NumWorks open source calculator
08-28-2017, 10:33 PM (This post was last modified: 08-28-2017 10:49 PM by BobVA.)
Post: #1
 BobVA Member Posts: 259 Joined: Dec 2013
NumWorks open source calculator
Interesting article about a new graphing calculator with open source software:

Update: Hardware specs here

(Cortex M4 / 1MB Flash / 256K SRAM)
08-29-2017, 02:37 AM
Post: #2
 Dan Member Posts: 162 Joined: Jan 2017
RE: NumWorks open source calculator
Looks good, and making the source code open is a great idea.
08-29-2017, 07:34 AM (This post was last modified: 08-29-2017 10:46 AM by pier4r.)
Post: #3
 pier4r Senior Member Posts: 2,016 Joined: Nov 2014
RE: NumWorks open source calculator
Interesting!

Oh running python on the thing can (CAN!) be powerful. Would be interesting to have another concurrent to hp, ti and casio although "new".

Oh, it has also compiled code (see the git repo). The thingy has potential.

https://www.numworks.com/resources/engin.../embedded/

Imagine the 34s code running on this thing. I'll buy immediately. Having a stable and powerfuk hardware platform helps a lot. 34s, free42, newRPL running on the thingy. Would be awesome.

https://www.numworks.com/resources/

Wikis are great, Contribute :)
08-29-2017, 07:42 AM
Post: #4
 Paul Dale Senior Member Posts: 1,546 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: NumWorks open source calculator
ii = undef ????

Hmmm....

Unless I've misunderstood the meaning of i.
08-29-2017, 12:05 PM (This post was last modified: 08-29-2017 12:07 PM by AlexFekken.)
Post: #5
 AlexFekken Member Posts: 151 Joined: May 2016
RE: NumWorks open source calculator
No, it looks like the usual i.

It seems to be able to handle real powers of complex numbers (such as i^pi, (i+1)^pi, i^sqrt(2), and (i+1)^sqrt(2)), but ln(i) results in an "undef" as well. Makes me wonder how it does the exponentiation...
08-29-2017, 02:28 PM
Post: #6
 Claudio L. Senior Member Posts: 1,666 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: NumWorks open source calculator
Interesting device.
The OS is open source, you can modify for your own non-commercial purposes, but you may not share any derivatives or adapted material (why??). This effectively turns the open source nature of the software into a locked-down system where you can only feed modifications back to them, and they will decide whether to incorporate them or not, but you can't fork it or "be creative" outside of what the original creator wants, and certainly not publish your changes. I understand this might be needed for their exam certification. Still doesn't stop a student from hacking into the firmware to add a few cheats. It would be legal as long as he/she doesn't share them (!?).
Of course you can replace the firmware completely and publish it, but that begs the question:
If a complete firmware replacement is required, why buy their hardware vs. the HP Prime? Price is roughly the same, but with the Prime we get more flash, more ram, touchscreen, most likely a better quality keyboard, and a CPU with an actual MMU and graphics accelerator, though an older generation.

Overall a nice community effort, if it had a little more computing power it could compete very well, unfortunately I think they are priced too close to the high end TI and HP calculators, which have a very complete and mature math environment. If the price is cut by half I'd be buying one and porting newRPL to it. At this price I'd rather port it to the Prime hardware first.
08-29-2017, 03:54 PM (This post was last modified: 08-29-2017 07:07 PM by pier4r.)
Post: #7
 pier4r Senior Member Posts: 2,016 Joined: Nov 2014
RE: NumWorks open source calculator
(08-29-2017 02:28 PM)Claudio L. Wrote:  If a complete firmware replacement is required, why buy their hardware vs. the HP Prime? Price is roughly the same, but with the Prime we get more flash, more ram, touchscreen, most likely a better quality keyboard, and a CPU with an actual MMU and graphics accelerator, though an older generation.

I do not know for the Prime but the TI for example does not encourage third party firmware. So the fact that one can install a third party firmware but it is not wanted (so, possible hostility) is a different case from the case where it is encouraged.
(If I understood it right).

PS: I should install ndless on the Ti nspire because the default nspire is usable (for programming) only if one has the nspire student software that does not come with second hand purchases (and costs like the calculator).

Wikis are great, Contribute :)
08-29-2017, 03:57 PM (This post was last modified: 08-29-2017 04:02 PM by mfleming.)
Post: #8
 mfleming Senior Member Posts: 482 Joined: Jul 2015
RE: NumWorks open source calculator
[Edit: Oops! sorry for posting the same article link...]

The last page of the schematics indicate connectors for QUADSPI, USART, SPI and microSD. No mention is made of any of these connectors on the web site, so I'm sure they're not populated . . . but could be?

The processor supports USB OTG, but the USB ID pin is left floating (pity!) so it can only be used in device mode. I wonder if the pin is brought out to an appropriate TP?

The ease of assembly and disassembly is highlighted, as is the fact that the parts can be 3D printed yourself (no sign yet of the design files). The keys are molded on a sprue carrier prior to silk-screening. I wonder if custom keys can be ordered or done yourself with the raw keys in their carrier?

See Tim's many posts about the Prime for reasons that the software is tightly controlled. But I wonder if the hardware platform might be available separately?

Methinks I'd like to see inside...
~Mark

Who decides?
08-29-2017, 06:46 PM
Post: #9
 Chasfield Member Posts: 119 Joined: Sep 2015
RE: NumWorks open source calculator
From a UK perspective that price isn't bad. I could order off Amazon for 80 GBP and have it by Friday. In contrast, colour graphic offerings from HP, Texas and Casio cost 50 percent more over here.
08-29-2017, 06:57 PM
Post: #10
 Claudio L. Senior Member Posts: 1,666 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: NumWorks open source calculator
(08-29-2017 03:57 PM)mfleming Wrote:  The last page of the schematics indicate connectors for QUADSPI, USART, SPI and microSD. No mention is made of any of these connectors on the web site, so I'm sure they're not populated . . . but could be?

They seem to be very proud of how thin the calculator is. I doubt you have enough thickness to populate those connectors without a big "lump" in the back of your calc.
08-29-2017, 07:42 PM
Post: #11
 mfleming Senior Member Posts: 482 Joined: Jul 2015
RE: NumWorks open source calculator
(08-29-2017 06:57 PM)Claudio L. Wrote:
(08-29-2017 03:57 PM)mfleming Wrote:  The last page of the schematics indicate connectors for QUADSPI, USART, SPI and microSD. No mention is made of any of these connectors on the web site, so I'm sure they're not populated . . . but could be?

They seem to be very proud of how thin the calculator is. I doubt you have enough thickness to populate those connectors without a big "lump" in the back of your calc.

True. And from my so-far failed attempt to install the SDK on Windows 10 or get the build to work on Ubuntu, I may tone down my excitement just a bit until other more skilled members have explored the software base a bit further Dreams of a new WP 34S platform will have to wait...

~Mark
08-29-2017, 09:42 PM (This post was last modified: 08-29-2017 10:22 PM by compsystems.)
Post: #12
 compsystems Senior Member Posts: 1,193 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: NumWorks open source calculator

In order to compete with hp-prime/ti-nspire NumWorks must have CAS, if not, I want to see XCAS in its complete version and you?,

In addition to competing with ti-nspire & TI-Innovator NumWorks must have interface with microcontrollers ie arduino and others,
TI-Innovator info
https://tiplanet.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18010

TI-planet NumWorks info
https://tiplanet.org/forum/viewtopic.php...17#p220717

LibreCalc, A project that did not arise = (
http://www.librecalc.com/en/blog/second-...e-preview/

LO SUFICIENTEMENTE BUENO ES ENEMIGO DE LA EXCELENCIA.
08-29-2017, 10:42 PM
Post: #13
 Claudio L. Senior Member Posts: 1,666 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: NumWorks open source calculator
(08-29-2017 06:57 PM)Claudio L. Wrote:
(08-29-2017 03:57 PM)mfleming Wrote:  The last page of the schematics indicate connectors for QUADSPI, USART, SPI and microSD. No mention is made of any of these connectors on the web site, so I'm sure they're not populated . . . but could be?

They seem to be very proud of how thin the calculator is. I doubt you have enough thickness to populate those connectors without a big "lump" in the back of your calc.

They posted some hi-resolution pictures of the PCB on tiplanet.

microSD connector is not there for sure. UART has testing pads, you could solder some wires if you are careful. I can't see where the SPI or the debugger pads are.
08-30-2017, 05:35 AM (This post was last modified: 08-30-2017 05:36 AM by ijabbott.)
Post: #14
 ijabbott Senior Member Posts: 768 Joined: Jul 2015
RE: NumWorks open source calculator
A few random thoughts:
1. There seems to be some question about whether or not it can only run digitally signed firmware due to "exam mode" requirements (https://www.reddit.com/r/numworks/commen...tty_easily). This may put the kibosh on projects such as porting Free42, WP-34s, WP-43s, NEWRPL, etc.
2. It only has 256 KiB of RAM which might not be enough to run a CAS (just a guess).
3. The current implementation of the calculator uses the FPU's binary floating point support, but decimal floating point seems preferable for a calculator.
08-30-2017, 07:23 AM
Post: #15
 parisse Senior Member Posts: 1,050 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: NumWorks open source calculator
(08-30-2017 05:35 AM)ijabbott Wrote:  It only has 256 KiB of RAM which might not be enough to run a CAS (just a guess).
Some CAS kernels work with 256K of RAM. Giac can run with 256K, but the flash capacity (1M) is too small.
08-30-2017, 01:15 PM
Post: #16
 Anderson Costa Member Posts: 58 Joined: Apr 2014
RE: NumWorks open source calculator
I have found the online simulator for this calculator:
https://www.numworks.com/fr/simulateur/
This open source calculator is a great project. I am wondering about porting a CAS like Xcas or Octave to this calculator.
08-30-2017, 02:51 PM
Post: #17
 Claudio L. Senior Member Posts: 1,666 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: NumWorks open source calculator
(08-30-2017 05:35 AM)ijabbott Wrote:  There seems to be some question about whether or not it can only run digitally signed firmware due to "exam mode" requirements (https://www.reddit.com/r/numworks/commen...tty_easily). This may put the kibosh on projects such as porting Free42, WP-34s, WP-43s, NEWRPL, etc.

I may be wrong, but as far as I can see the STM32 doesn't have secure boot, firmware encryption, or anything like that. There's a cryptographic accelerator module that can be used by software to speed up encryption, but the encryption still has to be done by the firmware and there's nothing protecting that. Disabling signature check in the firmware should be as easy as bypassing erase on exam mode.
Kinetis by NXP have secure boot, but STM32F4 doesn't as far as I know.
08-30-2017, 04:20 PM
Post: #18
 parisse Senior Member Posts: 1,050 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: NumWorks open source calculator
(08-30-2017 01:15 PM)Anderson Costa Wrote:  I have found the online simulator for this calculator:
https://www.numworks.com/fr/simulateur/
This open source calculator is a great project. I am wondering about porting a CAS like Xcas or Octave to this calculator.
Octave is not a CAS, it is a numeric oriented software. As I said earlier, Xcas (well Giac in fact) can not be ported because the flash is too small, 8M is the minimum size (the TI nspire port of Giac is a little less than 6M).
08-30-2017, 05:09 PM
Post: #19
 compsystems Senior Member Posts: 1,193 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: NumWorks open source calculator
is possible to install or incorporate sympy on NumWorks? http://www.sympy.org/en/index.html

LO SUFICIENTEMENTE BUENO ES ENEMIGO DE LA EXCELENCIA.
08-30-2017, 08:59 PM
Post: #20
 EugeneNine Member Posts: 251 Joined: Feb 2017
RE: NumWorks open source calculator
Ok, I'm confused, what I CAS. I always thought it was just the backwards (non RPN) entry method.
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