Some assorted HP67/97 questions
06-07-2016, 06:39 PM (This post was last modified: 06-07-2016 07:37 PM by PANAMATIK.)
Post: #21
 PANAMATIK Senior Member Posts: 1,023 Joined: Oct 2014
RE: Some assorted HP67/97 questions
(06-07-2016 06:27 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  I expect folks to comment that the size is a bit too small to easily read on hi-res monitors... though it may simply be my eyes.

What do you think would be the best size? I admit, especially the black button labels are difficult to read.

But you can change the image. If you provide an image file named "hp67.bmp" this will replace the built in image and the window size will be set according to the image size.

Bernhard

That's one small step for a man - one giant leap for mankind.
06-07-2016, 08:35 PM
Post: #22
 Dieter Senior Member Posts: 2,397 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Some assorted HP67/97 questions
First of all: thank you very much for this nice (and very compact) HP67 emulator. It kooks great and it's easy to use.

(06-07-2016 06:39 PM)PANAMATIK Wrote:  What do you think would be the best size? I admit, especially the black button labels are difficult to read.

Most computer displays today offer Full HD resolution and more. Especially some Laptops might still have less than that, so I think a height of 700 or 800 pixels should be fine.

Hmmm... let's say the size of the calculator should approximately match the real thing. Maybe a bit larger. What is the actual size of the portion show in the bitmap file? Something like 7x14 cm? Assuming an average display resolution around 90...120 dpi this translates to a height about 500...700 pixels. So 350x700 seems to be fine.

(06-07-2016 06:39 PM)PANAMATIK Wrote:  But you can change the image. If you provide an image file named "hp67.bmp" this will replace the built in image and the window size will be set according to the image size.

What is the correct aspect ratio of the bitmap file? Is it exactly 2:1? Seems to be something close to 200x400 now.

I did a very quick and dirty test with an upscaled screenshot of the emulator, and yes, it worked... for the calculator itself, but not for the display: the display font was not scaled up so that you see a tiny number in a big display. #-)

Apropos... this emulator simply must use a 7-segment display font. If this could be possible...?

The website says "You can use fast keyboard entry instead of mouse clicks." Great! But I can't find any info on the keyboard mapping. Actually it seems to work "mouse only" – there is no key (on the computer keyboard) that shows any effect. ?!?

Again, thank you very much. Just a few changes could make this great emulator even greater.

Dieter
06-07-2016, 09:17 PM
Post: #23
 rprosperi Senior Member Posts: 4,947 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Some assorted HP67/97 questions
(06-07-2016 06:39 PM)PANAMATIK Wrote:  What do you think would be the best size? I admit, especially the black button labels are difficult to read.

But you can change the image. If you provide an image file named "hp67.bmp" this will replace the built in image and the window size will be set according to the image size.

Bernhard

On my monitor (1680 x 1050), I would estimate 1.5-2 x larger would be best for ease of reading. That said, it is small enough as it is to keep it running all the time.

I agree, the black labels on the slanted front face of the keys are quite difficult to make out.

If one supplies a new image file as you suggest, are all the key sizes/locations simply calculated as some percentage of the dimensions of the new image? If so, what is the correct size ratio (height : width) for a new image?

Lastly, it's nice that the "card data" is a simple text file, very easy to understand the format and modify programs. For entering a new program via file input, does the source file have to have the exact number of lines (99 I assume) or could it have more or less lines and load without problem?

--Bob Prosperi
06-07-2016, 10:03 PM
Post: #24
 PANAMATIK Senior Member Posts: 1,023 Joined: Oct 2014
RE: Some assorted HP67/97 questions
Hello Dieter and rprosperi

OMG, indeed I forgot to adjust the display font size. There is some more work to do the next day. Too late for today.

The aspect ratio is 1:2 (exactly 200:405) but there is some tolerance.

At the moment the key entry is not yet working. The key mapping will be as follows.

Code:
 'A', 'B', 'C', 'D', 'E', '#', 'O', 'P', 'i', 'T', 'f', 'g', 'S', 'R', 'h', 'RETURN', '_', 'X','Backspace', '-', '7', '8', '9', '+', '4', '5', '6', '*', '1', '2', '3', '/', '0', '.', '=',

The keys are not case sensitive. This allows best performance without need for the shift key.

Normally the key is the first letter like R for RCL and S for STO key. But for SST key DSP key and GTO key these were already used. I decided to take the next free letters. "T" for SST, "O" for GTO and "P" for DSP.

That's one small step for a man - one giant leap for mankind.
06-07-2016, 10:08 PM
Post: #25
 PANAMATIK Senior Member Posts: 1,023 Joined: Oct 2014
RE: Some assorted HP67/97 questions
(06-07-2016 09:17 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  Lastly, it's nice that the "card data" is a simple text file, very easy to understand the format and modify programs. For entering a new program via file input, does the source file have to have the exact number of lines (99 I assume) or could it have more or less lines and load without problem?

The program steps must be enclosed between PROGRAM and END keywords.
The source file can have any number of steps less or equal 224 before END is encountered. If it is more, you will get an error message. Also syntax errors like wrong mnemonics will be reported and another message occurs if the keyword PROGRAM is not found.

Bernhard

That's one small step for a man - one giant leap for mankind.
06-07-2016, 10:16 PM (This post was last modified: 06-07-2016 10:17 PM by Dieter.)
Post: #26
 Dieter Senior Member Posts: 2,397 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Some assorted HP67/97 questions
(06-07-2016 09:17 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  On my monitor (1680 x 1050), I would estimate 1.5-2 x larger would be best for ease of reading. That said, it is small enough as it is to keep it running all the time.

Since the current bitmap is 200x400, this would mean a height of 600...800 pixels. So we seem to agree here. ;-)

(06-07-2016 09:17 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  If one supplies a new image file as you suggest, are all the key sizes/locations simply calculated as some percentage of the dimensions of the new image? If so, what is the correct size ratio (height : width) for a new image?

Looks like 2:1. But a new image file with the same aspect ratio does not neccessarily mean that the keys are also placed at exactly the same relative position as in the original smaller file. And there also may be an issue with the display which does not seem to get enlarged.

What about placing an HP67 on a usual flatbed scanner, scan it at 300 dpi (which is several times what's required) and finally reduce the image dimensions to your display resolution? This way the size matches the real device. However, I'd prefer it somewhat bigger. 350x700 or 400x800 pixels are fine by me.

(06-07-2016 09:17 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  Lastly, it's nice that the "card data" is a simple text file, very easy to understand the format and modify programs. For entering a new program via file input, does the source file have to have the exact number of lines (99 I assume) or could it have more or less lines and load without problem?

GTO . 000 and press h BST. You see the last step in memory, that's step 224.

BTW I had a few problems: SST does not seem to display the next step when held down, and in some cases SST made the program run (as if R/S had been pressed). In another case I could not stop a running program – exiting the emulator was the only solution.

Dieter
06-07-2016, 10:27 PM
Post: #27
 PANAMATIK Senior Member Posts: 1,023 Joined: Oct 2014
RE: Some assorted HP67/97 questions
(06-07-2016 10:16 PM)Dieter Wrote:  BTW I had a few problems: SST does not seem to display the next step when held down, and in some cases SST made the program run (as if R/S had been pressed). In another case I could not stop a running program – exiting the emulator was the only solution.

Dieter

I will address this SST problem tomorrow.

The actual version now accepts keyboard entry.

Bernhard

That's one small step for a man - one giant leap for mankind.
06-07-2016, 10:28 PM (This post was last modified: 06-07-2016 10:28 PM by Dieter.)
Post: #28
 Dieter Senior Member Posts: 2,397 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Some assorted HP67/97 questions
(06-07-2016 10:03 PM)PANAMATIK Wrote:  OMG, indeed I forgot to adjust the display font size. There is some more work to do the next day. Too late for today.

Great. Do you already have a 7-segment display font ?-)

(06-07-2016 10:03 PM)PANAMATIK Wrote:  At the moment the key entry is not yet working. The key mapping will be as follows.

Code:
'A', 'B', 'C', 'D', 'E', '#', 'O', 'P', 'i', 'T', 'f', 'g', 'S', 'R', 'h', 'RETURN', '_', 'X','Backspace', '-', '7', '8', '9', '+', '4', '5', '6', '*', '1', '2', '3', '/', '0', '.', '=',

The keys are not case sensitive. This allows best performance without need for the shift key.

Hmmm... at least on my keyboard the underscore (for CHS) and "=" (for R/S) are shifted. ;-) What about an "N" for "negative"? Or the space bar for R/S and the cursor keys for SST and BST? Maybe as a second option so that both alternatives can be used.

Dieter
06-07-2016, 10:36 PM
Post: #29
 PANAMATIK Senior Member Posts: 1,023 Joined: Oct 2014
RE: Some assorted HP67/97 questions
(06-07-2016 10:28 PM)Dieter Wrote:  Hmmm... at least on my keyboard the underscore (for CHS) and "=" (for R/S) are shifted. ;-) What about an "N" for "negative"? Or the space bar for R/S and the cursor keys for SST and BST? Maybe as a second option so that both alternatives can be used.

Dieter

I dont have a 7-segment font. It should be non proprtional and very close to the HP-67. Do you have one?

OK 'N' for negative is a good idea and I will also use the cursor keys in the next version.

Bernhard

That's one small step for a man - one giant leap for mankind.
06-07-2016, 10:40 PM
Post: #30
 Dieter Senior Member Posts: 2,397 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Some assorted HP67/97 questions
(06-07-2016 10:08 PM)PANAMATIK Wrote:  The program steps must be enclosed between PROGRAM and END keywords.

Hmmm.... maybe in the far, far future there could be also a DATA END section which could simulate the functionality of data cards. ;-) Since numeric values in a program require one step per digit, sign and decimal point, this would be a great improvement for any program that uses numeric constants.

(06-07-2016 10:08 PM)PANAMATIK Wrote:  Also syntax errors like wrong mnemonics will be reported and another message occurs if the keyword PROGRAM is not found.

Yes, I noticed this when I tried to insert an x<>0? instruction. Eventually I found out that the "?" is omitted in the test commands (why?) and that x!=0 was correct here. Since at the moment there is no overview of the valid mnemonics one could write a program that contains all commands, save it and see what's in the text file. This way you can find out what to enter for x-bar, Sigma+ or the inverse trig functions. ;-)

BTW, at the moment CL REGS shows up as "CL" instead of "CLRG" or something like that.

Dieter
06-07-2016, 10:49 PM
Post: #31
 PANAMATIK Senior Member Posts: 1,023 Joined: Oct 2014
RE: Some assorted HP67/97 questions
(06-07-2016 10:40 PM)Dieter Wrote:  Hmmm.... maybe in the far, far future there could be also a DATA END section which could simulate the functionality of data cards. ;-) Since numeric values in a program require one step per digit, sign and decimal point, this would be a great improvement for any program that uses numeric constants.

Dieter

I think there will be a DATA END section rather in the near, near future.

Bernhard

That's one small step for a man - one giant leap for mankind.
06-07-2016, 10:52 PM (This post was last modified: 06-07-2016 10:53 PM by Massimo Gnerucci.)
Post: #32
 Massimo Gnerucci Senior Member Posts: 2,329 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Some assorted HP67/97 questions
(06-07-2016 10:36 PM)PANAMATIK Wrote:  I dont have a 7-segment font. It should be non proprtional and very close to the HP-67. Do you have one?

You could try the old HP fonts by Luiz C. Vieira (Hi Luiz!)

Greetings,
Massimo

-+×÷ ↔ left is right and right is wrong
06-07-2016, 11:04 PM
Post: #33
 Dieter Senior Member Posts: 2,397 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Some assorted HP67/97 questions
(06-07-2016 10:36 PM)PANAMATIK Wrote:  I dont have a 7-segment font. It should be non proprtional and very close to the HP-67. Do you have one?

I am using the "HP 15C simulator font" here and there. But there are lots of free 7-segment fonts around, for instance here: Take a look at the digital 7 font (right on top) which is also available in a "fixed" version. You can see it in the third and fourth line here. Just as the real thing, the decimal point takes a full segment/character width. Only the "7" does not exactly match the 67 display.

(06-07-2016 10:36 PM)PANAMATIK Wrote:  OK 'N' for negative is a good idea and I will also use the cursor keys in the next version.

Great, thank you!

Dieter
06-07-2016, 11:17 PM (This post was last modified: 06-07-2016 11:28 PM by Dieter.)
Post: #34
 Dieter Senior Member Posts: 2,397 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Some assorted HP67/97 questions
(06-07-2016 10:52 PM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote:  You could try the old HP fonts by Luiz C. Vieira (Hi Luiz!)

Among these there is a "LEDcharset_class" font file which also includes the centered and slighty raised decimal point. The corresponding character is the semicolon ";". A lowercase d ("Crd") is entered as a capital D. The result looks very realistic, it even gets the "7" right:

Maybe this is the preferred choice.

Dieter
06-08-2016, 06:39 AM
Post: #35
 Massimo Gnerucci Senior Member Posts: 2,329 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Some assorted HP67/97 questions
(06-07-2016 11:17 PM)Dieter Wrote:  Among these there is a "LEDcharset_class" font file which also includes the centered and slighty raised decimal point. The corresponding character is the semicolon ";". A lowercase d ("Crd") is entered as a capital D. The result looks very realistic, it even gets the "7" right:

Yes, that is the font I was referring to. Luiz did a really good job using CorelDRAW! to make all those fonts.

Greetings,
Massimo

-+×÷ ↔ left is right and right is wrong
06-08-2016, 05:16 PM (This post was last modified: 06-10-2016 07:08 PM by PANAMATIK.)
Post: #36
 PANAMATIK Senior Member Posts: 1,023 Joined: Oct 2014
RE: Some assorted HP67/97 questions
(06-07-2016 11:17 PM)Dieter Wrote:  Among these there is a "LEDcharset_class" font file which also includes the centered and slighty raised decimal point. The corresponding character is the semicolon ";". A lowercase d ("Crd") is entered as a capital D. The result looks very realistic, it even gets the "7" right:

The Release 1.01 is ready for download HP-67 Emulator. I used the "Luiz font", it looks nice indeed.

There is also a short instruction manual and images of different sizes. And of course a DATA section. R/S and SST are also working now. It was a whole days work, but I will be glad if the result is acceptable for you guys.

Bernhard

That's one small step for a man - one giant leap for mankind.
06-08-2016, 06:04 PM
Post: #37
 rprosperi Senior Member Posts: 4,947 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Some assorted HP67/97 questions
(06-08-2016 05:16 PM)PANAMATIK Wrote:  The Release 1.01 is ready for download HP-67 Emulator. I used the "Luiz font", it looks nice indeed.

There is also a short instruction manual and images of different sizes. And of course a DATA section. R/S and SST are also working now. It was a whole days work, but I will be glad if the result is acceptable for you guys.

Bernhard

A new day, a new emulator from Panamatik... Amazing.

The 330 sized image is best for my eyes and screen - thanks for making that quite easy.

To me, the font appears the same, it is not a 7-segment font. Also, the radix is shown as a semicolon (";") rather than the expected period.

Thanks Bernhard!

--Bob Prosperi
06-08-2016, 06:23 PM
Post: #38
 Massimo Gnerucci Senior Member Posts: 2,329 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: Some assorted HP67/97 questions
(06-08-2016 06:04 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  To me, the font appears the same, it is not a 7-segment font. Also, the radix is shown as a semicolon (";") rather than the expected period.

Thanks Bernhard!

There's no installation, hence you'll find the right font only if you already installed it... ;-)

Then, try again!

Greetings,
Massimo

-+×÷ ↔ left is right and right is wrong
06-08-2016, 06:46 PM
Post: #39
 PANAMATIK Senior Member Posts: 1,023 Joined: Oct 2014
RE: Some assorted HP67/97 questions
(06-08-2016 06:23 PM)Massimo Gnerucci Wrote:  There's no installation, hence you'll find the right font only if you already installed it... ;-)

Then, try again!

Yes, that is the way to do it.

I wish, I could have included the "Luiz font" in the.exe file, but I don't know how to do that.

Bernhard

That's one small step for a man - one giant leap for mankind.
06-08-2016, 07:04 PM (This post was last modified: 06-10-2016 07:09 PM by PANAMATIK.)
Post: #40
 PANAMATIK Senior Member Posts: 1,023 Joined: Oct 2014
RE: Some assorted HP67/97 questions
(06-08-2016 06:04 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  A new day, a new emulator from Panamatik... Amazing.

Thanks Bernhard!

A new day and two new emulators. Have a look also to the HP-25 Emulator, just released.

Bernhard

That's one small step for a man - one giant leap for mankind.
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