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HP To Resume calculator Production
Message #1 Posted by Griggsby Malone on 21 Feb 2002, 8:36 p.m.

Hello:

The long awaited announcement is due out of HP next month.

Hp will resume calculator production with a "Next Generation" HP41-based product.

Stay tuned, your prayers are answered.

Griggsby in Sydney

      
Re: HP To Resume calculator Production
Message #2 Posted by Frank on 21 Feb 2002, 9:04 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Griggsby Malone

Now that will be great news. Wonder if they can get the big box stores to stock hps again? I guess HP web store and Amazon would work just fine anyway.

      
HP-43 ??? Was: HP To Resume calculator Production
Message #3 Posted by Massimo Gnerucci (Italy) on 21 Feb 2002, 9:09 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Griggsby Malone

HP-43 ???
I wish I could buy one in the near future!

Massimo

            
Re: HP-43 ??? Was: HP To Resume calculator Production
Message #4 Posted by Griggsby Malone on 21 Feb 2002, 10:15 p.m.,
in response to message #3 by Massimo Gnerucci (Italy)

I have no further details except that the machine will resemble the 41 (this time with a black magnesium case), have bays to accept the old plug ins, and drive the IL peripherals. It will also run, via an internal emulator, the old HP programs.

However! it will have a serial connector like the 48/49 & HP will be tailoring its applications & hardware to the serial port- NOT producing more IL stuff. So it is not totally Christmas for you guys.

The production run will be in response to a "ridiculously large outcry" for such a product and it will not be cheap. On an inflation- adjusted basis, expect it to be 30%-40% more expensive than the old 41CX. Hey, HP likes to make a buck too.

Griggsby in Sydney

                  
Re: HP-43 ??? Was: HP To Resume calculator Production
Message #5 Posted by John on 21 Feb 2002, 10:25 p.m.,
in response to message #4 by Griggsby Malone

Will it be a RPN calculator or Algebraic entry??? I hope it'll be RPN (of course).

                        
Re: HP-43 ??? Was: HP To Resume calculator Production
Message #6 Posted by Griggsby Malone on 21 Feb 2002, 10:34 p.m.,
in response to message #5 by John

RPN of course. They have not lost their minds ;)

The keyboard will be very similar to the old 41

GM in AU

                              
another bristshisim?
Message #7 Posted by db(martinez,california) on 21 Feb 2002, 11:01 p.m.,
in response to message #6 by Griggsby Malone

a)is this what the brits would call "taking the piss out of us"? (in american: goofing on us)

b)dave: whats your take on this? do we need to start saving our lunch money or is this from that lesser god or some other known prankster?

                  
Re: HP-43 ??? Was: HP To Resume calculator Production
Message #8 Posted by Frank on 22 Feb 2002, 7:25 a.m.,
in response to message #4 by Griggsby Malone

Let's see, 30%-40% more than the 41CX on an inflation adjusted basis? I don't have an inflation table, someone that does can please do the exact math from the Release and Price of the CX. Would that put it around $1000-$1200 or the price of a decent laptop? More than I would want to invest considering Jornada and other consumer electronics prices. The 200-400 range would be nice.

                        
Re: HP-43 ??? Was: HP To Resume calculator Production
Message #9 Posted by Griggsby Malone on 22 Feb 2002, 9:03 a.m.,
in response to message #8 by Frank

I do not remember the closing price on a CX in 1990 (does anyone?).

Assuming it was $200 and we use US inflatio rate of about 3% over twelve years, I get $285.15 for the PV of 200 at 3%.

Assume a 35% markup and I get $384.95.

G in AU

                              
Re: HP-43 ??? Was: HP To Resume calculator Production
Message #10 Posted by Frank on 22 Feb 2002, 9:17 a.m.,
in response to message #9 by Griggsby Malone

The inflation rate in the early 80's was higher, seems like last I looked it was nearly double figures from 1980 to current. I used $395 MSRP (41 msrp)though the real figure for the 41cx msrp may be less. With the 30%-40% add you suggested, bingo, over a Grand!

                                    
Re: HP-43 ??? Was: HP To Resume calculator Production
Message #11 Posted by Griggsby Malone on 22 Feb 2002, 9:33 a.m.,
in response to message #10 by Frank

No way.

In the early 1980's it was much higher ()thank you, Jimmy Carter!) but the calculator was discontinued in 1990. The count starts from the discontinuation date not the date it was introduced. I can tell you that 1990 to present 3% is reasonable, 4% is too high.

I remember seeing list prices on the 41 in the range of $200. Maybe $225 at the time of discontinuation. "Street " prices were less (I used to sell them at my college bookstore for about $180).

HP will be selling it for not more than $400. At 1000 nobody would buy it.

GM in AU

                                          
Re: HP-43 ??? Was: HP To Resume calculator Production
Message #12 Posted by Frank on 22 Feb 2002, 9:39 a.m.,
in response to message #11 by Griggsby Malone

We can look up the real inflation figures. I was still getting 12-17% on CD's in the early-mid 80's. The $325 was the MSRP for the 41CX in 1983 according to HPMOC.

      
Re: HP To Resume calculator Production
Message #13 Posted by Albert Graef on 21 Feb 2002, 11:20 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Griggsby Malone

Ah yes, I guess the announcement will be made on 04-01? ;-)

      
Re: HP To Resume calculator Production
Message #14 Posted by Les Bell (Sydney) on 22 Feb 2002, 1:40 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Griggsby Malone

Huh? Announcment expected, oh, say around 1st April?

--- Les [http://www.lesbell.com.au]

(But if it's true, I'll be right in the queue . . .)

      
Re: Will HP introduce a calculator compatible with the HP48GX?
Message #15 Posted by Frank Travis on 22 Feb 2002, 8:32 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Griggsby Malone

I have ideas for a next generation calculator with the capability of accepting the bulk of the plug-in card and keyboard overlays of the HP48GX (and to some extent the HP 48SX). I have two working HP48GX calculators and one working HP48SX. I have been doing an entensive self-study of calculator features. Right now I have just general ideas. Would it worth pursuing a patent if I come up specific ideas? Any feedback or suggestions would be welcomed.

            
HP43 or hoax???
Message #16 Posted by Iqbal on 22 Feb 2002, 1:26 p.m.,
in response to message #15 by Frank Travis

I sent an email to Jean-Yves asking him about the recent posting above by Griggsby Malone, and here is his exact reply "With the latest information I got, this is all crap. There's nothing around and there's no calculator department anymore".

So I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

      
Re: HP To Resume calculator Production
Message #17 Posted by Paul Davenport on 25 Feb 2002, 12:14 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Griggsby Malone

Hello:

I used to work for HP in Financial Planning. We DID in fact budget for this activity for 2002. Whether or not they are actually going to do it, I do not know, but substantial resources were allocated.

Paul in MN

            
Re: HP To Resume calculator Production
Message #18 Posted by Frank on 26 Feb 2002, 4:00 p.m.,
in response to message #17 by Paul Davenport

Is the design complete and was the bugget for molds/tooling/artwork? Frank

            
Re: HP To Resume calculator Production
Message #19 Posted by William L. Drylie on 28 Feb 2002, 6:05 p.m.,
in response to message #17 by Paul Davenport

That is without a doubt the best thing that I have heard in a long time. I will buy 10 of those machines myself!! And that, hp , you can take to the bank.

                  
Re: HP To Resume calculator Production
Message #20 Posted by Håkan Thörngren on 1 Mar 2002, 6:05 a.m.,
in response to message #19 by William L. Drylie

I will believe this when I see it, not before.

I would base such design around an ARM core. It would be fast enough to emulate the rather slow HP41 processor at full speed (some instructions would probably be slower, but it can easily catch up elsewhere).

Software wise, such design would be pretty simple and straightforward. I doubt the hardware would be that complicated either, simulating the bus might make it a little bit worse, but not hard.

Some built in peripherals like the display would probably be different, but that can be easily adapted in the emulator software.

From an economical viewpoint it would certainly cost a substansial amount of money to start producing a new HP41 or HP43 (or whatever they would choose to call it). The cheap part is the software, starting a production line is what costs.

This (as usual) sums up to the fact that HP would have to sell a rather large amount of these machines to break even. Something I would doubt myself if I were HP. A high price and good profit margins (sell only direct via the web) could help that somewhat.

When they are at it, why not make it of a very high build quality to motivate a very high price. That is what people want anyway...

A nice collectors box and leather pouch would also be nice. Then you can always produce variants of it for the collectors market.

Count me in for one for a start, and if I like it, a couple of spares...

                        
Re: HP To Resume calculator Production
Message #21 Posted by Chris Roccati on 1 Mar 2002, 4:27 p.m.,
in response to message #20 by Håkan Thörngren

> I would base such design around an ARM core. It would be fast > enough to emulate the rather slow HP41 processor at full speed (some > instructions would probably be slower, but it can easily catch up > elsewhere).

I'd like to point out that the opensource HP41 emulator "nsim" already outperforms a real HP41 by a factor of nearly a degree of magnitude on a 40MHz 68040...

Anyway I don't really see an HP41 emulator as a real solution -- it sounds quite likely these die-hard amiga aficionados running amiga emulators on their pc and pretending that it is the newborn amiga...

            
Re: HP To Resume calculator Production
Message #22 Posted by Tito Castro (from Chile) on 1 Mar 2002, 2:55 p.m.,
in response to message #17 by Paul Davenport

As far as i know HP closed the ACO (Australian Calculator Operation) long ago. Well, i think most of you knew that from comp.sys.hp48 or from http://www.hpcalc.org/goodbyeaco.php I just wanted to post this because i am a big hp calculators fan. And i´m very grateful to all the people who developed them, wrote every document available and all the people at comp.sys.hp48 I was very excited when i knew about the Expander, though i had some complaints and ideas on how to make it better. But well, as always some economic constraints limited the development of new amazing devices. I would really like to believe that there´s something else coming. Something new, with the good things from the past, and capabilities to be flexible enough to adapt to every user. But, as someone said here. I won´t beleive it until i see something concrete. Best regards from Chile.

Tito Castro. tito@vtr.net icq: 37398472 msn: titocas@hotmail.com

                  
Re: HP To Resume calculator Production
Message #23 Posted by Les Bell (Sydney) on 1 Mar 2002, 7:50 p.m.,
in response to message #22 by Tito Castro (from Chile)

If - *if* - HP is planning to launch a new calculator in the mold of the venerable 41C family, then it strikes me that ACO might know nothing of it. I've been saying for years, including by email to HP directly, that their calculator line is now almost entirely composed of graphing calculators for use in schools, with only the 32SII to meet the calcualating - as opposed to computing - needs of technical professionals.

A few years ago, I bought a 48GX and tried to learn to love it, I really did. But frankly, it's too big and complicated to use as a calculator, and too clumsy and underpowered to use for more sophisticated work, for which my computers run rings around it. The 49, in particular, has always struck me as the Edsel of the calculator world.

I went back to using my 41CV/CX pair, with the 82143A for printing. And I think many people here feel the same way; the 48 series was 'a bridge too far' for HP, and the simpler RPN keystroke programmables seem to be 'just right' for hand-held use.

The staff at ACO were all tremendous 48 enthusiasts; they were heavily into the CAS and related stuff and if marketing was to tell them that what users wanted was something simpler, along the lines of the 41, I doubt very much that they could take that message on board and act upon it. In that case, it's likely that any new calculator was born somewhere else in HP, and ACO's services were no longer required.

Perhaps somebody at HP has finally realised that the best technology, the most appropriate technology, is not necessarily the most complex or function-rich technology.

Best,

--- Les [http://www.lesbell.com.au]

                        
Re: HP To Resume calculator Production
Message #24 Posted by Spice_Man on 2 Mar 2002, 12:41 a.m.,
in response to message #23 by Les Bell (Sydney)

Perhaps HP decided that their Palmtop group can handle all the calculator development and support, and abandoned the ACO group to cut costs.

                        
Re: HP To Resume calculator Production
Message #25 Posted by Michael on 2 Mar 2002, 12:05 p.m.,
in response to message #23 by Les Bell (Sydney)

YES!!! You have hit the nail squarely on the head. I bought my 48G my freshman year of college and gave up my 42S (biggest mistake of my life), and I was never able to feel comfortable with the 48. The 42 on the other hand was like an extension of my brain. There is something to be profound to be said for purpose built utility over great flexibility in an instrument. I don't think the ACO ever got that concept - everything post 42S did just not embody what made HP calcs so superior.

      
Re: HP To Resume calculator Production
Message #26 Posted by J.Manrique on 1 Mar 2002, 10:38 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Griggsby Malone

It seems to be true..

At least our calculator provider here at Spain confirmed me that new models are expected for this year as European HP Manager told them..

Keep conected...

Cheers, J.Manrique

PS:They talked about new models, no which line of type ..

            
Re: HP To Resume calculator Production
Message #27 Posted by Wlodek Mier-Jedrzejowicz on 2 Mar 2002, 6:40 p.m.,
in response to message #26 by J.Manrique

Well, if the new model is to be based on the HP-41, let's hope they'll produce one based on the HP-15C too - and maybe even the HP-16C :-) I spent much time talking to ACO people about restarting the HP-15C, since the HP-12C is still made, but they had several good excuses for not doing this.

Will the "43" allow Synthetic Programming? Time to start updating my HP-41 book? ;-)

Best Wishes,

Wlodek Mier-Jedrzejowicz

                  
Re: HP To Resume calculator Production
Message #28 Posted by Karl Hafen -UT USA on 2 Mar 2002, 11:00 p.m.,
in response to message #27 by Wlodek Mier-Jedrzejowicz

OK Here is an idea.

How about a nice magnesium calculator 'base' with a flash rom a nice backlit display, a good solid keyboard with exchangeable keys. You would flash the rom and pop in the appropriate keys and you have whatever calculator you want

                  
Re: HP To Resume calculator Production
Message #29 Posted by Ex-PPC member on 3 Mar 2002, 2:14 a.m.,
in response to message #27 by Wlodek Mier-Jedrzejowicz

Wlodek Mier-Jedrzejowicz wrote:

>>> "Well, if the new model is to be based on the HP-41, let's hope they'll produce one based on the HP-15C too - and maybe even the HP-16C :-)"

Frankly, a model based on the 42S would be the perfect choice, as the 42S was more or less a 41 with all the extended math functions and capabilities the 15C had (such as matrices and complex numbers, solve, integrate) plus assorted functions from the 16C as well. I for one would prefer such a 42SX instead of a 41C/15C/16CX, though come to think of it, adding some extra functions from the 41CX, such as timer, alarms, and text editing functions would make a sure winner.

>>> "Time to start updating my HP-41 book? ;-)"

Talking about updates, why don't you think about it a little and 'update' a new (4th) version of your wonderful HP Collector Guide ? With more details on every model ? With more photographs ? With updated prices (badly needed !) ? With lots of trivia ? I've read the 3rd edition so many times I could recite it from memory :-)

Best Wishes as well.

      
Now, it's up to us!
Message #30 Posted by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) on 4 Mar 2002, 8:09 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Griggsby Malone

Hi;

I've been out for a while, but this needs attention.

We all have been discussing how RPN and Algebraics affected our own professional lives and daily activities. We (at least almost) all have also discussed if calculators will prevail or not (I myself feel fine using both calcs and computers, each at its time). We all know and understand our own needs for this and that computing tool, and calculators are THE tool sometimes, not PDA's, not Laptops, not desktops. Algebraics, RPN, no matter: they have their use.

In 1995 I wrote a book about both HP41 and HP48, and I intend doing whatever is needed to show anybody how do calculators work and to use them. I saw Wlodek's post and just the mentioning of his name brought me back to 1985, when HP41 was much more than the calculator's reference: it was a whole way of computing. Some used to tremble when listening to it.

I'll keep it in mind. And I am sure everyone in here that believes something can be done will do it. I'll buy the new model to learn how to use it and to teach (if needed) anyone who want to learn how to use it. Even if I am not going to effectively use it.

Comments?

            
Re: Now, it's up to us!
Message #31 Posted by Nenad Vulic (Croatia) on 4 Mar 2002, 9:11 a.m.,
in response to message #30 by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil)

Welcome back old friend, Luiz Claudio!

I would just like to fully support your opinion expressed in the above response. All the mentioned devices are really tools which find their implementation, one tool in one situation, the other one in another situation, etc.

I am also feeling impatient to see which new calculator (if any) would come out, after all those depressive news (closing of ACO, etc.).

                  
Re: Now, it's up to us!
Message #32 Posted by Wlodek Mier-Jedrzejowicz on 6 Mar 2002, 6:41 p.m.,
in response to message #31 by Nenad Vulic (Croatia)

Thanks to those who asked about my books - and to others who have written books! I'm planning a 4th edition of the HP calculator guide, but want to produce a CD-ROM with lots more pictures too, and that takes time :-)

If the new model _is_ anything like an HP-41, then there are lots of good books that could be dusted down and rewritten for it. Built-in CX functions like Time and Extended Functions, as well as 41 and 42 functions, would really make a superb calculator for those of us who want an RPN calculator with keys, not a PDA program.

Best wishes again,

Wlodek

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