program for the TI89 can be downloaded from Lar's website: http://www.perez-franco.com/symbulator/download/rpn.html Just my observations, Matt

Re: A classic case of a great HP user group when HP quits designing!! Message #18 Posted by Frank on 3 May 2002, 4:48 p.m., in response to message #12 by Paul Brogger Had a few ti-89's, just never kept one. Maybe a 89+, faster with more mem and better display (hear that TI, probably not!) will be a keeper. Traded the last new 89 with conectivity kit I had planned to keep and maybe use a little for *two* perfect 49G with manuals on the traders suggestion, he needed it for a class. Would anyone else here have *not* done that trade?

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