The DM41L is here!
12-13-2015, 05:07 AM
Post: #1
 Namir Senior Member Posts: 688 Joined: Dec 2013
The DM41L is here!
I received the DM41L from Swiss Micros. The machine is very nice. The keys work well and the LCD is nice. Since the DM41L has an HP-15C shape it will take you a little while to locate the keys. I wrote a compact Simpson Rule integration program with the DM41L (see the HP-41 Software section). I am very happy with my purchase. Thank you Michael for a good job.

Namir
12-13-2015, 08:41 AM (This post was last modified: 12-13-2015 12:40 PM by Ángel Martin.)
Post: #2
 Ángel Martin Senior Member Posts: 1,070 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: The DM41L is here!
I got a DM41L as an early Xmas gift and for the most part am favorably surprised - a valuable effort worth praising, even if in my opinion there are a few weak points such as:

- the LCD annunciators are too large and take up too much real state
- as a consequence the normal LCD area looks "displaced" to the top of the window
- LCD characters are a tad too thin - I guess i miss the segments!
- the SHIFTed key legends are too small, very hard to read for the most part and also slightly displaced above the keys.

On the bright side, the (mechanical) key response works reliably so far - just 3 days on the bench - hope it holds in the future. Surprisingly (since I was predisposed to dislike it) the lack of slanted keys does not bother me at all - the solution implemented works quite nicely.

The keyboard layout is a good compromise to adjust the original (perfection in my book) to the landscape format. I like the time functions being there but it's perplexing to see CORR and T+X chosen over other more frequently used ones, like YMD or CLK24...

Of course all these are just subjective and may have nothing to do with your own appreciation of the unit. After all, there's no telling to taste...

If the USB connection could be used to upload/download ROMs this would be a glorious product - is the technology required really that hard to make this happen??

Cheers,
'AM
12-13-2015, 01:46 PM
Post: #3
 Marcus von Cube Senior Member Posts: 760 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: The DM41L is here!
I made myself two Christmas gifts, too: a DM41L and a DM16L. Comparing the DM41L with a HP41 is interesting:

The DM keyboard is remapped, but when ASsigNing keys, the key codes seem to be the ones of the original, i. e. XEQ is 33, not 32 and SST is 35, not 34 as could be expected from the keyboard position. CAT 6 scrolls much to fast to be useful. I guess Michael hasn't modified the delay for this catalog. An overlay might help or at least some documentation on his web site.

Marcus von Cube
Wehrheim, Germany
http://www.mvcsys.de
http://wp34s.sf.net
http://mvcsys.de/doc/basic-compare.html
12-13-2015, 02:57 PM
Post: #4
 rprosperi Senior Member Posts: 3,767 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: The DM41L is here!
(12-13-2015 08:41 AM)Ángel Martin Wrote:  - as a consequence the normal LCD area looks "displaced" to the top of the window
- LCD characters are a tad too thin - I guess i miss the segments!

Angel - I've only the DM-15L so far, so can't weigh-in on the DM-41L specifically, but I agree with many of your observations.

Regarding the 'shifted' display, it's a little annoying when analyzing the machine's design, but I find I don't really notice it when actually using the machine.

Regarding the font, changing it to MEDIUM (you can toggle using [ON]+[7]) made a big difference for my eyes; much more satisfying, though the segmented 41 characters are indeed missed.

--Bob Prosperi
12-13-2015, 04:01 PM
Post: #5
 Marcus von Cube Senior Member Posts: 760 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: The DM41L is here!
(12-13-2015 02:57 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  Regarding the font, changing it to MEDIUM (you can toggle using [ON]+[7]) made a big difference for my eyes; much more satisfying, though the segmented 41 characters are indeed missed.
This feature is not available on the DM41(L).

Marcus von Cube
Wehrheim, Germany
http://www.mvcsys.de
http://wp34s.sf.net
http://mvcsys.de/doc/basic-compare.html
12-13-2015, 04:07 PM
Post: #6
 rprosperi Senior Member Posts: 3,767 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: The DM41L is here!
(12-13-2015 04:01 PM)Marcus von Cube Wrote:
(12-13-2015 02:57 PM)rprosperi Wrote:  Regarding the font, changing it to MEDIUM (you can toggle using [ON]+[7]) made a big difference for my eyes; much more satisfying, though the segmented 41 characters are indeed missed.
This feature is not available on the DM41(L).

Oops - sorry for bad advice. No doubt display font is limited due to the more complex 41 charset.

--Bob Prosperi
12-13-2015, 08:41 PM
Post: #7
 Helix Member Posts: 198 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: The DM41L is here!
According to this benchmark, the speed of the DM41 is similar to the speed of the HP 41:
Is there an increase of speed with the DM41L?

Jean-Charles
12-16-2015, 07:21 PM
Post: #8
 Dave Britten Senior Member Posts: 1,324 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: The DM41L is here!
More importantly, how did I miss the unveiling of the 16L??? Might have to get one of those soonish.
12-17-2015, 03:29 PM
Post: #9
 Marcus von Cube Senior Member Posts: 760 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: The DM41L is here!
(12-13-2015 08:41 PM)Helix Wrote:  According to this benchmark, the speed of the DM41 is similar to the speed of the HP 41:
Is there an increase of speed with the DM41L?

Obviously not... I can only speculate about the reasons but it might be the display update while the program is running. Only the designers can tell.

Marcus von Cube
Wehrheim, Germany
http://www.mvcsys.de
http://wp34s.sf.net
http://mvcsys.de/doc/basic-compare.html
12-17-2015, 05:46 PM
Post: #10
 toml_12953 Senior Member Posts: 1,284 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: The DM41L is here!
(12-13-2015 08:41 PM)Helix Wrote:  According to this benchmark, the speed of the DM41 is similar to the speed of the HP 41:
Is there an increase of speed with the DM41L?

You can run it at 12 MHz or 48 MHz. I don't know how it benchmarks against the original, though.

Tom L
DM-41L S/N 00088

Tom L
My wife's judgement is much better than mine.
Look who we each married!
12-17-2015, 06:19 PM
Post: #11
 Helix Member Posts: 198 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: The DM41L is here!
Thank you. So I suppose that the L versions use the same electronics than the credit card versions, the main differences being the size and the keyboard.

Jean-Charles
12-17-2015, 06:38 PM (This post was last modified: 12-17-2015 07:14 PM by toml_12953.)
Post: #12
 toml_12953 Senior Member Posts: 1,284 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: The DM41L is here!
(12-13-2015 08:41 PM)Helix Wrote:  According to this benchmark, the speed of the DM41 is similar to the speed of the HP 41:
Is there an increase of speed with the DM41L?

How do you enter "X<>Y?" into a program? I can find it in CAT 3 but can't enter it into the program. As you can tell, I'm a complete noob with the 41 series. The 65/67 series is more my speed.

Tom L

Tom L
My wife's judgement is much better than mine.
Look who we each married!
12-17-2015, 07:21 PM
Post: #13
 Didier Lachieze Senior Member Posts: 1,149 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: The DM41L is here!
(12-17-2015 06:38 PM)toml_12953 Wrote:  How do you enter "X<>Y?" into a program? I can find it in CAT 3 but can't enter it into the program.

XEQ Alpha X shift SIN Y ? Alpha

All commands not on the keyboard have to be entered with XEQ. Frequently used commands can be assigned to any key in User mode with ASN.
12-17-2015, 07:34 PM
Post: #14
 toml_12953 Senior Member Posts: 1,284 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: The DM41L is here!
(12-17-2015 07:21 PM)Didier Lachieze Wrote:
(12-17-2015 06:38 PM)toml_12953 Wrote:  How do you enter "X<>Y?" into a program? I can find it in CAT 3 but can't enter it into the program.

XEQ Alpha X shift SIN Y ? Alpha

All commands not on the keyboard have to be entered with XEQ. Frequently used commands can be assigned to any key in User mode with ASN.

Thanks! I was going crazy trying to find a way to enter the function from the CAT menu.

Tom L

Tom L
My wife's judgement is much better than mine.
Look who we each married!
12-18-2015, 01:18 PM (This post was last modified: 12-18-2015 01:21 PM by toml_12953.)
Post: #15
 toml_12953 Senior Member Posts: 1,284 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: The DM41L is here!
(12-13-2015 08:41 PM)Helix Wrote:  According to this benchmark, the speed of the DM41 is similar to the speed of the HP 41:
Is there an increase of speed with the DM41L?

Now that I know how to enter keyboard functions into a program (Grace à monsieur Lachieze!), I have entered the benchmark program. My DM-41L runs it in 14.6 minutes. That's slower than the list of benchmark times shows (11 min).

Tom L

Tom L
My wife's judgement is much better than mine.
Look who we each married!
12-18-2015, 04:00 PM
Post: #16
 Marcus von Cube Senior Member Posts: 760 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: The DM41L is here!
(12-18-2015 01:18 PM)toml_12953 Wrote:  My DM-41L runs it in 14.6 minutes. That's slower than the list of benchmark times shows (11 min).

Are you sure?

Code:
...  -   26:42         DM-41             Keystroke / RPN / @ 12 MHz ...  -   15:52         DM-41             Keystroke / RPN / @ 48 MHz ...

Marcus von Cube
Wehrheim, Germany
http://www.mvcsys.de
http://wp34s.sf.net
http://mvcsys.de/doc/basic-compare.html
12-18-2015, 07:21 PM
Post: #17
 toml_12953 Senior Member Posts: 1,284 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: The DM41L is here!
(12-18-2015 04:00 PM)Marcus von Cube Wrote:
(12-18-2015 01:18 PM)toml_12953 Wrote:  My DM-41L runs it in 14.6 minutes. That's slower than the list of benchmark times shows (11 min).

Are you sure?

Code:
...  -   26:42         DM-41             Keystroke / RPN / @ 12 MHz ...  -   15:52         DM-41             Keystroke / RPN / @ 48 MHz ...

You're right. I was looking at this line:
11.0 HP-41CX Mcode / NUT @ 0.36 MHz

So it would appear that my calculator is a little faster than the one used for the benchmark.

Tom L

Tom L
My wife's judgement is much better than mine.
Look who we each married!
12-31-2015, 11:22 AM
Post: #18
 WaltMaken Junior Member Posts: 3 Joined: Dec 2015
RE: The DM41L is here!
Re the question "How do you enter "X<>Y" into a program?

When the DM41L (or DM41) is in the PRGM mode, just press the "X<>Y" key (first key in the second row).
12-31-2015, 01:06 PM
Post: #19
 toml_12953 Senior Member Posts: 1,284 Joined: Dec 2013
RE: The DM41L is here!
(12-31-2015 11:22 AM)WaltMaken Wrote:  Re the question "How do you enter "X<>Y" into a program?

When the DM41L (or DM41) is in the PRGM mode, just press the "X<>Y" key (first key in the second row).

Sorry, I meant the test "x≠y" but I couldn't find the code to enter it so my BASIC training took over.

Tom L

Tom L
My wife's judgement is much better than mine.
Look who we each married!
12-31-2015, 01:39 PM
Post: #20
 WaltMaken Junior Member Posts: 3 Joined: Dec 2015
RE: The DM41L is here!
Regarding the layout of the DM41L and DM41 keyboards.

I've seen some comments about the difficulty in finding the DM41L keys on the horizontal keyboard arrangement. Also I've seen comments that mentioned a concern that the operator keys on the DM41's were on the left of the number keys instead of on the right of the number keys as per the HP-15C, etc. For those who first became acquainted with HP calculators with the advent of the horizontal layout of the HP-15C, etc, I can understand those concerns.

However, as a long term user of the vertical format HP calculators (HP-65, HP-67, HP-41CX), I definitely like the way the HP-41CX keyboard layout has been adapted into the horizontal HP-15C style. If you look at the HP-41CX, and compare it to the DM41's you'll note that the functions of the two top rows of the HP-41CX (including the alpha characters) have been duplicated in the first 5 columns of the two top rows of the DM41's. And if you look at the operators (-, +. x. /) and numbers on the HP-41CX, you see that the operators are on the left of the numbers and that on the DM41's the operators are likewise on the left of the numbers. Further, on the DM41's the face and shifted functions of the last 4 columns of each of the 4 rows duplicate the face and shifted functions of the bottom 4 rows of the HP-41CX. The alpha characters assigned to the last 4 columns of each of the 4 rows were, of necessity, revised from their key locations on the HP-41CX. The key (no pun intended) to better understanding those revised alpha character locations is the vertical divider line that separates the first 5 columns from the last 5 columns on the DM41's. That divider line serves as a nice reminder that the default functions of the keys of the first five columns of the top two rows of the DM41's duplicate the default functions of the keys of the top two rows of the HP-41CX. That vertical divider line also serves both as a "carriage return" for the alpha characters of the first 5 columns of the top two rows of the DM41's as well as a "left margin" for the alpha characters of the last 5 columns of all 4 rows of keys.

Further note that the ON, gold, blue, STO, RCL, ENTER, and back arrow keys on the DM41's are in the same location as those same keys are on the DM15's, giving a bit of familiarity to those who began their HP calculator journey with the horizontal layouts of the Voyager series, instead of with the vertical layouts of the HP calculators that preceded the Voyagers.

Definitely hats off to Michael for bringing both the credit card and L model sized RPN's as well as now the L models, to market. I have bought both the DM41 as well as the DM41L and really like both of them. I especially like the long-life button batteries instead of the N batteries required for the HP-41CX.
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