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HP-12C: The longest production run in the industry?
11-22-2015, 01:31 PM (This post was last modified: 11-26-2015 08:54 AM by jebem.)
Post: #1
HP-12C: The longest production run in the industry?
(Updated "HP-12C_variants V0.5" document)

I like a good mystery (or absence of information in this case) to talk about and investigate when one is in the mood and have time to spend on that.

So I have compiled a small table with the HP-12C variants, using the public available information here and there and crossing it for validation.
I'm sure it contains errors as a result of this investigation process, but it can be updated when more trusted information comes around.

Note:
This listing may not be up to date.
Please use the attached word documents for more detailed and updated information.


Code:


From HP:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#  Model            P/N     Years    Features                 CPU                           Clock   Execution        F/W   IO-plug Power-Supply    Speed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1  12C              F1637A? 81-88?   RPN, 20R, 100S           1LF5 (HP NUT)                 884KHz  Native           ROM           4.5V (3xLR44)   x1
2  12C              F1637A? 81?-88?  RPN, 20R, 100S           1LM2 (HP NUT)                 884KHz  Native           ROM           4.5V (3xLR44)   x1
3  12C              F1637A? 88-01?   RPN, 20R, 100S           1LQ9 (HP NUT)                 884KHz  Native           ROM           4.5V (3xLR44)   x1
4  12C              F1637A? 95-01?   RPN, 20R, 100S           1RR2 (HP NUT)                 884KHz  Native           ROM           4.5V (3xLR44)   x1
5  12C              ?       99?-07   RPN, 20R, 100S           Agilent 2AF1-0001 (HP NUT)    884KHz  Native           ROM           3V (1xCR2032)   x1
6  12C              ?       01?-07   RPN, 20R, 100S           Marvell 2AF1-0002 (HP NUT)    884KHz  Native           ROM           3V (1xCR2032)   x1
7  12C Platinum     F2231A  03-05?   RPN,ALG,30R,400S,+digits Sunplus SPLB20D2 (6502)       ~1MHz   Native,upd.specs ROM           3V (1xCR2032)   x1.5?
8  12C Plat.(v2)    F2232A  05?-10?  RPN,ALG,(),BS,80R,400S   Generalplus GPLB31A (6502)    ~4MHz   Native,upd.specs ROM           3V (1xCR2032)   x6?
9  12C Prestige     F2233A  06-?     RPN,ALG,(),BS,80R,400S   Generalplus GPLB31A (6502)    ~4MHz   Native,upd.specs ROM           3V (1xCR2032)   x6?
10 12C Plat.25th AE F2231AA 06-08?   RPN,ALG,(),BS,80R,400S   Generalplus GPLB31A (6502)    ~4MHz   Native,upd.specs ROM           3V (1xCR2032)   x6?
11 12C (+, v1)      F2230A  08-?     RPN, 20R, 100S           Atmel AT91SAM7L128 (ARM7DTMI) ~36MHz  Emulated HP NUT  FLASH 6p(ser) 3V (2xCR2032)   x60
12 12C Plat.(v3)    F2232A  10-?     RPN,ALG,(),BS,80R,400S   Generalplus GPLB31A (6502)    ~4MHz   Native,upd.specs ROM           3V (2xCR2032)   x6?
13 12C 30th AE LE   NW258AA 2011     RPN, 20R, 100S           Atmel AT91SAM7L128 (ARM7DTMI) ~36MHz  Emulated HP NUT  FLASH 6p(ser) 3V (2xCR2032)   x60
14 12C (+, v2)      F2230A? 2015-    RPN, 20R, 100S           Atmel ATSAM4LC2C (Cortex-M4)  ~48MHz  Emulated HP NUT  FLASH 6p(usb) 3V (2xCR2032)   x60?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3rd party (Clones):
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#  Model            P/N     Years    Features                CPU                           Clock    Execution        F/W   IO-plug Power-Supply    Speed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
15 Aurora FN1000            2003     Clamshell based on 12C                                         Native,custom Specs                              
16 Truly SC123              2005     Vertical based on 12CP                                         Native,custom Specs                                 
17 Victor V12               ?        Based on 12C Plat.25thAE                                       Native,custom Specs                           
18 BrtC FC-12               ?        Based on 12CP 25thAE                                           Native,custom Specs                              
19 Compucessory CCS28956    2010     Clamshell based on 12CP                                        Native,custom Specs                         
20 SwissMicros DM-12CC      2012     Based on 12C, USB        NXP LPC1114 (ARM Cortex-M0)   ~48MHz  Emulated HP NUT  FLASH USB     3V (1xCR2032)   x30
21 SwissMicros DM-12        2013?    Based on 12C, USB        NXP LPC1115 (ARM Cortex-M0)   ~48MHz  Emulated HP NUT  FLASH USB     3V (1xCR2032)   x30
22 SwissMicros DM-12 SE     2014?    Based on 12C, USB        NXP LPC1115 (ARM Cortex-M0)   ~48MHz  Emulated HP NUT  FLASH USB     3V (1xCR2032)   x30
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reference sources:
1.- Eric Smith's HP Voyager Calculator Variants;
2.- Wikipedia's HP-12C;
3.- Official HP Calculators site;
4.- The Museum of HP Calculators;
5.- Katie Wasserman, Marcus, Matthias and other valuable contributors in this MoHPC forums, like these ones:
5.1.- Is the 12C SDK still available?;
5.2.- New HP-12C Review;
5.3.- HP12c re purposing project;
5.4.- JTAG on HP-12C and HP-15C LE;
5.5.- Wiki HP-12c (ARM variant) Repurposing Information;
5.6.- HP 12c Platinum;
5.7.- More on the new 12C;
5.8.- Best 12C models and how to identify them;
5.9.- Gene's Calculator Benchmark: Loops of addition;
5.10.- Frustrating HP 12C;
5.11.- HP-12C Platinum Version 02 calculator from 2010 week 21?;
6.- The Calculator Store's HP12c_new_vs_old;
7.- Persistent Technology;
8.- My own calculator direct observations;


As Bob has suggested, I have created a word document in order to facilitate the edition process. Here it is:


Attached File(s)
.docx  HP-12C_variants_V0.4.docx (Size: 33.81 KB / Downloads: 26)
.docx  HP-12C_variants_V0.5.docx (Size: 43.47 KB / Downloads: 71)

Jose Mesquita
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11-22-2015, 02:31 PM (This post was last modified: 12-23-2015 12:24 AM by Marcio.)
Post: #2
RE: HP-12C: The longest production run in the industry?
Amazing work!

Should get one (the RPN-only version) to make company to my 15c.

Marcio
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11-22-2015, 04:17 PM
Post: #3
RE: HP-12C: The longest production run in the industry?
(11-22-2015 01:31 PM)jebem Wrote:  I like a good mystery (or absence of information in this case) to talk about and investigate when one is in the mood and have time to spend on that.

Fantastic work!

I need to go over this in detail to see if I have anything else I can think of to add...

-katie

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11-22-2015, 05:31 PM
Post: #4
RE: HP-12C: The longest production run in the industry?
(11-22-2015 01:31 PM)jebem Wrote:  So I have compiled a small table with the HP-12C variants, using the public available information here and there and crossing it for validation.
I'm sure it contains errors as a result of this investigation process, but it can be updated when more trusted information comes around.

Awesome job Jebem, thanks for compiling all the data and presenting it. Despite many folks typical reaction to pooh-pooh the lowly 12C, it's clear that interest remains high in this great machine, and will continue to. Despite all this great data, I suspect much more will come out of this post, and be added.

Assuming you create this in Word (or something similar), is it possible to post a copy in PDF? We can make one by copy/paste of course, but if you will maintain the master copy it makes sense to have a single master rather than many.

The newest version of the 12C is supposed to be in stores by now, so a little more investigation in a local Staples or Best Buy may reveal the new details. I will take a look this coming week (BEFORE Friday, thank you).

Here is another site with useful info you may not have seen: http://persistent-tech.blogspot.ca/2013/...ncial.html

Thanks again.

--Bob Prosperi
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11-22-2015, 06:05 PM
Post: #5
RE: HP-12C: The longest production run in the industry?
(11-22-2015 01:31 PM)jebem Wrote:  7 12C Platinum ... Sunplus SPLB20D2 (6502) ... Emulation?
11 12C (+, v1) ... Atmel AT91SAM7L128 (ARM7DTMI) ... Emulation.
The CP runs a reimplementation of the (updated) 12c specification. The math isn't exactly the same (more digits, different algorithms).
The C+ runs the original ROM on an emulated NUT processor and gives exactly the same results as the original 12C.

Marcus von Cube
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11-22-2015, 06:34 PM
Post: #6
RE: HP-12C: The longest production run in the industry?
Nice, thanks!

A few quick comments:

- The 2AF1-0001 is by Agilent. Regarding introduction date, I have read "late 1990s" and "1999", but don't know for sure.

- It's ARM7TDMI (thumb instruction, debugger, multiplier, ICE), not ARM7DTMI.

- Are the Prestige/Platinums really emulator-based? I thought they would run native code.

- The Truly SC123 popped up in 2015, not 2005.

- The SwissMicros were originally called DM-1xCC, but the names were shortened to DM-1x in January 2013.

Greetings,

Matthias


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"Programs are poems for computers."
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11-22-2015, 09:03 PM
Post: #7
RE: HP-12C: The longest production run in the industry?
Thank you all for the corrections!
I keep learning everyday here at the MoHPC.

I have incorporated them in the OP list and have added a word document that will be used from now on.
The original listing is not adequate to insert more detail easily and may not be updated.

Jose Mesquita
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11-22-2015, 10:23 PM
Post: #8
RE: HP-12C: The longest production run in the industry?
For all the CP clones you can copy the same information about the execution environment ("reimplementation")

The DM series runs the original ROM, in a very similar way to what the recent 12C does.

Marcus von Cube
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11-23-2015, 09:15 AM (This post was last modified: 11-23-2015 09:15 AM by emece67.)
Post: #9
RE: HP-12C: The longest production run in the industry?
Good work. Thanks a lot.

César - Information must flow.
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11-25-2015, 02:36 PM
Post: #10
RE: HP-12C: The longest production run in the industry?
An updated version 0.4 of the "HP-12C_Variants" document was attached in the OP, with information supplied by Dwight, Marcus, Matthias, Katie, Tim and Cyrille on the other post here.

Jose Mesquita
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11-26-2015, 08:55 AM
Post: #11
RE: HP-12C: The longest production run in the industry?
(11-25-2015 02:36 PM)jebem Wrote:  An updated version 0.4 of the "HP-12C_Variants" document was attached in the OP, with information supplied by Dwight, Marcus, Matthias, Katie, Tim and Cyrille on the other post here.

And version 0.5 is released (added firmware version for the 12C30thAE).

Jose Mesquita
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11-26-2015, 04:03 PM
Post: #12
RE: HP-12C: The longest production run in the industry?
Thanks Jose,

I was just wondering about this the other day. It shows what contortions manufacturers must go through to support a product line across the years.

It's even worse in industrial electronics/ automation where the customer's expectation is manufacturer support across the decades, not just the years.
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06-20-2018, 08:11 PM
Post: #13
RE: HP-12C: The longest production run in the industry?
Jose,

I have an update for this old thread and your 12C Variations document. The research you did to compile the data and prepare the documentation is really appreciated, I frequently use this to look up small details (dates, etc.) of the numerous 12C flavors.

The update(s) relate to the relative performance of the 12CP variants; your chart indeed shows some numbers but with a question mark to indicate uncertainty.

The earliest variant (the initial, silver-faced 12CP) performed about 6 x the speed of the original 12C, while 12CP Version-2 (the 2nd silver-faced variant with Undo and Backspace keys added), the Prestige, the 25th Ann Ed., and the later 2x2032 cell versions all perform about the same, at a bit less than three times the original 12C performance, about half of the original version.

While I've no evidence or documentation, I'd guess the key driver in the performance drop is the overhead for the UNDO function added in Version-2.

My results were obtained using the simplest (and not too accurate, but still useful) technique of manually timing a loop counter.

Program:

Code:
01 + [ 40 ]
02 GTO 001 [ 43,33,001]

Fill the stack with 1's, [f] [PRGM], then run the program for exactly 1 minute, noting the number of loops completed when done. (I just look at my watch's second hand).

Thanks again for sharing this nice resource.

--Bob Prosperi
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06-21-2018, 05:57 AM
Post: #14
RE: HP-12C: The longest production run in the industry?
Hello,

>The 2AF1-0001 is by Agilent. Regarding introduction date, I have read "late 1990s" and "1999", but don't know for sure

The guys that worked on it were doing so at the begining of my time at HP, so the project ranged from 1998 to around 1999. Then they moved to the 10BII...

>7 12C Platinum ... Sunplus SPLB20D2 (6502) ... Emulation?
Nope, the sunplus are a "brand new implementation" copying the original 12C UI. It is all C based. I do not remember if they use the math code that was developped for the 10BII or not.

cyrille

Although I work for the HP calculator group, the views and opinions I post here are my own. I do not speak for HP.
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