HP Forum Archive 05

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HP-41CV Emulation cards for HP-48SX Message #1 Posted by J. Lopez on 26 Mar 2001, 5:12 p.m. I've found an old electronics shop selling HP-41CV emulation ROM cards for the HP-48SX calculator. They don't have that many, but I could see at least two boxes. The boxes are marked with a price of $99.95 and there's no mention in them as to their fitness for the HP-48GX calculator. I'm wondering if anybody here has any experience with these emulators and whether the emulation they provide is worthwhile to put in your HP-48. Also, is there any chance of ruining an HP-48GX if one of these cards is installed in them? I'd appreciate any feedback.

Re: HP-41CV Emulation cards for HP-48SX Message #2 Posted by Chan Tran on 27 Mar 2001, 9:22 a.m., in response to message #1 by J. Lopez The card only works with the SX. It won't ruin the GX but won't run on the GX and may cause memory lost. I have one it's pretty nice to have. $99.00 is a high price I think I paid less for mine.

Re: HP-41CV Emulation cards for HP-48SX Message #3 Posted by J. Lopez on 27 Mar 2001, 10:11 p.m., in response to message #2 by Chan Tran Thanks, Chan. I was thinking about buying one but wanted to make sure that it would work in my 48GX. It must be pretty interesting to key-in HP-41 programs into the 48 and put them to work with a minimum of modifications. The price marked in the boxes, though, I'm sure will be lowered by the salesman with a little haggling by a potential buyer. I did not ask him directly for a price. Thanks again for your informative answer.

Re: HP-41CV Emulation cards for HP-48SX Message #4 Posted by Chan Tran on 28 Mar 2001, 12:09 p.m., in response to message #3 by J. Lopez If you have the HP41 with the IR printer module you can transfer 41 Programs to the 48.

Re: HP-41CV Emulation cards for HP-48SX Message #5 Posted by Matt Kernal (US) on 28 Mar 2001, 2:02 p.m., in response to message #3 by J. Lopez From Joe Horn's "emulator.doc" document on Goodies Disk #1, he said the following about the emulator card: "My biggest fear was that it would repeat the HP-71's 41 emulator's mistakes, but it doesn't. You CAN write new 41-code programs on the 48, and you CAN list out the programs 41-style. (The 71 couldn't do either of these.) On the 48, you merely type the 41 program into a string, and press the ->41 menu key, and it gets compiled into a Library Object for the Emulator to run. If you want to, you can also decompile it again by pressing ->TXT. You needn't do so in order to print out a listing, however; the Emulator contains the same printer commands that the 41 IR Module and IL Module contain. But programs needn't be typed in; you can "print" a listing by the 41's IR module, and the Emulator will capture it, automatically decide whether it's a program, data, or status info, and compile it accordingly. Or you can use the dumb INPRT program (on the Emulator card) to capture the listing and leave it as a string on the stack so that you can edit it." In essence, when writing 41 programs on the 48SX, the emulator card doesn't emulate the 41's PGRM mode prompts. As Joe said, you must enter the program as string (on the 48's stack) and then compile it using the ->41 menu key. Matt

Re: HP-41CV Emulation cards for HP-48SX Message #6 Posted by CJ on 31 Mar 2001, 7:12 a.m., in response to message #5 by Matt Kernal (US) <<From Joe Horn's "emulator.doc" document on Goodies Disk #1, he said the following about the emulator card: "My biggest fear was that it would repeat the HP-71's 41 emulator's mistakes, but it doesn't. You CAN write new 41-code programs on the 48, and you CAN list out the programs 41-style. (The 71 couldn't do either of these.) On the 48, you merely type the 41 program into a string, and press the ->41 menu key, and it gets compiled into a Library Object for the Emulator to run. If you want to, you can also decompile it again by pressing ->TXT. You needn't do so in order to print out a listing, however; the Emulator contains the same printer commands that the 41 IR Module and IL Module contain.>> With all due respect to Joe Horn. You CAN write new 41 code on the 71. Here is a quote from my 82490A manual(page 38). <quote> You can write HP-41 programs directly on the HP-71 using the HP-71 Text Editor Program (editor, for short) included in the HP-41 Translator Pac. Using the editor, you can create new programs, much as you would on the HP-41, or you can copy programs directly from HP-41 program listings, matching the listings character-for-character, line-for-line. </quote> Once you have the program(text file) entered, you use the other supplied program "trans41" to convert the program for running in the emulator, somewhat like the 48's ->41 menu key. you CAN list the text file or the converted file from within the emulator with this type of command. " LIST COUNT" BASICX This is to list a small counting program I wrote on the 71. The converted file is not that much different from the original text file. So if you wanted to, you could enter the 41 code in that format and skip the translation procedure all together. Also with the forth system you can add new functions to the 41 emulator. On page 47 in the manual it explains how to do this. And the new function behaves just like any other function. So skys the limit from my view. The ROM truly is an amazing piece of work in my opinion. Chris

Re: HP-41CV Emulation cards for HP-48SX Message #7 Posted by Matt Kernal (US) on 1 Apr 2001, 11:53 p.m., in response to message #6 by CJ CJ> With all due respect to Joe Horn. You CAN write new 41 code on the 71. I believe you. What you say sure sounds accurate. Too bad he didn't provide more details about the 41/71 Translator ROM (he probably has elsewhere), because I think he was really into the 71 back then; he even has some 71 stuff on his website now. But let me say it again, I do believe you. CJ> The ROM truly is an amazing piece of work in my opinion. I don't have the 71 Forth ROM (although I do have the 41CV emulator card for the 48SX), but I very sure Dr. Wickes wouldn't have let any junk out the door! :^) Matt

Re: HP-41CV Emulation cards for HP-48SX Message #8 Posted by CJ on 2 Apr 2001, 7:40 a.m., in response to message #7 by Matt Kernal (US) CJ> With all due respect to Joe Horn. You CAN write new 41 code on the 71. <I believe you. What you say sure sounds accurate. Too bad he didn't provide more details about the 41/71 Translator ROM (he probably has elsewhere), because I think he was really into the 71 back then; he even has some 71 stuff on his website now.> I have seen most of his website. That's why I said with all due respect :^) It just suprised me that he said that, when it's right in the manual how to enter programs. I am off topic here but I just wanted to clarify that it is possible. I have been mulling over getting a 48 for everyday use since my other machines aren't allowed out of the house. I didn't know it could run 41 code with the card. Now I'm going to be looking at the 48 again. :^) Chris

Re: HP-41CV Emulation cards for HP-48SX Message #9 Posted by Mike on 29 Mar 2001, 3:55 p.m., in response to message #3 by J. Lopez The card *IS* usefull if you have a lot of HP-41 programs you like to take with you in your "new" HP-48SX (grin). If you did synthetic programming on the your HP-41 or used instructions from plug-in modules you will have to do some fiddling. Otherwise the migration is as easy as printing to the IR-Printer. BTW, are there libraries arround for that emulator card that contain the plug-in instructions? (I mentioned this emulator card on my homepage, have a look at http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/NutEm) Ciao.....Mike

Re: HP-41CV Emulation cards for HP-48SX Message #10 Posted by wlodek Mier-Jedrzejowicz on 4 Apr 2001, 3:46 p.m., in response to message #9 by Mike Oh, dear, I've come across another interesting (to me!) thread late. Mike asked: >BTW, are there libraries arround for that emulator card that contain the plug-in instructions? I'd love to know that too. When the card was created, the programmers were writing the code and I was writing the manual in parallel. If they had a new idea they would put it in the code and I'd add it to the manual, but if I had a good idea I'd put it in the manual and they'd put it in the code :-) Since the requirement was for a contractor (Zengrange!) to write an HP-41CV emulator, there was no time or money to create plug-in instructions, except for some printer ones. So a set of emulator instructions was added to let people write their own copies of plug-in functions and other extensions. I have never seen much use made of these. If any collections exist, I'd love to learn of them! Some people might be interested to knmow why it was an HP-41CV Emulator, not an HP-41CX Emulator! (I wanted a 41CX Emulator too!) I believe that HP's main interest was to provide an HP-41 Emulator for Surveyors and other people with similar needs, who would have been very unhappy to suddenly lose the use of their HP-41 programs. Time Functions, Extended Functions, and so on, were considered less important, and not worth the extra expense. Wlodek Mier-Jedrzejowicz

Re: HP-41CV Emulation cards for HP-48SX Message #11 Posted by Mike (Stgt) on 8 Apr 2001, 5:38 p.m., in response to message #10 by wlodek Mier-Jedrzejowicz Hi Wlodek, thank you for your reply. I wonder that not even you had the time to collect the extensions of Time Functions, Extended Functions, and perhaps other modules too. I am sure that some users of the emulator card did program those extensions, just not to loose their best HP-41 routines. Well, I tried to code some extensions for synthetic programming. When I find them again one day I will show them on my homepage. Ciao.....Mike

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