Some assorted HP67/97 questions
06-04-2016, 11:14 AM (This post was last modified: 06-04-2016 11:27 AM by Dieter.)
Post: #1
 Dieter Senior Member Posts: 2,397 Joined: Dec 2013
Some assorted HP67/97 questions
I am currently translating an HP41 a program for the 67/97. All I got is a simulator that seems to have several bugs, so I would like to ask users of "the real thing" a few questions. ;-)

1. Display formatting: when the display underflows in FIX mode, does it switch to SCI 9 or does it keep the number of digits set by DSP? In other words: if FIX DSP 2 is set, will 1/300 be displayed as 3,33 -03 or 3,333333333 -03?
2. When the program reaches a RTN statement and there is no pending subroutine call, does the program stop at the current line number so that R/S would continue there (like e.g. the 41) or does it return to step 000 (like e.g. the 34C)?
3. On the 34C and 41 I always tried to avoid the slow yx function, e.g. by calculating cubes via [ENTER] [x²] [x]. I assume this is also a good idea for the 67/97. But what about x8 ? Is [x²] [x²] [x²] still faster than [8] [yx]? I suppose it is, but maybe someone can check this. I also remember a table with timings of several functions in some HP-related magazine, but I cannot seem to find it. #-)
4. Can someome recommend a good 67/97 emulator for Windows that runs the original microcode? Nonpareil sounds perfect but it seems to be unavailable.

Thank you very much for your help.

Dieter
06-04-2016, 05:51 PM
Post: #2
 Helix Member Posts: 225 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Some assorted HP67/97 questions
(06-04-2016 11:14 AM)Dieter Wrote:  Can someome recommend a good 67/97 emulator for Windows that runs the original microcode? Nonpareil sounds perfect but it seems to be unavailable.

I've never used, or even seen, a real HP-67, but I've been discovering its features for a few days. I'm using this HTML emulator, which is said to behave like the real thing:
http://www.sydneysmith.com/wordpress/hp67u/
Maybe more experienced users will confirm this.

Jean-Charles
06-04-2016, 07:25 PM (This post was last modified: 06-04-2016 07:35 PM by Guenter Schink.)
Post: #3
 Guenter Schink Senior Member Posts: 414 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Some assorted HP67/97 questions
(06-04-2016 11:14 AM)Dieter Wrote:  I am currently translating an HP41 a program for the 67/97. All I got is a simulator that seems to have several bugs, so I would like to ask users of "the real thing" a few questions. ;-)

1. Display formatting: when the display underflows in FIX mode, does it switch to SCI 9 or does it keep the number of digits set by DSP? In other words: if FIX DSP 2 is set, will 1/300 be displayed as 3,33 -03 or 3,333333333 -03?
2. When the program reaches a RTN statement and there is no pending subroutine call, does the program stop at the current line number so that R/S would continue there (like e.g. the 41) or does it return to step 000 (like e.g. the 34C)?
3. On the 34C and 41 I always tried to avoid the slow yx function, e.g. by calculating cubes via [ENTER] [x²] [x]. I assume this is also a good idea for the 67/97. But what about x8 ? Is [x²] [x²] [x²] still faster than [8] [yx]? I suppose it is, but maybe someone can check this. I also remember a table with timings of several functions in some HP-related magazine, but I cannot seem to find it. #-)
4. Can someome recommend a good 67/97 emulator for Windows that runs the original microcode? Nonpareil sounds perfect but it seems to be unavailable.

Thank you very much for your help.

Dieter

O.k. from the real 67:

1. DSP 2: 1/3=0.33 /10=0.03 /10=3.333333333-03

2. RTN: the Calc will stop at the following line. R/S will simply continue from there.

3. this short program with [x8] runs about 15 sec
Code:
LBL A 01 00 STO (i) LBL 0 π   8 y^x DSZ(i) GTO 0

Using [x2] runs in about 7 to 8 seconds
Code:
LBL A 01 00 STO (i) LBL 0 π     x^2 x^2 x^2 DSZ(i) GTO 0

Günter

Edit: formatting
06-04-2016, 10:58 PM
Post: #4
 Dieter Senior Member Posts: 2,397 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Some assorted HP67/97 questions
(06-04-2016 07:25 PM)Guenter Schink Wrote:  1. DSP 2: 1/3=0.33 /10=0.03 /10=3.333333333-03

So the manual is right and the simulator is ...different. #-)

(06-04-2016 07:25 PM)Guenter Schink Wrote:  2. RTN: the Calc will stop at the following line. R/S will simply continue from there.

So it's the same as on an HP41. I wonder why some calculators do it this way while others return to the program top at step 000.

(06-04-2016 07:25 PM)Guenter Schink Wrote:  3. this short program with [x8] runs about 15 sec
(...) Using [x2] runs in about 7 to 8 seconds

I expected as much. The 41 also is roughly twice as fast with x² instead of yx.

BTW, I assume the STO(i) and DSZ(i) are supposed to be STO I (35 33) and DSZ I (31 33) ?-)

Thank you very much, Günter.

Dieter
06-04-2016, 11:17 PM
Post: #5
 Dieter Senior Member Posts: 2,397 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Some assorted HP67/97 questions
(06-04-2016 05:51 PM)Helix Wrote:  I've never used, or even seen, a real HP-67,

The last time I saw (and shortly used) one now is more than 30 years ago. ;-)

(06-04-2016 05:51 PM)Helix Wrote:  I'm using this HTML emulator, which is said to behave like the real thing:

Thank you very much, but I think I would have to update to an HTML5-enabled browser first. Actually I am looking more for something that can be used offline. But the mentioned site has quite some other interesting stuff.

Dieter
06-05-2016, 08:08 PM
Post: #6
 Guenter Schink Senior Member Posts: 414 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Some assorted HP67/97 questions
(06-04-2016 10:58 PM)Dieter Wrote:  BTW, I assume the STO(i) and DSZ(i) are supposed to be STO I (35 33) and DSZ I (31 33) ?-)

Thank you very much, Günter.

Dieter

Don't know why I chose indirect addressing Here it doesn't make a difference. BTW the loop itself, without the calculations, runs about 4 seconds. Thus the gain with triple x2 is even much more than twice.

A year ago I would have recommended go67c for Android. But the author Olivier de Smet (Oulan in this forum) obviously doesn't care any longer for his products. Error reports aren't simply taken care of. No replies at all. Needless to say that I'm really pissed.

Günter
06-05-2016, 10:11 PM
Post: #7
 Helix Member Posts: 225 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Some assorted HP67/97 questions
(06-04-2016 11:17 PM)Dieter Wrote:  Thank you very much, but I think I would have to update to an HTML5-enabled browser first. Actually I am looking more for something that can be used offline. But the mentioned site has quite some other interesting stuff.

I don't know what HTML5 is. I've just clicked on the "use it" link in Internet Explorer 11, and it works. It works also with Firefox. If you chose "install it", I think the emulator runs off-line. The running times are the same as those reported by Günter!

I've seen on this forum that Teenix is working on an HP67 emulator:
http://www.teenix.org/

Jean-Charles
06-06-2016, 03:35 PM
Post: #8
 PANAMATIK Senior Member Posts: 1,023 Joined: Oct 2014
RE: Some assorted HP67/97 questions
(06-04-2016 11:14 AM)Dieter Wrote:  [*]Can someome recommend a good 67/97 emulator for Windows that runs the original microcode? Nonpareil sounds perfect but it seems to be unavailable.

I didn't know that there is no offline HP-67/97 simulator for Windows. At least for HP-67 I can make a photorealistic microcode emulator for download until end of this week, if you like. However without loading and saving magnetic cards on harddisk.

Bernhard

That's one small step for a man - one giant leap for mankind.
06-06-2016, 04:16 PM
Post: #9
 Massimo Gnerucci Senior Member Posts: 2,330 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Some assorted HP67/97 questions
There still is Olivier's Emulator.

Greetings,
Massimo

-+×÷ ↔ left is right and right is wrong
06-06-2016, 04:44 PM
Post: #10
 Gene Moderator Posts: 1,187 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Some assorted HP67/97 questions
What I'm hoping for is a good HP 65 iOS emulator. :-)
06-06-2016, 08:28 PM
Post: #11
 Dieter Senior Member Posts: 2,397 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Some assorted HP67/97 questions
(06-06-2016 03:35 PM)PANAMATIK Wrote:  I didn't know that there is no offline HP-67/97 simulator for Windows.

There is the one or other simulator, but some use "enhancements" so that they do not mirror the real thing.

(06-06-2016 03:35 PM)PANAMATIK Wrote:  At least for HP-67 I can make a photorealistic microcode emulator for download until end of this week, if you like. However without loading and saving magnetic cards on harddisk.

If there is any other way of saving the program or a calculator state file, I think most here would consider this a useful project. But if you do it, please don't do it for me but for the whole HP community out there. ;-)

Dieter
06-06-2016, 08:38 PM
Post: #12
 Dieter Senior Member Posts: 2,397 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Some assorted HP67/97 questions
(06-06-2016 04:16 PM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote:  There still is Olivier's Emulator.

Thank you, I have seen these emulators some time ago an I think I even downloaded version 1.7.3., but I haven't installed it yet. On the one hand the author says that the ROM code was taken from an old Nonpareil release, on the other hand there are lots of additions that go far beyond the original machine. So it doesn't seem to be an 1:1 representation of the original calculator. Because of such details I'm asking for personal recommendations. ;-)

Dieter
06-06-2016, 08:39 PM (This post was last modified: 06-06-2016 08:42 PM by Massimo Gnerucci.)
Post: #13
 Massimo Gnerucci Senior Member Posts: 2,330 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Some assorted HP67/97 questions
(06-06-2016 08:28 PM)Dieter Wrote:  There is the one or other simulator, but some use "enhancements" so that they do not mirror the real thing.

Olivier's one is based on nonpareil (as so many other emulators...).

I see you already knew that

Greetings,
Massimo

-+×÷ ↔ left is right and right is wrong
06-06-2016, 08:44 PM
Post: #14
 Dieter Senior Member Posts: 2,397 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Some assorted HP67/97 questions
(06-06-2016 08:39 PM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote:  Olivier's one is based on nonpareil (as so many other emulators...).

You were one minute faster. ;-)
It doesn't seem to be that unambiguous, cf. my previous post.

Dieter
06-06-2016, 09:40 PM
Post: #15
 PANAMATIK Senior Member Posts: 1,023 Joined: Oct 2014
RE: Some assorted HP67/97 questions
(06-06-2016 08:28 PM)Dieter Wrote:  If there is any other way of saving the program or a calculator state file, I think most here would consider this a useful project. But if you do it, please don't do it for me but for the whole HP community out there. ;-)

I think I have a quite original emulation without extras. I thought over, that there would be no problem to include programs save to and load from file as ASCII readable and editable. Of course it will be free to download for all of you.

Need a few days, though.

Bernhard

That's one small step for a man - one giant leap for mankind.
06-07-2016, 12:56 AM
Post: #16
 teenix Senior Member Posts: 1,308 Joined: May 2016
RE: Some assorted HP67/97 questions
Hi all,

I have my Windows based HP67 emulator running now. Runs original microcode, reads/writes cards to hard disk, experiment with code etc.

I just got the hardware calculator running in 67 mode yesterday and all seems fine. In next few days I will complete the code to access the memory cards which will be the same hardware as the HP65 although fewer programs can be stored per card due to the slightly larger file sizes for the 67.

I am working in remote Australia for a few weeks and internet access is via satellite is very limited.

If anyone has some ideas they would like added let me know and I will see what I can do.

I will upload the emulator to teenix.org when I get home.

cheers

Tony
06-07-2016, 05:21 AM
Post: #17
 bshoring Member Posts: 266 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Some assorted HP67/97 questions
(06-06-2016 04:44 PM)Gene Wrote:  What I'm hoping for is a good HP 65 iOS emulator. :-)

There is a very good one from Cuvée Software, for iPad only.
RPN-65.

Regards,
Bob
06-07-2016, 12:33 PM
Post: #18
 Gene Moderator Posts: 1,187 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Some assorted HP67/97 questions
Aha. iPad only. Pity... cmon Cuvée ... iPhone too. :-)

By the way, I purchased the RPN-67 and 32E/38C emulators for iPhone yesterday.
06-07-2016, 05:50 PM (This post was last modified: 06-10-2016 07:26 PM by PANAMATIK.)
Post: #19
 PANAMATIK Senior Member Posts: 1,023 Joined: Oct 2014
RE: Some assorted HP67/97 questions
(06-06-2016 09:40 PM)PANAMATIK Wrote:  I think I have a quite original emulation without extras. I thought over, that there would be no problem to include programs save to and load from file as ASCII readable and editable. Of course it will be free to download for all of you.

Need a few days, though.

Hello Dieter,

I released the HP-67 emulator for windows. You can see a screenshot and download the executable from HP-67 Emulator

Have fun!

Bernhard

That's one small step for a man - one giant leap for mankind.
06-07-2016, 06:27 PM
Post: #20
 rprosperi Senior Member Posts: 4,953 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Some assorted HP67/97 questions
(06-07-2016 05:50 PM)PANAMATIK Wrote:  I released the HP-67 emulator for windows....
Have fun!
Bernhard

Amazing feat Bernhard, thanks for sharing this!

Hint to users: Pull the right window border out to expose the Load/Save buttons.

I expect folks to comment that the size is a bit too small to easily read on hi-res monitors... though it may simply be my eyes.

--Bob Prosperi
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