HP Forum Archive 06

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How to get a ROM image Message #1 Posted by Dale Richmond on 21 Aug 2001, 8:03 p.m. I have a Zenrom module and would like to get a ROM image to use in a 41CV emulator. Unfortunately I have no idea how to do this. I do have a 9114B disk drive and IL loop for the 41. Any assistance would be appreciated, Thanks, Dale Richmond

Re: How to get a ROM image Message #2 Posted by John Ioannidis on 22 Aug 2001, 5:02 p.m., in response to message #1 by Dale Richmond Doesn't the ZENROM have functions for reading a ROM? something along the lines of ROM>X? Do a CAT 2 and see what functions you have. Also, look in old PPC Journals. When you manage to read it, please post it! /ji

Re: How to get a ROM image Message #3 Posted by Mike (Stgt) on 23 Aug 2001, 1:36 p.m., in response to message #1 by Dale Richmond With the ZEN-ROM you may only print a disassembly listing to a printer in trace mode. You would need a MLDL to make a little routine to jump over the ZEN-ROM's test for a printer in trace mode, so to use the disk drive as primary device and send the disassemly to disk (a X-IO module would be of great help). Much simpler is to use a RAM-Box and it's WRTPG function to save a ROM image to disk. The simplest way is to look around in the internet. I was told that there are some ROM images arround. But I dont know where, as I did all the images of the modules I have long time ago. On my homepage I do not offer them for legal reasons. Ciao.....Mike

Re: How to get a ROM image Message #4 Posted by John Ioannidis on 23 Aug 2001, 6:46 p.m., in response to message #3 by Mike (Stgt) > On my homepage I do not offer them for legal reasons. Hewlett-Packard has placed all HP41-related stuff in the public domain. /ji

Re: How to get a ROM image Message #5 Posted by Michael Tjebben on 23 Aug 2001, 7:16 p.m., in response to message #4 by John Ioannidis I'm not familiar with the Zenrom, but isn't it from Zengrange? Perhaps then it's not in the public domain if it's not from HP?

Re: How to get a ROM image Message #6 Posted by Jim L on 23 Aug 2001, 9:25 p.m., in response to message #4 by John Ioannidis Really? Last I heard ACO was very protective of all of the old stuff and wasn't giving permission for anything.

Re: How to get a ROM image Message #7 Posted by Mike (Stgt) on 24 Aug 2001, 7:36 a.m., in response to message #4 by John Ioannidis Without permission in written by HP (or the third party that ordered the module at HP) I would not publish the ROM images. So I would be glad about a hint where to find a notice from HP that HP-41 stuff is public domain. AFAIK it's NOMAS. Is that enough to be allowed to pulish ROM images of all HP modules? And what about Bobby Schenks Yacht Modul, the CCD-Module, Squid's Bar Code Module (I'm still looking for that one), Rambox from W&W, the PPC-ROM, the PANAME and so on? There should be a permission for these third party modules too before publishing those ROM images. IMHO the case is a bit different if you own a module or a calculator. Then I may "make" the ROM image for you (if you offer something I am looking for). Ciao.....Mike

Re: How to get a ROM image Message #8 Posted by Dave Hicks on 24 Aug 2001, 11:27 a.m., in response to message #7 by Mike (Stgt) "AFAIK it's NOMAS. Is that enough to be allowed to pulish ROM images of all HP modules?" Most NOMAS documents also say "Copyright HP". (I believe that under current copyright law - everything is assumed to be copyrighted even if that isn't stated.) Whether something is supported doesn't tell you if it's copyrighted. I'm not aware of HP ROMs being in the public domain and several requests to redistribute them have been denied.

Re: How to get a ROM image Message #9 Posted by John Ioannidis on 25 Aug 2001, 10:41 p.m., in response to message #8 by Dave Hicks How can so many HP manuals and rom images be on the HP museum CD set? Does the museum curator have an agreement with HP? /ji

Re: How to get a ROM image Message #10 Posted by Dave Hicks on 26 Aug 2001, 4:51 p.m., in response to message #9 by John Ioannidis Correct.

Re: How to get a ROM image Message #11 Posted by Mike (Stgt) on 28 Aug 2001, 5:37 a.m., in response to message #10 by Dave Hicks But as I interpret the CD's table of contents there is only documentation for the ROMs, no ROM image ready to run in an emulator or RamBox. And I assume the VASM listings are not convertable for such "misuse". Ciao.....Mike

Re: How to get a ROM image Message #12 Posted by Dave Hicks on 28 Aug 2001, 2:15 p.m., in response to message #11 by Mike (Stgt) There are listings for a few of the modules (about 5) but most are just manuals. The listings that are there are pure RPN/user code like you'd find in the applications manuals for other calculators. Several people (including me) have asked for permission to copy machine code but we've been turned down. A person could type in the source code from some of the published listings but the code would still be copyright HP so he couldn't distribute it without permission.

Re: How to get a ROM image Message #13 Posted by Mike (Stgt) on 29 Aug 2001, 3:56 a.m., in response to message #12 by Dave Hicks Thank you for clarification. When I have some time left I'll ask HP once again. Ciao.....Mike

Re: How to get a ROM image - I have a question Message #14 Posted by Vieira, Luiz C. on 29 Aug 2001, 7:36 a.m., in response to message #10 by Dave Hicks Hello; Please, excuse my lack of understanding. Is it correct that a 41’s module ROM image can be used to create a copy of the module itself or add its features to an emulator? Both are not legally allowed, I know; instead, my question is: where else can a ROM image be used? I really don’ t know. Unless its code is converted to another CPU´s machine language and adapted to run in another OS, I cannot see other way to use it. Would anyone help me understanding? I have seen so many follow-ups since Mr. Richmond's first request that I do not know anymore what is the real matter. I have read a lot of good answers, questions, opinions, and I liked very much seeing so much users concerning about and respecting HewPack copyrights, as I believe it would happen with any other company. Thanks sharing your time reading and, if so, answering.

Re: How to get a ROM image - I have a question Message #15 Posted by Mike (Stgt) on 29 Aug 2001, 7:52 a.m., in response to message #14 by Vieira, Luiz C. Yes, it is correct that a 41’s module ROM image can be used to create a copy of the module itself (in a RamBox or Eprom) or add its features to an emulator. Other ways to use? AFAIK: No. Well, I have a ROM analyser to check the contents of an image file. But it runs only on CMS of VM/ESA (an operating system for IBM main frames - big irons, you know <G>). Have a look at http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/nutem/aro.htm Ciao.....Mike

Re: How to get a ROM image Message #16 Posted by Jerry Ballard on 23 Aug 2001, 10:22 p.m., in response to message #1 by Dale Richmond Which HP 41 emulator did you need the Zenrom ROM image? I have the Zenrom ROM image for HP41e emulator and the V41R5 emulator. Please leave your email I will send the one you need.

Re: How to get a ROM image Message #17 Posted by Raymond Hellstern on 24 Aug 2001, 2:02 a.m., in response to message #16 by Jerry Ballard Hello, I could use both images, too. Thanks in advance. Regards, Raymond

Re: How to get a ROM image Message #18 Posted by Holger Veit on 24 Aug 2001, 3:41 a.m., in response to message #16 by Jerry Ballard I'd also be interested in an image (any format). TNX in advance. Holger Veit (holger.veit@ais.fhg.de)

A Request Message #19 Posted by Dave Hicks on 24 Aug 2001, 9:17 a.m., in response to message #16 by Jerry Ballard Everyone, I would appreciate it if you wouldn't offer copies of copyrighted materials here unless you are doing it with the permission of the copyright holder. What you do via email is your own business but when you do it here, you drag me into it. The original request on how to get an image was OK as were responses telling the poster how he could back up his own module. Thanks.

Re: A Request Message #20 Posted by Jerry Ballard on 24 Aug 2001, 8:19 p.m., in response to message #19 by Dave Hicks Dave, Sorry about the offer to share the Zenrom module image. I just assumed since Dale Richmond owned the Zenrom module it would be okay. How can we get permission to share the Zenrom image since it is not available any longer from Zengrange? Would this be possible? Again, sorry Dave.

Re: A Request Message #21 Posted by Dave Hicks on 24 Aug 2001, 8:48 p.m., in response to message #20 by Jerry Ballard While that sounds fine ethically, I believe legally, it's still a problem. (Perhaps because it's hard for you to be sure he really owns the ROM - I'm not sure.) I haven't been able to track down the Zengrange copyright holder. If anyone has a good lead, I'll try to follow it up.

Re: How to get a ROM image Message #22 Posted by Dale Richmond on 24 Aug 2001, 2:24 p.m., in response to message #16 by Jerry Ballard Hello Jerry, I would like to get a Zenrom ROM image for V41r5. I do own a Zenrom module. Thank you, Dale Richmond

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