HP Forum Archive 05

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HP 65 & 67 card legend slot Message #1 Posted by Matt Kernal (US) on 2 May 2001, 7:12 p.m. On the 65 and 67, if you insert a memory card into the card legend slot, it will cover the white labelled key functions 1/X VX Y^X RV X<>Y which are printed directly above the top row keys A B C D E. If HP had put placed these labels on the front face of the A B C D E keys (similar to what they did on the second row of keys), then the functions would've been accessed with the black-shift key and the card legend slot would've blank such that nothing would be obstructed by an insterted card. Granted, I'm certainly no rocket scientist, so obviously I'm missing what they had in mind with the top row labels. Any rocket scientists out there care to clue me in? Thanks, Matt

Re: HP 65 & 67 card legend slot Message #2 Posted by Victor on 2 May 2001, 7:41 p.m., in response to message #1 by Matt Kernal (US) Those functions printed above the A-E keys are accessible on other shifted keys (for example, 1/x can be accessed by the 'h' key followed by the '4' key). Its just that these functions are fairly commonly used, and HP figured that if you haven't yet entered a program it would be convenient for you to have access to these functions without having to press a shift key first. Once you have entered a program, however, you cannot use the A-E keys for this function and must use the equivalent shifted functions (at least this is true on an HP-67). What I wonder is why the shifted functions for the HP-67 and HP-97 are printed BELOW the keys, and for every other calculator the shifted functions are printed ABOVE they keys. This gets confusing if for example I switch between using an HP-67 and using an HP-34C.

Re: HP 65 & 67 card legend slot Message #3 Posted by Matt Kernal (US) on 3 May 2001, 12:27 a.m., in response to message #2 by Victor Ah, I see... how redundant ;-) I'm afraid I can't comprehend why they didn't use the front face of the A-E keys for these functions in the first place? This "real- estate" isn't used for anything at all! Instead, they printed the functions in the legend slot where they KNEW the functions could/would be covered by a magnetic card. This resulted in having to find space to reproduce the SAME keys elsewhere. From the company who gave us our beloved, efficient RPN entry, it doesn't sound too efficient to print function labels twice. If they felt they HAD to print them twice, wouldn't it have made more sense to print the "legend slot" functions on the face of the SAME A-E keys? That way the keys would still be in their same relative location (ie. no need to remember "now where's that second square root key?", because it would've still been found on the same "key" as always -- but now "shifted"). Just my 2 cents, Matt

Re: HP 65 & 67 card legend slot Message #4 Posted by Ernie Malaga on 3 May 2001, 2:14 a.m., in response to message #3 by Matt Kernal (US) Matt: I think you are missing the point Victor made. You either use the pre-printed functions (e.g., square root) or the label (e.g., A), but never both. On the HP-65, the CPU wrote five programs to program memory immediately after turning on the calculator. You can actually switch to W/PRGM and SST through them. You'll see that they're nothing but a LBL, the function specific for each A-E key, and a RTN. To write your own programs, therefore, required you to press [f] [CL PRGM] before doing anything else. On the HP-67, however, HP took a different approach. When you turn on the HP-67, program memory is empty (OK, actually it is full of R/S instructions). When you press an A-E key that has no corresponding LBL in program memory, the HP-67 executes the function printed on the mag card slot. Since [f] [CL PRGM] clears all program memory, pressing that key ENABLES the preprinted functions (instead of disabling them, as it happened on the 65). What it all amounts to is the same, however: To have SOME useful function available in the A-E keys, whether it's a program or a built-in function. For example, the square root function is available as [A] (I think; I'm typing this from memory) or as [f] [9]. When you turn on either calculator, [A] executes the square root... by pressing ONE key only. [f] [9] takes two, so [A] is more convenient. As soon as you use [A] for your programs (whether or not they're recorded on mag cards), [A] executes the program at LBL A. If you need the square root, you MUST press [f] [9]. Also, you MUST press [f] [9] when writing a square root step into a program; if you press [A], the calculator inserts a "go subroutine A" instruction instead. Clear as mud? :) -EM

Good info guys, thanks! Message #5 Posted by Matt Kernal (US) on 3 May 2001, 12:19 p.m., in response to message #4 by Ernie Malaga I knew there was some logic behind the placement of these functions. >Victor: these functions are fairly commonly used... it would be convenient for you to have access to these functions without having to press a shift key first. >Ernie: When you press an A-E key that has no corresponding LBL in program memory, the HP-67 executes the function printed on the mag card slot... This is why these are functions are white (unshifted) like the A-E keys. >Ernie: Also, you MUST press [f] [9] when writing a square root step into a program; if you press [A], the calculator inserts a "go subroutine A" instruction instead. I understand what you're getting at (from a programming standpoint). This shifted function could have just as easily been [h] [A] if the function had been reproduced on the front face of the A key (or maybe not when you throw PGRM mode into the mix. See Tom's thoughts below). >Tom: Having the 'short cut keys' requiring the black shift (or not) depending on the state of the program memory may have been a step too far for the calc to cope with... we are blinded to some of the problems of early electronics. I appreciate your insights, guys. Thanks, Matt

Re: but... Message #6 Posted by Mike on 3 May 2001, 4:21 p.m., in response to message #3 by Matt Kernal (US) You typically don't have a card in the slot unless these keys are reprogrammed. If they are reprogrammed, these hidden labels are not needed. Why do you need to see something that is not needed? Had they put these labels anywhere else, then people would try to use them. So, HP figured: you load a program, you want to see the labels on the keys new definitions; not the labels on buttons that are no longer functional.

Re: HP 65 & 67 card legend slot Message #7 Posted by Tom (UK) on 3 May 2001, 8:09 a.m., in response to message #2 by Victor I think HP did not have the 'short cut keys' available when the HP67 was designed because as theys keys are already different to the rest of the keyboard (they already act differently if the calc is programmed or not). Having the 'short cut keys' requiring the black shift (or not) depending on the state of the program memory may have been a step too far for the calc to cope with. (I think we are blinded to some of the problems of early electronics because now one can put millions of transistors on one chip rather than a few thousand). Victor: I think the functions are below the keys because of the way the designers used the A-F keys. Because the programming card goes above those keys it forced them to put the gold a-f (second prog keys) below. So then all the second functions were below the rest of the keys. However if they had put the a-f functions in black on the slanted area they could have then put the gold/blue functions above the other keys :-). This would have increased the cost very slightly (A-F keys with extra letters). It is very easy to look back with knowledge of what happened later. The HP67 (and even more so the HP65) is a very good calculator and it says something that they still compare well with other calcs that came DECADES later. (I still use my HP67 for every day calculations at my desk.)

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