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Different note app / way to store often used formulas / how to start programming
02-23-2014, 05:32 PM
Post: #21
RE: Different note app / way to store often used formulas / how to start programming
(02-23-2014 05:07 PM)Angus Wrote:  Why should we stick to hp? Why not trying something new?

Sad answer: There is nothing new on the pocket calculator market because nowadays you can do most of the stuff with your smartphone.
Probably the only reason why pocket calculators still exist (and will still exist in 10 years) is that smartphones/ computers are not allowed in exams. For engineering you can do everything on a computer (or even have to do for documentation reasons).
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02-23-2014, 06:30 PM (This post was last modified: 02-23-2014 06:33 PM by Angus.)
Post: #22
RE: Different note app / way to store often used formulas / how to start programming
To make that clear: I did not mean to be offensive or rude just wanted to express my feelings.
Struggling with marketing and sales people is part of my everyday business - so if someone like Tim is passionate about his work he shares my deepest respect.

Concerning using pc Software or smartphones instead of a real calculator I need to disagree with you. A calculator still has its place on an engineers bench. Any touchscreen is a haptic disaster and a potent calculator is more than enough in many cases.

Well I'll wait for what might happen and feel free to ask questions if they come up.
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02-23-2014, 09:24 PM (This post was last modified: 02-23-2014 09:25 PM by Joe Horn.)
Post: #23
RE: Different note app / way to store often used formulas / how to start programming
Two points that need correction:

(02-23-2014 05:07 PM)Angus Wrote:  ... NO rpn ...

You'll be happy to know that Prime does indeed offer RPN Entry. It's not the default entry mode, but that's not new; RPN hasn't been the default entry mode on HP's top models for 15 years now. But they have all offered RPN.

Quote:I have to spent hours in getting used with a new conception and in addition I am left alone by hp? No statements or whatsoever?

Tim Wessman, Cyrille de Brebisson, and Bernard Parisse (of the HP Prime team) have posted hundreds of replies to queries here, on comp.sys.hp48, on HP's own Calculator Discussion Board, and numerous other places. If you have a question, a suggestion, or a bug to report, post it here and there will be replies, as there have been for the past 6 months.

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02-24-2014, 12:01 PM (This post was last modified: 02-24-2014 12:02 PM by Angus.)
Post: #24
RE: Different note app / way to store often used formulas / how to start programming
Well, no consistant rpn throughout the whole calculator... to concretize that.

These guys do indeed respond quite often, but they are not hp.... They do not decide what has to be done or what should be done. They are not the managment whose decisions are what makes the final product.
So I really hope they were not offended by my initial post. Really.

But - on topic about often used formulae: There is something bothering me.

- is the solving app the official replacement for the mes in the 48/49/50 calculators? In the 49g+ I was missing that alot until I found out how easily it can be invoked and attached to the app key. This mes helped me countless times. And maybe it is still in the calculator and I just don't know about it.

- the mes was able to deal with diferent lists of equation. Worst workflow was to copy and rename a stored list into EQ.
When I need different sets of Data for the apps the only advice I found so far was to copy the whole app store it with diffenrent Variables... In my eyes that is -at best- a workaround leading to a confusing and looong app directory. I think everyone agrees that an application's i.e. a program's purpose is to to be run with different data. That is what a program is for.
Maybe a solution to that would be to let an app browse in specific yet bound varaible sets to choose from? To me that seems to be a modification without too many change in the Rest of the Variable conception. Coming to the last point:

- In all apps I see the possibility of unwanted calculations because of unassigned Variables still initialized to zero. Especially in the school sector that seems to be -really- error prone. Checking all variables prior to a calculation takes time and you need to re-enter them, so what do you recommend how one should deal with the user Variables.
Since the Variable concept is against my intuitive nature, but is praised as an imrovement I would love to get insights into hp's thinking.

greetings
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02-24-2014, 01:49 PM
Post: #25
RE: Different note app / way to store often used formulas / how to start programming
(02-23-2014 06:30 PM)Angus Wrote:  Concerning using pc Software or smartphones instead of a real calculator I need to disagree with you. A calculator still has its place on an engineers bench. Any touchscreen is a haptic disaster and a potent calculator is more than enough in many cases.

I did not mean that a smartphone or computer is better suited for the purpose. I prefer a real calculator keyboard as well. (which is why I think the Casio Classpad 2 is a stupid device: It combines a touchscreen interface with the limited processing power of a calculator. Hardware keys are only provided for the bare minimum of functions. Worst of both worlds).

But my point is: Virtually everyone has a smartphone already and 24/7 available in his/her pocket. And a computer. Wolfram Alpha is free to use, and there are other CAS which are free to use. Hell, you even get a free Mathematica license if you buy a Rasperry Pi for 30$!
Hence many people don't see a reason in investing money in a device which is more expensive, less capable and less flexible, and where the innovation cycle is in the range of 10-20 years, only because it has a specialized user interface. This shrinks the market down to a size where its difficult to make any money.

10-20 years ago one would buy a calculator to learn programming. Today you go to codecademy.com
10-20 years ago one would buy a calculator to get access to a cheap CAS/solver. Today you go to wolframalpha.com
10-20 years ago one would buy a calculator to make a quick plot. Today you download gnuplot, or any other plotting tool (or go to wolframalpha.com)
10-20 years ago one would buy a calculator to use in an exam. Today... oh wait, that's still the same ;-)


(Btw: You posted in another thread about RealCalc. Thats also my favourite calculator app. It's actually the first RPN calculator I used)
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02-24-2014, 02:24 PM
Post: #26
RE: Different note app / way to store often used formulas / how to start programming
Stefan, you sure have a clear head for a young man! You give me hope for the future... :-)

OTOH given that everybody wants nothing but smartphone apps then if HP wants to stay in the calculator business they ought to keep feeding us old timers the good fodder we're used to, and maybe some younger guys with good heads on their shoulders like you will keep them in business!
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02-24-2014, 02:31 PM
Post: #27
RE: Different note app / way to store often used formulas / how to start programming
Who guarantees a 100% correct functionality of a smartphone app - I mean if I do serious calculations leading to a faulty result...
I always had the hope that you pay for an as bug-free-as-possible device when going for a calculator. If you get that point.

Nevertheless I now got the feeling everybody understands what the other one meant.

And finally a push to my mes confusion :-)
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02-25-2014, 05:29 AM (This post was last modified: 02-25-2014 05:37 AM by Kevin Ouellet.)
Post: #28
RE: Different note app / way to store often used formulas / how to start programming
(02-21-2014 07:55 PM)Stefan Wrote:  
(02-21-2014 07:42 AM)hape Wrote:  Good thing, that surprises me in a way, is that the community is still quite forgiving. There are many suggestions and bug reports given to HP without any flaming.
I think the community is so forgiving because the community consists mostly of engineers which know (or do we only think that? :-P) that it's usually not the engineers who f*ck up a product, but the decision makers and marketing.

I think the Prime would make an excellent topic for a Dilbert comic ^^.

I think another reason why the community is forgiving is that many calculator enthusiasts who purchased the HP Prime or are planning to get one are disgruntled TI-Nspire users who are sick to death of Texas Instruments' behavior towards TI calculator hackers and programmers, and since the HP PPL language is so fast and powerful compared to TI-Nspire BASIC and Lua, they would rather have the buggy Prime than a totally locked-down or crippled machine in terms of programmability.


As for smartphones, as long as 2 or 3 students per class continue to act like idiots with them (such as by leaving their ringtone on during class or even engaging into a convo or SMS session while the teacher is explaining... and yes, I saw the latter happen at least twice a year in average, even if I live a few thousands of miles from Detroit) and as long as there aren't 3G/4G/Wi-fi-proof classrooms (that blocks any signal that can allow a student to access a cheating website), then I doubt that they'll ever replace calcs. They're still banned in some classes for those reasons.

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